Author Topic: AUTO LINE DRAW  (Read 13751 times)

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Jeff_M

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2006, 08:28:14 PM »
PMFJI here, but I happen to be among the 90% but wish to be among the 10%. To make matters worse, our survey dept. still utilizes an old TOPCON GTS-3B without a DC....yep, hand written field notes.....for about 60% of our surveys. The other 40% is done with a much more modern GTS-802 that at least has DC on board.

So I guess my questions are these:
Can someone post or PM me with an itemized list of what I need to setup and how to instruct the filed crews to obtain/record the shots?
I tried out Dent's FBK and could only say WOW. But I have always seen our crews do their shots in more of cross section fashion. Dent's appear to all be in a string/linear fashion. How are the BEGIN END qualifiers input to the DC?

Forgive me if these are mundane inquiries, but I have led a sheltered life for the past 20 years...about the only thing I have managed to do tech-wise is stay within 4 releases of the current Acad/LDD release.

Dinosaur

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2006, 08:44:40 PM »
Dent will know more about it than I, But I think as long as the surveyors put the right code on the shot the program will work regardless the order the shots are taken.  It would probably make their work easier though, if they clustered the codes as much as possible for certain features( ie around a curb return or the corners of a storm box).

Craig Davis

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2006, 08:55:40 PM »
PMFJI here, but I happen to be among the 90% but wish to be among the 10%. To make matters worse, our survey dept. still utilizes an old TOPCON GTS-3B without a DC....yep, hand written field notes.....for about 60% of our surveys. The other 40% is done with a much more modern GTS-802 that at least has DC on board.

So I guess my questions are these:
Can someone post or PM me with an itemized list of what I need to setup and how to instruct the filed crews to obtain/record the shots?
I tried out Dent's FBK and could only say WOW. But I have always seen our crews do their shots in more of cross section fashion. Dent's appear to all be in a string/linear fashion. How are the BEGIN END qualifiers input to the DC?

Forgive me if these are mundane inquiries, but I have led a sheltered life for the past 20 years...about the only thing I have managed to do tech-wise is stay within 4 releases of the current Acad/LDD release.
Jeff,

First of all let me re-iterate that I'm in Australia and may use slightly different methods and equipment/software. If you would like I can get some details on what our surveyors use.

We've always picked up our survey data in a cross section format as I believe this is the most accurate way of doing it (VC's can cause problems if you miss a point on the cross section). We use a string number for each feature. So say your left edge of bitumen would be coded as 011403.
01=String number
1=contourable
403=feature code (Edge of bitumen)

Centre line would be 021401
02=String number
1=Contourable
401=Feature code (Centre line)

and so on. The software will automatically string up each string in point number numerical order.

I have no idea if this is how your guys do it over there, but it does seem logical to do it that way.

Anyone else please chime in if we're that far different from you guys.

Dent Cermak

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2006, 09:34:03 PM »
That will indeed work, but it's WAY too complicated for my Mississippi rednecks. I employ the KISS system. First of all, a field file shot lineraly is just as accurate as shooting in x-section format. In the x-section format all you have to do is miss a shot and you are screwed.
We set up and shoot the EA.Then come back down line with the next feature, say CL of the road. Up and back, up and back. Move up to next setup. Repeat proceedure using RECALL to tie everything together. Initially it took about 10% longer to do it this way. The office savings offset that initial burp by far. Now a crew that knows the system takes about the same amount of time as shooting x-sectionally.
The Key is STANDARDIZING the codes. My code list is on the lilly pond. Anytime a crew comes up with something new add it to the list. This includes the abbreviations for the line work and the descriptor keys. My descriptors for the descriptor keys are my block file name. My block for a sanitary sewer manhole is named "SSMH" thats also the descriptor code.
Jeff to understand the BEGIN , END and other codes, open my FBK file with notepad or word. You will see the codes in place.Most data collectors have you key in "B EA" and the data collector will enter BEGIN EA. This ,may vary from data collector to data collector. Check the Operator's Manual for more details.
If the drawing is to be done at 1"=30', the crew takes a shot every 30 feet PLUS any breaks or features inbetween the 30 foot shots. I also suggest running a closed loop traverse around the project site and setting any spur points you may need BEFORE doing much more. Keep this in a separate file from your other shpots. DO NOT let them mix the files. This will cause greif.
I can tell you now, get ready for the old "We have never done it that way before" whines. I've been through it with all 3 offices  and soon will have to go through it again with more new crews. You have seen what it can do. Let them draw the lines while they are standing there looking at it. A drafter going out for field checks is wasted time. They need to be drawing. You want a field check? Cool send the PM. He's the one that needs to be doing that.
The trick is to come up with a system that you CAN work with and they WILL work with. Keep it simple. Keep it detailed. It works. The job I posted is a very SMALL job. Field time was 6 hours (had a LONG vertical run.) Office time 2 hours (including vicinity map, etc. Would be much faster but I type REAL slow.) The client was REAL happy with the low cost that he was billed. He WILL be back.

The key files are:
linetest.dwg = what you should get after importing the FBK file.
5081Topo.FBK= the fbk file that does all of the work. Open this with word or notepad to see how the code has been keyed in in the field.
MaptechCode.DOC+ these are all of our abbreviations for line work and block insertion.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 09:53:31 PM by Dent Cermak »

Craig Davis

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2006, 12:10:00 AM »
That will indeed work, but it's WAY too complicated for my Mississippi rednecks. I employ the KISS system. First of all, a field file shot linearly is just as accurate as shooting in x-section format. In the x-section format all you have to do is miss a shot and you are screwed.
We set up and shoot the EA.Then come back down line with the next feature, say CL of the road. Up and back, up and back. Move up to next setup. Repeat procedure using RECALL to tie everything together. Initially it took about 10% longer to do it this way. The office savings offset that initial burp by far. Now a crew that knows the system takes about the same amount of time as shooting x-sectionally.
Dent,

I guess because we've been doing it this way for years it doesn't seem complicated to us. You have me curious.

What's a "Field file shot" ?

I've had occasions where other surveyors have taken shots along a feature and the opposing shots of one edge of bitumen to the other have been mis-matched longitudinally on a short vertical curve, this lead to the cross section being inaccurate.

I think it's a bit of 6 of one half a dozen of another. What ever works best for the person doing the design.

I do however believe that the designer needs to get out on site and have a look at the job they're designing. We do most of our work locally so it's not that big a problem.

Always interesting to see how others do their work.

Dent Cermak

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2006, 08:31:08 AM »
A field book file SHOT linearly. In other words my x-sections that follow the features. That draws the line sequentially. Creating a batch sequence with x-section shots gets complicated.The way we do it, the party chief just has to keep track of the recall point numbers.
But again, it all boils down to what makes sense to you and what you can get the field crews to do.

Jeff_M

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2006, 11:23:02 AM »
Craig and Dent,
Thanks so much for the detailed descriptions. I've printed them out to go over with the field crew.

I must say I sure am leaning towards Dent's approach to the codes. A quick glance tells what the point is vs. needing to memorize dozens of numerical codes.

Thanks again,
Jeff

Craig Davis

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2006, 06:35:51 PM »
Craig and Dent,
Thanks so much for the detailed descriptions. I've printed them out to go over with the field crew.

I must say I sure am leaning towards Dent's approach to the codes. A quick glance tells what the point is vs. needing to memorize dozens of numerical codes.

Thanks again,
Jeff
Jeff,

The codes really isn't a biggy in all of it. I must admit I've thought about going back to alpha's for the codes, but the numerical system was first created by our state roads board and used by many different councils and companies. It's not as common anymore but I can pull most of the descriptions from my memory after using them for so many years.

We're getting the new pc's soon so we'll then load up the new Civil3D so then hopefully I'll get a chance at seeing what the survey package in Civil3D is like. We may be able to do away with our 3rd party program.

Once you get the surveyors to change to the new system you wont go back, and neither should they.

Good luck. If you have any questions let me know.

Craig

Dent Cermak

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2006, 07:07:59 PM »
I am not sure what comes in Civil3D, but my 2007 copy of Land Development Desktop is a LDD disk, a Survey disk and a Civil3D disk. I don't see where they have all been combined yet. OH, the other cool thing; these are cor cd's, they are dvd's. Your cd reader is now an antique. No dvd reader, no load up. That stinks. BUT now I have a good argument for adding a dvd reader.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 08:37:40 PM by Dent Cermak »

Jeff_M

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2006, 08:00:07 PM »
C3D has Survey built-in :-) Although the DataCollectorLink is no longer a part of the software.
Quote from: Help
You can use data collectors to convert collected data to field book files and subsequently import the data into Autodesk Civil 3D.

Data collectors are available with third party software including the Trimble Link, Carlson Connect, and Leica X-Change supplemental tools, which can be linked to from the Additional Tools page of the Civil 3D Media Browser or you can obtain them from the Autodesk Civil 3D Partner Products website.

Dent Cermak

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2006, 12:25:32 PM »
The data collector links come with LDD and the survey pack.

Dent Cermak

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Re: AUTO LINE DRAW
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2006, 02:19:29 PM »
Clarification: LDD comes with the Civil3D Civil Design Companion. And the only disc that is dvd id the LDD disk. HOWEVER, they give you a web site www.autiodeskmediarequest.com where you can get a copy on CD. One copy per seat. So, if you do not have a dvd, there's no need to get one. dang it!