Topic: Asbuilts?

[42]

I could not agree more. Nothing is more dispiriting that going back to someone else's drawings and finding altered dimensions. As for trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that's just bad designing, believe me not just limited to Architects, ( you weren't bitten by one in your cot were you). The reason we will so often call for shop drawings is that it is to check that the specialist sub contractor has interpreted our intentions correctly. As often as not we are not the experts in a specialist field. For instance we will draw the curtain wall elevations or spec a suspended concrete floor, it is up to the sub contractor to complete the design to our requirements. If it plain wont work , then its up to us to listen and alter the design accordingly. Only a bad Architect or designer will not listen to the experts. We may well have to coorinadate twenty specialist sub contractors in a building all with their own requierments

[Shinyhead]

Then you are one of those that are great to work with.  It's not really as bad as I am making out, but then it wouldn't be a good rant would it :realmad:.

It is bad though. Obviously not in your case, but with MANY architects, they come across as VERY condescending when you have the stones to question the design.  It gets worse when you get the interiour designers in the mix, but thats a whole different level of stupid (were talking on a exponential level), I don't even know what language they are speaking half the time .

[Dinosaur]

Must be nice, folks.  Not only do subdivision designers have to prepare as-builts after construction before the plats can be recorded and lots sold, some cities and utility companies are requiring these to not only be drawn to reflect the as built condition instead of just a strike through of the original design with the as-built numbers.  Some agencies are actually requiring these as-built plans go through a review process that can go through as many as 5 different submittals before they will accept the plans.  We have found it best to save the entire project to a different name for the as-builts and preserve the original design as it was approved,

[Birdy]

The attitude seems to be that they are providing what they are after as a guideline, but those pesky details are up to the contractor to work out. This too is fine, except when the shop drawings go to the architect for review and they come back bloody red because it isn't designed they way they envisioned it.

We must play in the same sandbox Chris.  I had a similar case where the archie (a BIG new york firm) insisted that our cornice details were all wrong. 

(Conference call-the boss is present)
Him(archie): "This detail is so screwed up.  Why didn't you use the cad file we sent. That's precisely how we want it"
(ME): "we did use your file."
(Him): "Then what are all these screwy dimensions you have on here?"
(ME):  "That's your drawing brought into our template to create the shops."
(Him): "That cant be. Our drawings are done with the utmost precision."
(Me):  "uh, yeah, well I checked the file you sent us and the units precision was set to 1/4", which may be fine for an 8,000 sq. ft. floor plan, but it's not acceptable for our required tolerances."

....Looooooonnnnng silence on the other end of the phone.......

(Him): "Hmmm.  Well,  I'll have our guys look at it and send you more files."
(Me): "uh, that won't  be necessary. We just finished redrawing everything ourselves.  It's much quicker that way."

(Sideways glare at the boss as I walk out of the room.)

For most of what we do, I'd just as soon NOT have the CAD files from archies.  It's rarely been advantageous to us.
I feel your pain Chris.

Birdy, aka Alex. 

[Birdy]

If it plain wont work , then its up to us to listen and alter the design accordingly. Only a bad Architect or designer will not listen to the experts.

My gosh I wish we did work for your firm.  Most of the archies we deal with are of such an arrogant breed that you simply can't tell them anything.
My hat's off to you 42!

[Birdy]

It gets worse when you get the interiour designers in the mix

Present Swamp company excluded, of course. 

[Shinyhead]

How should I say ah,.. oops, lol

No really, int. design definately has a place, but from the standpoint of engineering drawings, what a nightmare. But this comes from a project where the int. design "team" has to sign off on the drawings too, so you can imagine the revisions.

OK, this should explain it, a 2D shop drawing for a kitchen that gets to be over 10 meg in autocad 2005? And thats with regular purges.  Then agian there were I think 30+ plan sections.

[dan19936]

Back on the as-built question, others covered why architects might prepare "record drawings" but never as-builts. Here is an insurance company's take on the issue:
http://www.ppib.com/arch-eng/library/perspect/1991-07.htm

Dan

[Jim Yadon]

Back on the as-built question, others covered why architects might prepare "record drawings" but never as-builts. Here is an insurance company's take on the issue:
http://www.ppib.com/arch-eng/library/perspect/1991-07.htm

Dan

That's some good stuff.

[Krushert]

If you think I can design a reception desk 15' in diameter and fit it into a 16' wide room with 36" clear on each side, please be so kind as to explain how, instead of simply marking up what was submitted and saying see floorplan for dimensions and simply glazing over the note to you saying your dims don't work. Not that you have done this, but I have seen that sort of thing happen over and over again.

An why is it that its ok for drawings by the designer to have overridden dimensions ANYWHERE?  Or better yet, no dimensions at all?

Again these people need to be hung by their thumbnails, then drawn & quartered, and then keel hauled, then flogged, then burned at the stake, and finally shot.  :pissed:

[Krushert]

Again these people need to be hung by their thumbnails, then drawn & quartered, and then keel hauled, then flogged, then burned at the stake, and finally shot.  :pissed:

oh yeah I forgot - beat with a wet noodle too. 

[pmvliet]

I've done as-builts(record drawiings) for the Telecomm industry for the last 8 years. I think the industries where changes are continuosly done keep much better track of their drawings. I would believe that is why someone said earlier about the P&ID's and stuff are also kep up to date. Same is true for Security Systems.

In the same amount of time, any facility that utilizes CAFM (computer aided facilities management) also has pretty much a living cadd document of their facility. The more accurate they can keep their drawings, they are able to take advantage of tax credits and stuff because they can prove they have "X" sq footage or reseach space. These are mostly for Universities & Hospitals.

In the last 2 years or so, the Retail industry is getting more intense on obtaining a set of as-built or record drawings for their facilities. Mostly due to the fact that if they are building a new building, withing 2 to 4 years they will be doing a remodel of some sort.

Pieter

[jonesy]

The company I currently work for does as-builts for road design only when the contract dictates. Then its not a full set of drawings, just the road alignment, any road markings and where the services are located. There are no construction details to tell the client how the road was built.

[CottageCGirl]

It gets worse when you get the interiour designers in the mix

Present Swamp company excluded, of course. 

Thank you Birdy, let's remind everyone that there is a HUGE range with in each of the professional specialties.....

As for as builts, we try to do them, but agian noone is paying for them. usually it ends up that it is done prior to the next renovation. As a designer, the problem is that it seems impossible to find the problem..meaning that if a room is 6" smaller than it should be, it seems impossible to find out where the 6" went, then,  when a building is built out of square it is almost impossible to fix the as-builts. We try to address any major changes or obvious errors but it seems ineveitable that the asbuilts seem to be the last thing on everyones list.

-difficult Interior Designer Chick....

[Shinyhead]

Thank you Birdy, let's remind everyone that there is a HUGE range with in each of the professional specialties.....

I definatly did not mean to offend, its just a rarity that I have run accross a designer working with CAD, but thats just my personal experience.