TheSwamp
CAD Forums => CAD General => Topic started by: Bethrine on August 27, 2007, 08:06:04 AM
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Hello everyone. I would like to know what any employers look for upon hiring. Could I use a drawing for my resume? What would you look for in it? Which personality traits would be important to you? Anything you would like to comment on would be very helpful.
My only degree is in <deleted> (not my thing :| ). I have put myself through an AutoCAD basic training book I bought from the makers of AutoCAD and done some side work from sketches for my Dad in the physics department at a University. Just basic stuff, but I enjoy it so much I have been playing with AutoCAD for fun and would like to get my foot in the door.
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Hello everyone. I would like to know what any employers look for upon hiring. Could I use a drawing for my resume? What would you look for in it? Which personality traits would be important to you? Anything you would like to comment on would be very helpful.
My only degree is in Dental Assisting (not my thing :| ). I have put myself through an AutoCAD basic training book I bought from the makers of AutoCAD and done some side work from sketches for my Dad in the physics department at a University. Just basic stuff, but I enjoy it so much I have been playing with AutoCAD for fun and would like to get my foot in the door.
Right now a lot of the bigger EP&C Engineering companies are hiring entry level "drafters", but most are looking for at least a two year degree in some drafting based discipline (we do). Check out the local university, some of the classes you've already taken may transfer to a two year program and get you out quicker.
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I am looking into that too and may have to look for something different in the meantime, but I'd like to get my foot in the door as soon as possible. Even so, I will submit resumes and interview in the future at some point.
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Like Cadaver, we look for that 2 yr degree. With that it pretty much says that this person has reached a certain baseline. We can train them from there.
However, you might try some contract drafting firms to get your foot in the door. We utilize many of these firms and people that show exceptional qualities are given consideration for hiring.
Qualities we look for include:
Attention to detail!
Abitity to learn
Good basic drafting skills
Personality traits include:
Team player
Ability to get along
Positive attitude
Aside from that, anything else can be taught. :-)
It seems like you have the right attitude! Good luck to you!
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Thank you both very much! Could you suggest an educational program you prefer to see on your applicants resumes?
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No, no specific program. Your local Tech school is good enough.
I'm looking to see if you have had formal training. After that, it is what you do with that knowledge that will make you a good or bad drafter. In other words, without your teacher looking over your shoulder, do you still do the right thing because you have pride in your work and because its the right thing? Or do you sloppily, do what you please because you want to be "artsy"?
A drafting/cad school will teach you those little "unwritten" rules. The way that you apply those rules will show up in your drawings.
From our perspective, we can teach you our specific work, but you must have good habits already.
Your enthusiasm will help a great deal. Keep that attitude!!
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^
What she said.
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^
What she said.
I think I need to mark this day on the calendar... CADaver just agreed with me :wink:
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^
What she said.
I think I need to mark this day on the calendar... CADaver just agreed with me :wink:
As a good thing or........ :-D
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^
What she said.
I think I need to mark this day on the calendar... CADaver just agreed with me :wink:
As a good thing or........ :-D
A good thing, of course...Silly :-)
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It's good to see everyone getting along :-D .
Arizona, that really solidified things for me. I understand what you are saying. (Reminds me of the Mars Lander. Details are important!) So is a personal obligation to your work that doesn't have to be re-instilled daily by your boss/team as well as appreciation of others ideas and refinements of your own work and no listening = no learning.
I can't seem to find any certification courses, just the Associates programs. Do you know of one? How about on line schooling? Or is an associates what you would reccommend?
My problem: My husband will not be happy with school instead of work :-( . I could do both, but my kids are still young and my husbands check is more than enough so it's kind of a sore point with him, but it's what I want to do and I have a natural talent for it. If I could get in the door the classes would be justified for him.
We are a large company, and we do not require certification. Do you have a local technical school?
If not you could do it through an Associates program. However, long before you ever complete the degree you would have the essential skills necessary to become an entry level drafter.
Classes I would recommend is basic/advanced drafting skills and Autocad (start at basic, and don't stop).
The attention to detail, etc... are probably ingrained habits currently.
Question: Are you a perfectionist by nature?
On a side note: Many things in life may come and go, but your knowledge is yours forever.
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Ok, here is a really simple question ... would you hire someone if they do not have any formal training i.e. associates degree or certificate or whatever ... and "depends" is not an acceptable answer, if you use it, you must explain under what conditions you would hire someone without the requisite training.
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Ok, here is a really simple question ... would you hire someone if they do not have any formal training i.e. associates degree or certificate or whatever ... and "depends" is not an acceptable answer, if you use it, you must explain under what conditions you would hire someone without the requisite training.
I've gone into interviews without that magic piece of paper (I'm one English class short of the completion, and the college will absolutely not work with me over my now living 900 miles away) and have never been rejected based upon that qualification not being met. They've either been satisfied with my knowledge of Autocad or other assorted CAD programs, or say that my work experience more than makes up for simply lacking that degree. One said that he didn't care about the lack of an english credit, as long as I had completed the drafting requirements for the degree, which I had, and showed a copy of my transcripts for their review.
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At companies I have worked at, we have taken school-leavers and put them through an apprenticeship where they go to college or university one day a week, and the other 4 days learn "on-the-job" under the guidance of engineers and experienced technicians. This generally works well for the people wishing to become engineers etc. They are learning while earning... in my eyes its a win-win situation
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Ok, here is a really simple question ... would you hire someone if they do not have any formal training i.e. associates degree or certificate or whatever ... and "depends" is not an acceptable answer, if you use it, you must explain under what conditions you would hire someone without the requisite training.
Certainly I would hire some one lacking the necessary formal training. While formal training is a good indication of the person's commitment to a skill. Lack of formal training, I can fix. Lack of attitude (regardless of formal training) I don't want to even try to fix.
Would I take a chance on a beginner, you bet I would. Someone took a chance on me once :-)
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^
What she said.
I think I need to mark this day on the calendar... CADaver just agreed with me :wink:
You were right, I ALWAYS agree with "right".
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Ok, here is a really simple question ... would you hire someone if they do not have any formal training i.e. associates degree or certificate or whatever ... and "depends" is not an acceptable answer, if you use it, you must explain under what conditions you would hire someone without the requisite training.
Yes.
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Ok, here is a really simple question ... would you hire someone if they do not have any formal training i.e. associates degree or certificate or whatever ... and "depends" is not an acceptable answer, if you use it, you must explain under what conditions you would hire someone without the requisite training.
Definitely. In my particular case I would prefer it. I base that on the experience of having interns here in the past. Always eager to show how much (they think) they know instead of doing what you tell them too. Reinventing my wheel is great if it works. Just do it on your own time and THEN convince me.
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For a foot in the door, approach the different companies in your area with your resume (that was truthfully written) and return to those companies for follow-up each week or every other week to see if they're hiring for an entry level position. That's what I did... 11 years ago. (Still here :roll: )
If at all possible, try to get in touch with someone else who is in the business in that area and has been for a long time. If you're lucky, you'll be able to find out which companies to avoid and which ones are good to work for or have a good reputation for doing good work. Although, doing good work and being a good place to work don't always go hand in hand, it gives you an idea of what to look for and which place to try harder to get into.
Traits I would look for would be adaptive, creative, eager, open-minded and focused. ( I have a hard time with the last one, myself, hence my post count.) You need to have some background knowledge about AutoCAD, but each place will try to mold you into (X) type of drafter / designer. Standards... just remember standards. :)
I always felt that I was lucky to have been hired fresh out of high school. I mean, I WAS. In many ways though, I regret being satisfied with it, because I was making plans to go to university and to this day, wish I had. It's not out of the question, but it's a lot more difficult now, being married, with a child, mortgage, etc...
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck!
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You were right, I ALWAYS agree with "right".
I'm just not use to being right :-) very often.
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Thank you, Keith, for re-phrasing that so well.
I really appreciate everyone's input! I now have a much better idea of where to sart and how to go about it. Suddenly I have much to do!
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You are welcome, but I must admit I did it for my own benefit ... since I have no formal training and do not hold a certificate or degree in anything, I was wondering how difficult it would be for me to get a job with some of these places that require a degree, even though I have nearly 15 years on AutoCAD. (I think that is right .. my adder is fogged at the moment)
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You are still welcome. You did ask the question that actually got the answers I was looking for. Sometimes I try to hard to be polite and instead it's more like beating around the bush than me asking a question. Forums are teaching me that oh so well :-)
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You are welcome, but I must admit I did it for my own benefit ... since I have no formal training and do not hold a certificate or degree in anything, I was wondering how difficult it would be for me to get a job with some of these places that require a degree, even though I have nearly 15 years on AutoCAD. (I think that is right .. my adder is fogged at the moment)
Degrees are required at entry level positions, beyond that experience can trump degree.
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I have interviewed countless numbers of people for entry level CAD technician jobs and their qualifications have always varied, as has their experience.
I soon learnt to take little notice of their qualifications as "3 years architectural experience using CAD" meant that they had to use 3D Vis once in their architecture degree"
In the end I just sat them down at a computer and asked them to draw and dimension a rectangle of a certain size. They fell into categories such as "no bloody idea", "30 minutes to find the rectangle icon on the toolbar", "unable to use coordinate entry" "slow but passable" to "done 3 seconds later, is that it?
For the people with more obvious experience we gave them a 10 minute redlining exercise to do.
I was looking more for enthusiasm, raw ability, and attention to detail than how quickly or how well they they did.
Bethrine; your enthusiasm, basic talent and willingness to learn would be enough to impress me, and (unless there was another candidate with similar traits AND a 2 year CAD course/tech qualification) I'd certainly consider you for a junior training position.
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I will now be drawing lots of shapes using coordinate entry and timing myself. :-D
Thank you CB_UK. I am going to put a resume together and bravely post it under job junk (suggested by another here, thank you too) when it is ready. I am also looking into a basic drafting course at my local community college.
I have discovered I am much more experienced at AutoCAD (entry level) than at resume writing, job hunting and interviewing. :| :-) I think I have a much better idea of what I need to do and how to go about it now. Thank you all for your input!
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I will now be drawing lots of shapes using coordinate entry and timing myself. :-D
Thank you CB_UK. I am going to put a resume together and bravely post it under job junk (suggested by another here, thank you too) when it is ready. I am also looking into a basic drafting course at my local community college.
I have discovered I am much more experienced at AutoCAD (entry level) than at resume writing, job hunting and interviewing. :| :-) I think I have a much better idea of what I need to do and how to go about it now. Thank you all for your input!
Don't worry about the timing yourself, yet. Start with a command, such as line and investigate all of the options, How many ways can you make a line and as you become familiar with them your speed will pick up because you are using the program. Then move to another command and do the same thing. As has been pointed out in other places around the Swamp, there are generally at least ten ways to do anything in ACAD.
When you enroll at your community college, you should get access to their career counseling services, which should include resume preparation and possibly some good job leads in your area.
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Start with a command, such as line and investigate all of the options, How many ways can you make a line and as you become familiar with them your speed will pick up because you are using the program. Then move to another command and do the same thing. As has been pointed out in other places around the Swamp, there are generally at least ten ways to do anything in ACAD.
Couldn't agree more! I've been using CAD for nearly 10 years and I'm still learning! Always looking for ways to streamline and improve my productivity. It might seem strange to spend an hour playing with options and settings to try and save one or two mouse clicks per command routine, but if it's a frequently used command it can add up to thousands of clicks a day/week (and now that my RSI/tendonitis in my mouse hand is starting to become more frequent I'm always looking for ways to save clicks!)
Once you've streamlined your basic processes you then start to look at automating routines, customizing toolbar commands to string a series of commands together, and if you're really really clever you start using lisp and VBA like some of the smart people here . . . . :wink:
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... would like to know what any employers look for upon hiring. ...
For us it's gotta be....industry experience. And basic CAD understanding. We can train the rest.
In my experience, folks who know AutoCAD are a dime a dozen. What sets someone apart is experience in how WE apply it. That is,... industry experience.
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I found the VBA course in the Teach Me thread. (I am still looking for lisp.)
I installed Ubuntu and it killed my Vista :x so I now have to reinstall that (or XP) and hope it doesn't kill my Ubuntu :pissed:. As soon as I get it back up I can run my ACAD and begin playing with lines again :).
For those who are interested (be it curiosity or otherwise), my resume should be ready to post very soon and I am going to my local community college this week to see where I currently stand (some college) and inquire about their basic drafting course.
You people are all :angel: 's !
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Just some additional information/thoughts, if you can swing it financially and with your home situiation, get an associates degree. The associates degree will do more for you in the long run then a "drafting certificate". Plus if you have some college already, there might not be much more classes between an associates and a certificate.
Pieter
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Just some additional information/thoughts, if you can swing it financially and with your home situiation, get an associates degree. The associates degree will do more for you in the long run then a "drafting certificate". Plus if you have some college already, there might not be much more classes between an associates and a certificate.
Pieter
I agree. My employees EMPLOYERS (whoops) have a lot more respect for the education I gained in my degree plans than anyone we're planning on getting out of technical school.
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I agree. My employees ....
I see you now have a company or office, .... Can I get I real job please..... so I can get out from the streets :evil: :-D
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I agree. My employees ....
I see you now have a company or office, .... Can I get I real job please..... so I can get out from the streets :evil: :-D
Haha oops... good catch, I'll fix that typo now ;)
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I see you now have a company or office, .... Can I get I real job please..... so I can get out from the streets :evil: :-D
Is this your "Clark Kent" persona LE? :-)
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I see you now have a company or office, .... Can I get I real job please..... so I can get out from the streets :evil: :-D
Is this your "Clark Kent" persona LE? :-)
He he....
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What it is your degree? or your school level?
Or are you thinking to study Architecture? or?
Why drafting (or CAD)? - (can you upload some of your work here ?)
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Just in case any may take it the wrong way, I was not intending to shoot down the Tech. School route. My bosses have said at the last firm they worked for (before they started this one on their own) they would hire tech school student through the school while they were going through classes, and trained them on the job once they had a good basis of Autocad control, and then basically asked them if they wanted to drop out of school and work for them full time. I'm told that 99% of the time they said yes, and dropped out within the week and started workin' full time.
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What it is your degree? or your school level?
Or are you thinking to study Architecture? or?
Why drafting (or CAD)? - (can you upload some of your work here ?)
I am working on a portfolio now. I unfortunately lost all of my work when my old hd went ca-put :realmad: . I don't currently have a scanner / printer (yet) so I can't upload it yet either, but I am working on that too. My school level is <removed>.
Okay, you asked...
Why CAD. I love it! I did some subcontracting for a close personal acquaintance at their request for their company. They said I would like it and be good at it so I bought the Student version of AutoCAD and a couple of text books to learn on and in three months was working from hand drawn sketches and getting paid for it, Simple ones. I kept looking forward to the next drawing and I have been playing with AutoCAD LT for a couple years now (though my acquaintance has retired). I find I am still playing with it, unlike most things I do and wishing for another project. The type of product doesn't matter too much, I enjoy the technical aspects of just about anything, but I have some familiarity with construction and a definite liking for it so, yes, that is probably where I will end up...I think commercial maybe.
*edit* I am also waiting on some real life circumstances to clear up before posting my resume. Should only be a couple of weeks. ps, some project ideas would be appreciated, right now I am measuring my house :-D .
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I am working on a portfolio now. I unfortunately lost all of my work when my old hd went ca-put :realmad: . I don't currently have a scanner / printer (yet) so I can't upload it yet either, but I am working on that too. My school level is a community college sophomore, no degree, but radiology and DA certifications from a tech school.
Okay, you asked...
Why CAD. I love it! I did some subcontracting for a close personal acquaintance at their request for their company. They said I would like it and be good at it so I bought the Student version of AutoCAD and a couple of text books to learn on and in three months was working from hand drawn sketches and getting paid for it, Simple ones. I kept looking forward to the next drawing and I have been playing with AutoCAD LT for a couple years now (though my acquaintance has retired). I find I am still playing with it, unlike most things I do and wishing for another project. The type of product doesn't matter too much, I enjoy the technical aspects of just about anything, but I have some familiarity with construction and a definite liking for it so, yes, that is probably where I will end up...I think commercial maybe.
*edit* I am also waiting on some real life circumstances to clear up before posting my resume. Should only be a couple of weeks. ps, some project ideas would be appreciated, right now I am measuring my house :-D .
I seriously wish you all the luck in your learning experience and if you like that much the CAD world then go for it, you are going to make it!!!.... it is interesting I never push my kids to learn any CAD at all , time will tell...
Once, you have some AutoCAD drawing samples, I would like to have a look at them.
Bethrine, have a look at this sample drawings of mine :)
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=14435.msg173749#msg173749
HTH
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I seriously wish you all the luck in your learning experience and if you like that much the CAD world then go for it, you are going to make it!!!.... it is interesting I never push my kids to learn any CAD at all , time will tell...
Once, you have some AutoCAD drawing samples, I would like to have a look at them.
Bethrine, have a look at this sample drawings of mine :)
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=14435.msg173749#msg173749
HTH
Thanks! I am planning on linking my drawings to my resume when I am ready, I will definately get copies to you.
Now those look fun! I will look at them in more detail this evening!
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The other route to go, is get enrolled in your community college. Once enrolled you can look to see if there are any internships in the architectural/engineering field. This would get you interviews and at least a way in. Also, most community colleges have a job board that you can look at and see if there are any places looking for warm bodies. I say warm bodies in a good way because sometimes firms are just looking for people to fill seats and needs. Sometimes (ok a lot of times) you might be scanning prints all day, or plotting all day, but it is a job at and A/E firm.
I worked for an A/E firm that would continue to hire drafters with no experience. So, you can get a job w/o a degree, but it's getting harder and harder. Since you have some college, that it a plus.
The other thing to think about is since you are already freelancing, you can go that route. Sometimes finding clients is the hard part. Since you seem to have 1 or 2, you are a step ahead. I started with one and 8 years later I am still doing work for them....
Pieter
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The other route to go, is get enrolled in your community college. Once enrolled you can look to see if there are any internships in the architectural/engineering field. This would get you interviews and at least a way in. Also, most community colleges have a job board that you can look at and see if there are any places looking for warm bodies.
Pieter
I think that is a great idea and I may go that route. Thanks!
WillCodeForFood: I looked at your drawings (and a few others) and mine are definately simplistic compared to them. I feel capable (with a bit of direction), but I haven't done anything that large by any means. It does look like fun though! I got my CAD up and running in my dual boot finally so I have just started a new project. I am working completely from my imagination, but it will be scaled and hopefully plottable (I don't have a printer yet so I can't play with that yet :cry: ...working on it).
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Brief thread diversion here:
Luis, I took the liberty of downloading your drawing set - nice, nice work! You did 1/8 scale plans and were able to call out all that information and still render a clear concise drawing. Dimensions all lined up and easy to read. Sweet!
In exchange for sharing your work with me, I'll buy you a beer. Or several. I can't go to TJ but if you find yourself in Mission Valley, we can meet at the Karl Strauss brew pub. You up for it?
Back to the original thread.
Bob
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Okay, I have my resume ready, I think, and am posting it in job junk today for critiqing. I have a drawing in process, too, and I know there is a way to attach a file to a post. Unfortunatly, I have not done this before. Could sombody tell me how or show me to a link?
Yes, those drawings look both excellent and fun! Thanks!
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Okay, I have my resume ready, I think, and am posting it in job junk today for critiqing. I have a drwwing in process, too, and I know there is a way to attach a file to a post. Unfortunatly, I have not done this before. Could sombody tell me how or show me to a link?
While you're in the "Post reply" window click on "Additional Options" below the text input box, i.e. where I'm typing now. :-)
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But for Autocad and Civil otherwise I would not limit yourself just to one Field of choice. There is many different opportunities out there that use Autocad that is not Civil and or designing floor plans. There is companies that do mechanical drawings in autocad also. I keep reading about civil and house plans design and stuff but I think you should not limit yourself just to this.
Also Try to get your hands on many other programs as possible to learn. SOlidworks SOlidedge Microstation Inventor or what not. The more programs you know how to use the more flexible you become and open more doors for employment.
Thanks
Shane
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Oh yea, I have to second the notion of multiple programs..
I was hired by one company simply because I had experience with multiple programs, because they were evaluating moving on up to the magic 3D schtick and no one currently had any idea about what software was LIKE other than Autocad. My very limited experience with Solidworks, and my then-extensive use of Inventor got me the job. I had all the required skills and attractive abilities, but that was one of the things (in addition to my experience as a machinist and having some precision machining programming under my belt) that put me over the top as a prime candidate.
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I think you said <removed> is your First choice of Education. My Wife is a <removed> and she loves her job. Just wondering what you did not like about being a <removed>? (removed)
But for Autocad and Civil otherwise I would not limit yourself just to one Field of choice. There is many different opportunities out there that use Autocad that is not Civil and or designing floor plans. There is companies that do mechanical drawings in autocad also. I keep reading about civil and house plans design and stuff but I think you should not limit yourself just to this.
Also Try to get your hands on many other programs as possible to learn. SOlidworks SOlidedge Microstation Inventor or what not. The more programs you know how to use the more flexible you become and open more doors for employment.
Thanks
Shane
<deleted>
Yes, I don't want to limit myself, but unfortunately, my knowledge of the other diciplines is lacking. I keep changing my mind on where to start so I am thinking I will start wherever I get the chance and go from there. As long as I get the chance to use my brain in a technical way and in a field where I can continually grow my knowledge, I will be continually intrigued and enjoy what I do. I am not devoted to civil but it is where my exsperience seems to be for now. I may get into the field more and decide later on there is a track I am very interested in persuing, but for now I am happy just to get going. I also find GIS very interesting, but I don't know anything about it. I will look into those other programs as well, maybe a class alongside the drafting class such as Solidworks or some such?
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and timing myself. :-D
Accuracy trumps plain old speed. We had a designer who just blew non-caddies away because he was so "fast". Man, those keys just went clickity-clack 100 miles a minute, and he was zooming and panning like the wind.
Trouble was, when you really looked at the drawings, there were columns running through equipment and other such nonsense.
The speed will come, concentrate on accuracy first.
I've also had people come out of Tech schools with (at least) certificates in AutoCAD/drafting, who could barely handle the basics. But they thought, because they had been "trained", that that was it...they knew all there was to know. And they pretty much stopped there, proving themselves to be not so smart after all.
I'm self-taught 20+ years ago - no degree whatsoever. Of course, that was when AutoCAD was still pretty new and I was in the right place at the right time starting out. Now I'm the resident cad queen. There's plenty that I don't know, but I'm really good at looking things up, and I've probably run into just about every problem in my past, so I can answer tons of questions for my coworkers.
Besides dumb luck, what's my secret? A love of puzzles & mysteries... and pure laziness...seriously, don't laugh! Whenever I thought to myself, "there must be an easier way to do this", I would (and still do) work like crazy to find that easier way.
Never think you know all there is to know about this field. Never. Ever. Because even if you're a whiz kid, the new version comes out and there's even more to learn.
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I have to echo srlafleur. I used to be one of those fresh-out-of-college whiz kids who thought they knew it all and had much to learn.
Luckily I brightened up real fast. My methods and situations are much like srlafleur. I'm invaluable here, because many people are simply too lazy to try using the help file. It's amazing how much people will do to avoid having to click "Help... help" and type a search word.
Amazing.
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Glad to hear it, the engineer I worked under called and asked me questions and I looked them up and found them and called with a return answer. I also enjoy a good puzzle! So I am very glad to read your post. It sounds, once again, like I am on the right track. :-D :-D It is in my nature that if it's not done right then it isn't done so I always tend to lack on speed but, yes, with practice anyone gets better. I am also glad to hear that I must keep learning throughout this field because I end up getting bored with jobs and looking for something new. I am playing an online game and find I keep ignoring it to do CAD :ugly: . I am just loving it! Your post is very encouraging to me!! Thanks!
Hopefully by the end of this week I will be able to start an official job hunt. Hopefully, red tape, yuck!
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Good luck with your job search. I would suggest trying to find a small company, which might be less strict up front regarding diplomas and such. If they seem reluctant because of your lack of experience/training, perhaps you could offer to work for a trial period - paid, of course.