Author Topic: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview  (Read 8866 times)

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Dilbert

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2008, 03:05:28 PM »
C3D and the word intuitive do not belong in the same paragraph.

Yep, that's pretty much my thought process too...  that just means that it's prime to get kicked off the edge should a more intuitive solution come along with similar benefits.  Good comment.  :-)

mjfarrell

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2008, 03:06:16 PM »

By the way, I don't spend much time on AUGI anymore either... and Revit) but its not my topic of passion like it once was...

You know I get that response from a lot of people. They have effectively become irrelevant to a large group of users. Otherwise I can't explain their persistent marketing of augi events and activities here at The Swamp.
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Dinosaur

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2008, 03:07:10 PM »
. . . C3D and the word intuitive do not belong in the same paragraph.
How on earth were you guys able to use the words "Civil 3D" and "intuitive" WW.i  th   %%#out yyyourrrr KeYB...oar$D going i  nto mELt...dOwnnn ?

Dinosaur

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2008, 03:25:22 PM »
. . . Ahhh... so it has value, just not ENOUGH value.... that I can likely understand.   By the way, in an early post someone mentioned "file format" change and I would assume that was referring to C3D objects, but AutoCAD 2010 will have a format change (that I do know about) and will once again require a "saveas..." to save it to previous versions. In that regard, we will see that change across the AutoCAD based products...
I was convinced they would pull a surprise format change with 2009.  Without that extra kick, I don't see a whole lot of benefit in changing to 2009.  If this release had proven to be as flawed initially as its predecessors, I doubt anyone would have upgraded.  The jury is still out, but from what I could tell 2009 was much more ready to ship . . . provided one has the patience to wait out the sluggish program response with certain operations.  This alone would have likely doomed 2009 acceptance at my old firm.
Interoperability with anything other than the same release of Civil 3D has never worked in the past (although there has been some improvement) and I would only be pleasantly surprised if this ever changes.  I have abandoned all thought of saving my drawings down into anything other than primitive objects.  This was mostly a non issue for us as we only very rarely traded drawings with other companies.  Even bringing projects forward from 2007 to 2008 proved problematic.  I have encountered no similar issues moving forward to 2009 . . . but . . . the trust factor just isn't there with Civil 3D.  I am more likely to EXPECT problems with it.

mjfarrell

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2008, 03:25:50 PM »
Typed them words in two DIFFERENT applications and then PASTED them together<quickly> and hit send.


Brian, If you or Autodesk really wanted to know the good and the bad of C3D they would sit in on a few weeks of classes and take notes. And then they would know what should be fixed.  They must accept that there are problems in order to fix them. STOP with a new interface every other year to keep people confused, and fix the items that they just keep adding to the Technical Documents every year. Give the users what they asked for, not the 'features' they can design. Functions that Function, a STABLE platform and a consistent interface.

And I mean CONSISTENT, not the consistent that autodesk uses to describe the C3D interface, that my friends is NOT the definition of consistent.

Let's see, some sub assemblies CAN be left or right, and some can be + or -, yeah that's consistent!


Let's see some dialog boxes give a user a Drop Down, and others yield and ellipses, while others still present a pop-up box with a drop down in it.....Yeah THAT is consistent NOT


Or some objects ARE dynamic and others (All things Pipes) are NOT.....CONSISTENT   NOT

Or when user switches the Rotation of a Label coponent, it alters the X,Y axis in Label Style Composer as IF the user had defined a UCS, LAME!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 06:12:16 PM by mjfarrell »
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Michael Farrell
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scout

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2008, 05:22:24 PM »

The grand results – from the project manager’s view, this software:
A.   Is expensive to buy
B.   Requires a massive shift in workflow to be efficient
C.   Mandates initial and ongoing training for production staff
D.   Changes skin every year and takes at least 3 months before hitting the floor
E.   Is impossible to collaborate with any software other than the identical Civil 3D
F.   STILL needs to be checked and double checked for errors
G.   Cannot produce on its own a complete document set meeting the required formats


Well put. Thank you for writing such a well crafted synopsis.

Dana

Dinosaur

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2008, 06:10:13 PM »
Well put. Thank you for writing such a well crafted synopsis.

Dana
Thank YOU Dana, I have the highest respect for you and your dedication to the industry acceptance of Civil 3D.  I was hoping that this would be seen as not simply a rant on what was wrong with Civil 3D but the very real struggles it faces to accomplish this and let those who have the ability to direct the needed changes to turn this wreck around.  I want desperately to be proven wrong eventually and be able to work out my remaining years piloting Civil 3D and its successors because otherwise, I will be looking at a complete career change at the age of 55.  Should James miss all of this, please relay to him that I am not a bitter user, only a passionate one who has watched the events leading to this thread unfold for several months and used any forum available to rail against their occurring.  In the end, I failed in heading off those that directly affected me, but there is still a decent chance to bring Civil 3D to its full potential.   

MSTG007

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2008, 09:41:44 AM »
Dana, I have a question for you. How long have you been a the swamp? Just curious, The reason  I am asking, is it seems like there are alot of questions on C3D. And Alot of problems that people faced. Any ideas on some of the problems with what we post in here?
Do you think that Autodesk Employees or developers read what we post? Or do they just see the Bulk, or the same problem and attack that problem. I understand if its something specific, and hard, they can get to it when the get to it. This version or the next lol.
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scout

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2008, 01:00:41 PM »
Dana, I have a question for you. How long have you been a the swamp? Just curious, The reason  I am asking, is it seems like there are alot of questions on C3D. And Alot of problems that people faced. Any ideas on some of the problems with what we post in here?
Do you think that Autodesk Employees or developers read what we post? Or do they just see the Bulk, or the same problem and attack that problem. I understand if its something specific, and hard, they can get to it when the get to it. This version or the next lol.

I depend heavily on my feedreader, and the swamp doesn't come through the way I'd like to read it in RSS, so I don't follow much unless there is a thread of interest. There are several people that I work with on a daily basis, both at Autodesk and otherwise, who do read the swamp and usually ping me when there is something that might be good reading. So yes, sometimes the chatter here does get picked up by people who might be able to get the issues in front of the right people. But not tons of them.

I would say though that IF people in QA, or development are going to read postings and customer information, they tend to read in the mainstream adesk discussion groups. They don't tend to monitor the swamp or AUGI just because there is more traffic on the main DG and it is indexed by google. It is also easier to follow threads from the web or OE or thunderbird type readers.

They also tend to be more responsive to the users on those groups because it is easy to begin to form a baseline understanding of their exposure to Civil 3D. After a few posts on the DG, it is easy to figure out who is a new user who is there for learning the product and gaining support, as well as who is an experienced user who is pushing the software into new territory. When one of the latter posts an issue, if the appropriate dev/qa person happens to catch it, there is often an exchange of data and a solution posted, or at least acknowledgement of the problem.

Just like all humans, some of the team is more accessible and more willing to help than others. Participating in the discussion groups is not part of their official job, and mostly they are in there on their own time. Should it be part of their job? No doubt. But right now it isn't.

The Wishes DG on both AUGI and the 'desk DG are truly monitored by the keeper of the wishlist. Respectful and constructive wishes that also provide some "meat" about why (such as a DOT spec for stormwater design, or similar) are of especially high interest.

MSTG007

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2008, 01:13:29 PM »
WOW. its amazing what you learn once you ask the right person. Still what do you think is the best way to get your Questions Answered. I know the DG is there. There are so many. But as you mentioned above, the news reader or something like that, do they need to break out the forum or DG more? In to more detailed areas? I know they added the stormwater DG on Autodesk.
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mjfarrell

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2008, 01:17:38 PM »
WOW. its amazing what you learn once you ask the right QUESTION

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Michael Farrell
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scout

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2008, 12:39:06 AM »
WOW. its amazing what you learn once you ask the right person. Still what do you think is the best way to get your Questions Answered. I know the DG is there. There are so many. But as you mentioned above, the news reader or something like that, do they need to break out the forum or DG more? In to more detailed areas? I know they added the stormwater DG on Autodesk.

What kinds of questions? Questions about why/how the program doesn't work for you?

If it is wish related, put it on the Autodesk Civil 3D wishlist forum.

If you think you found a bug/defect or just wonder if something isn't working for others, just put it in the Autodesk Civil 3D forum. If you strike a chord, people will respond to you. This can help build up a bit of a body of knowledge on the specific issue (for example there are plenty of threads about the types of thing that Dino ruins into with Structure to Structure pipe runs) which in turn helps me or others like me build a case for change. It doesn't always work, and like I said, the attention from people that can help varies, but I don't believe time spent voicing concerns in a constructive way over there is a waste of time.

Like I said on the other thread, I have some deadlines over the next few weeks, so I won't be checking the Swamp much. If there is anything I can do to help more, drop me a line at dana dot probert at gmail dot com and I'll see if I can get you headed in the right direction.

MSTG007

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2008, 08:47:16 AM »
Sounds good.  :laugh:
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mjfarrell

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2008, 10:21:10 AM »
I trust that what Scout is really saying is not "Don't waste your time at the swamp, only use the official channels"
Because that would lead to the question; If the Swamp is such a waste of time, why is she here?
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Michael Farrell
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Dinosaur

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Re: Civil 3D - The Exit Interview
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2008, 10:58:27 AM »
I guess the discussion groups are a valid source for help as long as one is willing to put up with a major dose of arrogance unless and until one has apparently passed their muster and is deemed worthy of a response.  I tried a few questions over there and offered some answers as well.  I was respectful, posed well thought out questions and comments and received zero response except for a couple "yea, I see that too" comments.  From what I can tell, if you have a question that has no ready answer, the silence is deafening.  The discussion groups are fine if you have a question you know has been answered, but can't find or need to verify some procedure to solve something, but other than that I find them a waste of my time.