Topic: Revisions of Drawings - Titleblock attribute woes

[Bob]

I'm helping them.

They have a lot more experience with microstation. We are the first wing of the group with the software with AutoCAD so its a bit of a partnership.

[Bob]

Here is the title block in question.

One exploded, one not.

Attributes in question are :

R05,R10,R09,R07,R21 & R21

[hendie]

I'm helping them.

They have a lot more experience with microstation. We are the first wing of the group with the software with AutoCAD so its a bit of a partnership.

can I suggest you switch EDMS systems ?

seriously though, if they can't tell you what's going on and how to circumvent it, I wouldn't have much faith in them as a document management company. I mean, a revision is a pretty standard and common process and if they haven't managed to program that correctly, than that would be raising alarm bells with me.

Is it only those attribute values that it's deleting ? or is it all attribute values ?
If it's all attribute values I would guess it's a programming error, If it's only those attribute values then I would guess it's a setting somewhere.
How do you create the revision ? Is there a "create revision" function or do you copy a drawing and..[some other process here] ?

[M-dub]

How is the title block updated?  In AutoCAD or in your EDMS?  Those attribute prompts aren't the most descriptive beasts I've seen, but maybe everyone there is just used to it.

Next question, how important is it that your DB tracks the fields you're having problems with?  I mean, with our system, we have the option of going From the drawing TO Adept or From Adept TO the Drawing, but rarely do we ever go from the DB TO the drawing.  It's always the other way.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Hendie on this one... Sounds like a pretty Mickey Mouse system if YOU, the user are providing assistance to THEM, the "provider".

[Bob]

We have a workflow for all drawings

Preliminary -> Awaiting Checking -> Awaiting Approval -> Approved for manufacture -> Awaiting PI Number -> Released

Once a drawing is Released a PDF of the drawing is published onto the Drawing Viewing Software (which is immediately available to our plant engineers).

A new revision is created by right clicking on the drawing in the database. The software makes a copy of the drawing. The new drawing will be revision A and will be back in the Preliminary stage of the workflow. Then the drawing follows the approval route again.

Hope this is clear.

[Bob]

Sorry about the attribute tags.

The good thing is that they are backward compatible (all the way back to 1986).

Its not a bad system seeing that we manage over 160000 drawings

[M-dub]

Well, do you need the system to update all of the attributes in your title block or just a few?  For the ones you don't need, I'd be taking them out of the control of the EDMS.  It sounds like you don't have the option to leave the attributes alone if they're already populated, and I think that's what you need.

[hendie]

A new revision is created by right clicking on the drawing in the database. The software makes a copy of the drawing. The new drawing will be revision A and will be back in the Preliminary stage of the workflow. Then the drawing follows the approval route again.

Hope this is clear.

well it sounds like the edms is copying the drawing but not the records in the database, thus when it opens the drawing the blank fields in the db are being pushed to the drawing attributes.
If that is the case then I think there is a serious problem with their software. Surely there must be a control somwhere which tells the db how and when to update attributes I've never heard of an EDMS without such a feature, otherwise, what's the point ?

[M-dub]

A new revision is created by right clicking on the drawing in the database. The software makes a copy of the drawing. The new drawing will be revision A and will be back in the Preliminary stage of the workflow. Then the drawing follows the approval route again.

Hope this is clear.

well it sounds like the edms is copying the drawing but not the records in the database, thus when it opens the drawing the blank fields in the db are being pushed to the drawing attributes.
If that is the case then I think there is a serious problem with their software. Surely there must be a control somwhere which tells the db how and when to update attributes I've never heard of an EDMS without such a feature, otherwise, what's the point ?

x 2

[hudster]

could it be a problem with the autocad drawing version?

Our edms needed an update to work with drawings saved as 2007, the attribute import function didn't work with 2007 drawings. don't know why though, perhaps an arx component had changed?

[hendie]

I don't think so.
There are attributes present when the drawing is copied. When it is opened those attributes then have their values deleted so the edms IS writing to the drawing, it's just not behaving properly.
When it creates a revision it should also copy the metadata associated with the drawing. It would appear that this is not the case, and it's just copying the drawing without any associated data.

Bob, those fields are obviously linked to your database. When you create a revision (but BEFORE opening the drawing), what data does the database show ? Does it show values in those fields or those fields all blank ?

If they are blank, then that's the problem. The EDMS is not creating a revision correctly.
If they are not blank and the edms still deletes the values in the drawing when it's opened, then that is a much more serious problem

[Bob]

Hendie,

The drawing has all the the attributes showing correctly before the revision. (That's what we use to publish the pdf).

I have separated out the attributes into another block.

The EDMS can now update both blocks. Just writing a quick macro button to burst and block the new block.

[M-dub]

Sorry, but what will Burst & Block get you?  A more complicated drawing (albeit, just slightly, but still)?  Just sounds like you're changing your existing system to accommodate your EDMS where it should be the other way around.

[hendie]

I totally agree Mike. What is the point of an EDMS if you have to bodge your drawings to fit the EDMS's needs ?
I cannot believe any company would release an edms without the ability to create a revision or allow the user control over how and when attributes are updated

I just noticed in your first post that you said the authors name is being replaced by the revisors name ~ that points to the EDMS mapping two separate fields to the same attribute. If that's happening with the author field then chances are it's also happening in the other fields too.
I would check what db fields are mapping to which attributes first. If that checks out to be okay then it's an issue within the edms. I would be straight back onto the company and get them to sort it out.

[M-dub]

Here's a screenshot of the plugin our system uses to extract and/or update attributes.  Hendie probably has a much sweeter set up, but we're getting there.
In the bottom three areas which are labeled 'Adept Extraction Fields', 'Mapping for Adept Extraction Field' and 'Available Data', you'll see the fields in our EDMS (Adept Extraction Fields) and all of the attributes we deem necessary from all of the title blocks (Available Data).  The one in the middle is where they meet up.  On the left, I have Drawing Title selected.  The field name is T_TITLE1 (This is line one of the drawing title... obvious, I know) and we currently have 18 different attributes mapped to that field.  There are actually a bunch more that we have to add.  Sad, I know, but ...

Anyway, your system SHOULD have some similar kind of administration where you could go to check to find these incorrect mappings.