Author Topic: xref control  (Read 5071 times)

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ryandk

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xref control
« on: October 28, 2005, 05:22:19 PM »
So, we have this guy here who xrefs the model files into a "master" model file that is then xreffed into the sheets.  He goes to the sheet and then unloads whichever xrefs he doesn't want in that particular sheet.  Well, this used to work when we were using adt3.0.  Not so much any more.  Now, no matter what he unloads, saves, then reopens the sheet file, all the xrefs will be as they are in the "master" file. 

I realize this is expected perfomance, as far as I'm aware, but I'm wondering (because this is going to cause a problem for everysheet they have and the project was for a completely new city college campus so it's many) if there is a control for this type of situation that will allow the sheet file to make the model files its sally?

Ryan

Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2005, 05:23:42 PM »
visretain

ryandk

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Re: xref control
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2005, 06:33:42 PM »
I should have mentioned that but I typed too long and forgot.  I had tried visretain to no avail.  I think it just dictates xref layer control no control over the xref period. 

I could be wrong, so if this was more than a suggestion and you know I'm wrong please tell me.

Thanks,
Ryan

Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2005, 06:54:28 PM »
The only way that I could duplicate your problem was by setting visretain to 0.  When I set it to 1, the xrefs stay unloaded.  2k6 but I'm pretty sure it's been that way since r14 at least.

DinØsaur

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Re: xref control
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2005, 07:20:31 PM »
From "help"
visretain set to 0:
The layer table, as stored in the reference drawing (xref), takes precedence. Changes made to xref-dependent layers in the current drawing are valid in the current session only and are not saved with the drawing. When the current drawing is reopened, the layer table is reloaded from the reference drawing and the current drawing reflects those settings. The layer settings affected are On, Off, Freeze, Thaw, Color, Ltype, LWeight, and PStyle (if PSTYLEPOLICY is set to 0).
 
visretain set to 1
Xref-dependent layer changes made in the current drawing take precedence. Layer settings are saved with the current drawing’s layer table and persist from session to session.
 
the bottom line . . .
If you set visretain to "0" in your working drawing, when you reload the xref or open the working drawing, it will display all of the xref layers in their last saved state in the source drawing.  Any changes you made to them in your working drawing will have been lost.
If you set visretain to "1" in your working drawing, when you reload the xref or open the working drawing, it will display all of the xref layers in their last saved state in the working drawing.  Any changes you made to them in your working will be preserved.  Any new xref layers will be displayed  their last saved state in the source drawing.
Stephen R. Sherrill,
The DinØsaur
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Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2005, 07:28:15 PM »
I know that the help says that but in my testing, changing system variables visretain also affected the load state of nested xrefs.




editted to sound less pissy.  Sorry
« Last Edit: October 28, 2005, 07:39:34 PM by Bob Wahr »

DinØsaur

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Re: xref control
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2005, 08:04:26 PM »
I know that the help says that but in my testing, changing system variables visretain also affected the load state of nested xrefs.




editted to sound less pissy. Sorry
I thought we were saying pretty much the same thing.  As far as I can tell, visetain "1" will maintain all layer properties you have previously set in that drawing.  I do not work much with nested xrefs, using the overlay option instead to bring in each one separately.  I would still expect to see even a nested xref layer to maintain the properties I gave it with visretain 1.  If it does not work this way that is one more reason for me to use overlay instead of attach for xrefs.
Stephen R. Sherrill,
The DinØsaur
Civil 3D Specialist Emeritus

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Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2005, 08:21:25 PM »
He's not talking about layer states though.  He's saying that drawing a,b,c,d, & e are xreffed as attachments to drawing Z.

Drawing Z is xreffed into drawing 1.  In drawing 1, a, c, & e are unloaded so a listing would show

A   Unloaded
B   Loaded
C   Unloaded
D   Loaded
E   Unloaded
Z   Loaded

The documented effects of visretain shouldn't affect this at all but with the admittedly limited testing I did If visretain is 1 and the drawing is saved, closed, and opened, the will list this way.  With visretain set to 0, when the drawing is reopened, they are all loaded.  Actually, I believe that whether they are loaded or not depends on their loaded status in Z.

I think that's his problem.  Of course, I think that this post made sense so what do I know.

DinØsaur

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Re: xref control
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2005, 08:34:17 PM »
We never unload the xref. - each is inserted on its own layer so it can be frozen or thawed as needed.  With visretain at 1 and using the overlay option everything stays constant until a new layer appears on the source drawing.
Stephen R. Sherrill,
The DinØsaur
Civil 3D Specialist Emeritus

YAY ME !!!  I made it out alive !

ryandk

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Re: xref control
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 06:05:57 PM »
With visretain set to 1 (not that I think visretain has much to do with this) I can put xref file 1 into 2 then 2 into 3.  At this point I can see everything.  Now, while I'm in 3 I unload file 1, save, and close.  Upon reopening file 1 is still not loaded.  I think this is what you guys were talking about.

Now, I think this other guy here has 1 xreffed into 2 but 1 is unloaded.  File 2 is then xreffed into 3 as before.  Now it is here that he wants to change 1 from being unloaded to loaded.

Thanks for the E thoughts on this one.

whdjr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2005, 10:34:49 AM »
Read up on Xref Attach versus Overlay.  They can be changed on the fly in the xref manager by double clicking their value.

Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2005, 10:43:14 AM »
With visretain set to 1 (not that I think visretain has much to do with this) I can put xref file 1 into 2 then 2 into 3. At this point I can see everything. Now, while I'm in 3 I unload file 1, save, and close. Upon reopening file 1 is still not loaded. I think this is what you guys were talking about.
Now I'm lost.  I thought this was what you wanted.  Do you want it to
1) put xref file 1 into 2
2) then 2 into 3
3) unload file 1
4) save, and close

Then open the drawing and 1 is loaded again?  If that's what you want it to do try setting visretain to 0.

ryandk

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Re: xref control
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2005, 11:47:34 AM »
I realize this whole thing is a little unclear but the guy who brought this problem to me has a legitamate arguement.  This was possible in adt 3.0, I just did what he described successfully in 3.0.

File 1 xreffed into file 2 then unload file 1 (unloaded but still attached).  Open file 3 and xref file 2 into it.  At this point you have native file 2 objects showing.  File 1 objects are not.  Now, reload file 1 while in file 3.  Now, objects from 1 and 2 appear in 3.  This is the end goal.  close, reopen file 3 and in ADT3.0 the objects from 1 and 2 will still show but in 2004 this has not been the case.

 

Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2005, 12:26:52 PM »
OK, with that scenario, I get the same result as you.  That's odd.  The best I can give you as a workaround is to have all of the xrefs loaded in the master drawing and unload what you don't need in the sheets.  The load/unload state seems to work as expected in that case.  Sorry.

ryandk

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Re: xref control
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2005, 12:36:07 PM »
Yeah, that's the only workaround I can think of too.  I went over the the guy this morning to see if there was a reason why they had done it this way and not just loaded all the xrefs into the master model file.  He started talking about xclipped stair plans and after that all I heard was noise.  Long story short there was a reason (wise or not) for doing so and it would be a long issue to correct.  I believe this has actually been shot up to autodesk.  I'll let you guys know what their response will be.

Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2005, 12:40:18 PM »
Well, considering that it works the same in 2006 as 2004, it will be one of these three
Quote from: Autodesk
Blah blah known issue blah future release blah blah.
Quote from: Autodesk
Blah blah blah desired behavior.
or
Quote from: Autodesk

whdjr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2005, 02:15:10 PM »
Ok, here's your scenario:  Xref 'A' into 'B'.  Xref 'B' into 'C'.  Then when you don't want to see 'A' you just unload 'A' in 'C'.

Here is a workaround (although cumbersome):  Xref 'A' into 'B' and 'B' into 'C'.  When you don't want 'A' in 'C' open 'B' and change xreftype (just double-click type in the xref manager)  to "overlay' for 'A'.  Then save 'B' and reload 'B' in 'C'.

Easy right?  Not really but it is a workaround.

Hope this helps,

Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2005, 02:40:07 PM »
can you change the xreftype of a nested xref?  I'm thinking not.

whdjr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2005, 02:54:07 PM »
can you change the xreftype of a nested xref?  I'm thinking not.
You change the xreftype in 'B' (hence the reason I said cumbersome).

I didn't say it was a good or better way just another way.
 :-)

Bob Wahr

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Re: xref control
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2005, 02:56:05 PM »
true dat.