Topic: Attached Drawing Query to include "On" Layers (including XREFs)

[pacohaas]

I hope I'm asking this right as this is my first post here:

Ok, in Autodesk, if you attach a drawing to the current drawing and define a query of attached Drawings, you can do all sorts of things, except what I'd like to do: Bring in all linework on the layers that are "ON" from the attached drawing, including xref'd layers that are ON.  The idea is to have a self-contained version of a specific drawing that wouldn't require the xrefs, something we could send without worrying about sending every XREF as well.  Similar to exporting to DWF, but keeping the dwg format and layers.  I would imagine the layers to keep names like: XREFDRAWING!LAYER(changing the "|" to "!" so it is a valid layer name) so you could still tell where they came from originally.

I don't know if maybe there's some query option that I'm not seeing that could take care of this, but if not, it seems like something that could be done by someone a little more experienced with LISP than myself(and quite possibly already has been done)

Any ideas are appreciated and if I wasn't clear on something just ask, it makes sense in my head, but maybe I didn't convey it properly.  Thanks!

[zoltan]

Autodesk what? AutoCAD?

Are you talking about BINDing the xref? It makes the layer name XREF$0$LAYER.

[pacohaas]

yes sorry I am very new to AutoCAD(but not new to programming) and only know a little about the history of Autodesk products.  I use Land Desktop and Land Enabled Map 2005.

I checked out BINDing and it seems to be what I am looking to do.  I will keep poking around, but for now this seems to be the solution I was looking for, thanks!

[ronjonp]

Not an answer to your question....but you might want to look into ETRANSMIT. IMO....binding files is the work of the devil.

[zoltan]

I'm going to agree with ronjon on this one!

eTransmit all the way!!

[dan19936]

I'm going to agree with ronjon on this one!

eTransmit all the way!!

Unless you're exporting to a non-AutoCAD program, such as Sketchup. Binding is the only way to go. Then I delete frozen layers using:
http://www.theswamp.org/forum/index.php?topic=3069.msg38225#msg38225

Dan

[pacohaas]

ok, Binding is actually going to be the way to go here as it creates smaller files and what we really want is more of a "snapshot" of a project at a certain time that can be edited independently that will not change when the xrefs are changed for other drawings.  Like I said, similar almost to DWF, but in the DWG format.

Here's where the lisp is going to come in though: Once all xrefs have been BINDed and the new DWG file Saved As, we would like to "optionally" merge all the XXXXX0$0LAYER layers to a single LAYER...........

.....ok, while typing this, i think i answered my own question, using the "Insert" type instead of "Bind" in the BIND xrefs dialog.

[ronjonp]

ok, Binding is actually going to be the way to go here as it creates smaller files...

If you bind a drawing, it takes all the other drawing and puts them into one. I have never seen the file size reduced.

Drawing1 = 1 meg
5 reference files each = 1 meg
Bound drawing1 size now = 6 megs

Ron

[dan19936]

...what we really want is more of a "snapshot" of a project at a certain time that can be edited independently that will not change when the xrefs are changed for other drawings. 

if that's the case, then etransmit to a zip file in an archive folder is the only way to go. there is no sense saving a bound drawing for future editing purposes. if you need to go 'back in time', then either pull from backup or your archives and maintain your normal workflow & file organization

[pacohaas]

If you bind a drawing, it takes all the other drawing and puts them into one. I have never seen the file size reduced.

Drawing1 = 428KB
XREF1 = 1882KB
XREF2 = 149KB
XREF3 = 1452KB

Etransmit size=3991KB (3042KB zipped)

Bound(Bind) Drawing1 = 2721KB
Bound(Insert) Drawing1 = 2698KB

I wasn't just making stuff up, I actually saw a significant(30%) file size decrease.


@dan19936: actually I think binding does make sense for us. Typically this would be used if we wanted a preliminary map really quick that would be based off our initial topography or whatever.  If linework was later added to the xrefs, we would still want to see what we had submitted, OR if we got it back from a client a few days later and they just wanted to see a few small changes(not all our new linework or new topo), we could just go back to the Bound drawing and make those changes and give them a print.

Most cases I would agree with you, and I think we will actually just be using PDFs for most cases, but like I said before it makes smaller files than an etransmit so we can use the binding(insert or not) to create an editable "snapshot".

sorry guys for posting this here, as it turned out to not be a lisp deal at all....I have a lot of Autocad to learn.

[ronjonp]

I'm still not seeing the 30% decrease.....are you taking into acount all the fonts, colortables, shapefiles...etc. that etransmit grabs as well?

My most recent test:

Code: [Select]

   =============================================
   base-bound.dwg                        6561 KB    2/23/2006 03:37:08 PM      a
   base-xref.dwg                         1075 KB    2/23/2006 03:36:48 PM      a
   xr1.dwg                               1073 KB    2/23/2006 03:37:50 PM      a
   xr2.dwg                               1074 KB    2/23/2006 03:37:48 PM      a
   xr3.dwg                               1074 KB    2/23/2006 03:37:46 PM      a
   xr4.dwg                               1073 KB    2/23/2006 03:37:42 PM      a
   xr5.dwg                               1074 KB    2/23/2006 03:37:38 PM      a


  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Total 0 folder(s); 7 file(s)

  Total files size: 13 MB; 13007 KB; 13319220 Bytes

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[pacohaas]

I'm still not seeing the 30% decrease.....are you taking into acount all the fonts, colortables, shapefiles...etc. that etransmit grabs as well?

nope, that would have made the etransmit even bigger

Here's another set I have:

Drawing1: 405KB
XREF1: 73KB
XREF2: 82KB
XREF3: 121KB
Total:  678KB(zipped etransmit: 557KB)

Bound(Insert): 590KB


I'm sure that Binding, like compression, has a lot to do with the content being Bound.  If you have a different raster image in each of your XREF's you aren't going to see any decrease in filesize by binding them, but if all you have is linework, some on the same layers in each xref, then when you merge them all into one drawing with merged(insert) layers(which is why the Insert version was less than the Bind version in my previous trial), you're going to see a size drop simply because the total number of layers is less.  Compression is a very interesting topic to me, so I'm glad I brought this up if only to touch on this aspect of our problem.

[ronjonp]

Here is the latest with a zipped etransmit:

Code: [Select]

   =============================================
   base-bound.dwg                        6562 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:20 PM      a
   base-insert.dwg                       6553 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:16 PM      a
   base-xref - etransmit.zip             5904 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:48 PM      a
   base-xref.dwg                         1054 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:36 PM      a
   xr1.dwg                               1073 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:10 PM      a
   xr2.dwg                               1074 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:06 PM      a
   xr3.dwg                               1073 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:04 PM      a
   xr4.dwg                               1074 KB    2/23/2006 04:32:00 PM      a
   xr5.dwg                               1073 KB    2/23/2006 04:31:58 PM      a


  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Total 0 folder(s); 9 file(s)

  Total files size: 25 MB; 25445 KB; 26055867 Bytes

  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[pacohaas]

you never said, do your xrefs have some complex data in them somehow? some raster images or something?  Try a set that just has linework.

[dan19936]

...OR if we got it back from a client a few days later and they just wanted to see a few small changes(not all our new linework or new topo), we could just go back to the Bound drawing and make those changes and give them a print.

if you make changes to an old version, do you make the same changes to the current file?
sounds like you know what you're doing, I just like CAD guidelines that are very simple to explain to all the staff

[pacohaas]

I agree dan, like I said I am new to Autocad, so these requirements aren't coming from me.  They didn't even think of saving a PDF until I brought it up and I think the more they think about it, the more they'll realize that is the way to go because like you said, it doesn't make sense most of the time to make a change to an old drawing that you wouldn't want reflected in a new one.  I think what they're more worried about is the opposite: making a change in a new drawing that would be reflected in an old one, in which case PDF/DWF/Etransmit is the way to go, unless for whatever reason they'd want to change that "snapshot" independently of any new changes, in which case BINDing will suffice.  The reason I posted it here was that my boss came to me and asked if I could write a routine to query each layer in xrefs and copy everything from each "ON" layer to the current drawing, props to zoltan for the quick and dirty(clean?) solution to my original problem.

[ronjonp]

you never said, do your xrefs have some complex data in them somehow? some raster images or something?  Try a set that just has linework.

The data in the drawings is an array of a 4 point polyline (14000 of them). Nothing complex.

[pacohaas]

That's weird, I just made some drawings with arrays of 14400 4 point polylines each:

02/24/2006  08:04 AM           291,048 array1.dwg
02/24/2006  08:07 AM           295,151 array2.dwg
02/24/2006  08:04 AM           291,048 Copy of array1.dwg
02/24/2006  08:07 AM           295,151 Copy of array2.dwg
02/24/2006  08:20 AM           968,779 Drawing1 BIND.dwg
02/24/2006  08:21 AM           966,100 Drawing1 Insert.dwg
02/24/2006  08:18 AM            99,191 Drawing1.dwg
               7 File(s)      3,206,468 bytes

Total of 5 non-bound drawings: 1,271,589 bytes

I'm sure the difference has to do with the specific content though, as does all compression.

[Dinosaur]

I don't know if there is still any interest in finding an answer to the original question in this thread, but I have a suggestion that may work and avoid all of the binding of xrefs, etc.  It will only work if you can still open and save all of the drawings.  If you first open the xref and original drawings and make a group out of a selection set of all the visible objects in each, you should then be able to query those groups into your new drawing with "location all" and "property | layer | *" and "property |group | the new group names".  This is untested, but I think it should work.

EDIT

Upon reflection, there are a few things I must add.  First, I am sure you will have to attach both original drawings to the drawing set.  Also, there will be some problems with the original xref.  You most likely will have to change the drawing to have all of the properties match in both and make sure all of the layer visibility is the same.  This may be a non issue or a prohibitive chore depending on how different the layer states are in each and the visretain settings.  Any changes you make will have to be saved, so you may also have to make copies or restore backups after you are finished.