Author Topic: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta  (Read 26682 times)

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dbeach

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« on: July 22, 2005, 04:24:22 PM »
Hi,

Does anyone have a Lisp. that creates an arc by length, radius, and Delta letting me choose the first point?

Thanks,
Devon

Dinosaur

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2005, 05:31:50 PM »
I think you will need to specify two more pieces of information to get an accurate curve for survey purposes - either the initial tangent bearing or radius bearing and the direction (left or right) of the curve.

Anonymous

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2005, 01:22:55 PM »
I have a plan in front of me and given a line:

N64(degrees)00'00" Length: 40.61'

Then curve 1:
Delta:90(degrees)
Radius: 40'
Length: 62.83'

Curve 2:
Delta: 44(degrees)
Radius: 58.21'
Length 44.70'

so on and so on....

Dent Cermak

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2005, 01:39:33 PM »
what you have is called "nothing". It's all fine and good to have the radius, delta and arc length, but you can do NOTHING without the chord direction (bearing) and distance. what you are saying is "I have point number one and this spiffy curve data to get to Point Number 2, But i really DO NOT know where point number 2 is."
You can compute all of the curve data remaining(tangent, chord distance, etc.) with no real problem, but if you do not already have Points 2,3, etc. , well Dude, you're screwed.
If the "experts' tell you that you have all you need, ask them for the deflection angle to point 2. Their eyes will glaze over.  :twisted:

Mark

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2005, 01:47:34 PM »
If I don't see a chord bearing then I can only assume it's a tangent curve and go from there. Otherwise punt!
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Dent Cermak

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2005, 01:48:58 PM »
multiple tangent curves!! OOOOOHH!! He's SO screwed!!

Mark

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2005, 01:51:00 PM »
Quote from: Dent Cermak
multiple tangent curves!! OOOOOHH!! He's SO screwed!!

How so? I deal with multiple tangent curves all the time; as in subdivisions.
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Dent Cermak

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2005, 01:59:57 PM »
Because the odds of the next curve's tangent being 90 degrees off the last is so slim. In our S/D plats they have to back up the lot line curves with a noted interior angle.(chord to property sidelot line). They don't allow more than 2 tangent curves and even then you have show either bearings or the interior angle to assist. matter of fact, our new regs state that all lines will have a BEARING and distance. Makes life so much easier. And now they are letting us BEGIN at GPS points! way cool. We still must state Quarter Section, but if no corner has been set, or is in place we no longer have to traverse 2 miles to tie it all down. State Plane coordinates rule!!
The engineers tell me that if they have 2 curves like that, they now have to have a short tangent section between the curves. i don't know why, but it makes sense to me.

Dinosaur

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Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2005, 12:02:40 AM »
I have had only limited luck producing the exact curve I need with the chord and choird bearing as well Dent.  Unless you start with an EXACT bearing to base everything from rather than connect two points and list it as most everyone tends to do, any interior bearings that are not offsets or perpendiculars to your original baseline will be ever so close but not perfect.  If I don't have both tangents to a curve established, I will construct it with a perpendicular radius from the last point, rotate it per the delta angle, draw the curve and then prodeed along the tangent of the curve.  If the both tangents have been established, I fillet the exact radius and let the line segments absorb any length error.  These are the only two methods I am sure will produce curves that are precisely tangent and eliminate minute gaps and overlaps in lines and arcs offset from them.

sinc

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2005, 10:16:28 AM »
Does anyone have a Lisp. that creates an arc by length, radius, and Delta letting me choose the first point?
Since you're posting this question in the Land Lubber forum, I'm assuming you have Land Desktop...

Land Desktop has a slew of options for creating lines, curves, compound curves, line/curves from the ends of other lines/curves, etc.  Why do you need a lisp routine?

Dent Cermak

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2005, 02:02:48 PM »
Because the LDD stuff is like "Start, End, Radius". He has the "start', he has the "radius' but he doesn't have the "end" info. it takes a minimum of 3 elements to do an atc or a curve. GHe's wanting to do it with only 2 elements. SOL Duse.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2005, 08:45:32 PM »
Hi,

Does anyone have a Lisp. that creates an arc by length, radius, and Delta letting me choose the first point?

Thanks,
Devon

Have a look at this on progress.....

Dinosaur

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2005, 09:19:56 PM »
Luis,
I can not tell from your options how it would work for subdivision layouts, but I can certainly see its value for recreating a lot like we have to do for staking house locations and for doing a mapcheck for closure.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2005, 09:38:11 PM »
Luis,
I can not tell from your options how it would work for subdivision layouts,

Hi,

Do you have a sample drawing I can use?....

This utility has 18 method's to draw arcs.


Thanks.

Dinosaur

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2005, 10:20:24 PM »
Luis,
HERE is a stripped down subdivision layout that I think contains some areas with curves that have been created incorrectly.  I posted some of my methodology used to keep these errors to a minimum earlier in this thread.  This was taken from a base sheet in Civil 3d, but I exported to a r2000 format.  You can ignore any warnings about proxy objects - all have been removed.
The house stakeouts I mentioned would be recreated with completely new linework drawn only with the course information from the recorded plat which in nearly all circumstances has some degree of rounding area in every course.  The difference from the starting point and ending point of this traverse provides the data needed for the mapcheck analysis.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2005, 10:46:49 PM »
Luis,
HERE is a stripped down subdivision layout that I think contains some areas with curves that have been created incorrectly.  I posted some of my methodology used to keep these errors to a minimum earlier in this thread.  This was taken from a base sheet in Civil 3d, but I exported to a r2000 format.  You can ignore any warnings about proxy objects - all have been removed.
The house stakeouts I mentioned would be recreated with completely new linework drawn only with the course information from the recorded plat which in nearly all circumstances has some degree of rounding area in every course.  The difference from the starting point and ending point of this traverse provides the data needed for the mapcheck analysis.

I just ran a test with GBPOLY and it draws every single linework [the closed polylines], in a flash and ignores overlapping.

I am about to start doing tests using ARCDRAW and see how the methods works.... If I need an specific data, I let you know, or if you now of an area or an arc, that you want me to test in particular, I want to know too.

Thanks.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2005, 10:53:15 PM »
Have a look at this revision made using GBPOLY, let me know after you download the drawing if I have to removed.

Thanks.

Dinosaur

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2005, 11:22:29 PM »
I just downloaded the file Luis, I will check it out.  I am sure that the GBPOLY will take care of any cleanup work at the single lot level.  What I am wondering about with your curve routine is if it is able to force absolute tangents when drawing a curve that may span several lot frontages.  I will do this with a fillet if the next tangent course has been fixed which results in rounding errors for the lengths but forces the tangent bearings and curve information to result in true tangency.  In cases where the next course is not fixed by other geometry I construct the curve with perpendiculars with radii and central angles  as provided again providing true tangents.  If these precautions are not taken, elements offset from the geometry introduce the gaps and overlaps you found.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2005, 11:37:04 PM »
I just did, the test using the method P1P2F [startpoint-endpoint-archeight] and works, I might used any other of the methods provided by ArcDraw, but as far being a quick test, it would do the job, all the 18 methods are pure mathematical and geometry analytic solutions.

I hope to finish this add-on demo soon, so you and any other could have a look and test the routines.


Thanks.
Luis.

Dinosaur

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2005, 12:03:07 AM »
I am looking forward to putting this tool through some paces.  I know that at minimum our stakeout drafter's job will be less complicated with it and I would like to abandon my tedious curve construction as well.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2005, 09:49:40 PM »
I am looking forward to putting this tool through some paces.  I know that at minimum our stakeout drafter's job will be less complicated with it and I would like to abandon my tedious curve construction as well.

 :-)

I almost done... here is a list including all the methods I have worked...

(C) 2005 ArcDraw by GeometriCAD

Methods:

1. (PI-P2-LA) StartPoint-EndPoint-ArcLength
2. (P1-P2-F) StartPoint-EndPoint-ArcHeight
3. (P1-C-LA) StartPoint-Center-ArcLength
4. (P2-C-LA) EndPoint-Center-ArcLength
5. (P1-P2-DELTA) StartPoint-EndPoint-Delta
6. (P1-C-DELTA) StartPoint-Center-Delta
7. (P2-C-DELTA) EndPoint-Center-Delta
8. (P1-P2-P3) StartPoint-EndPoint-MidPoint
9. (P1-P2-C) StartPoint-EndPoint-Center
10. (P1-C-LC) StartPoint-Center-ChordLength
11. (P2-C-LC) EndPoint-Center-ChordLength
12. (P1-P2-R) StartPoint-EndPoint-Radius
13. (P1-P2-D) StartPoint-EndPoint-Deflection
14. (P1-P2-STAN) StartPoint-EndPoint-SubTangent
15. EndPoint-ArcTangent
16. StartPoint-ArcTangent
17. (PT-C1-R1) TangentPoint-Chord-Radius
18. (PT-C2-R2) TangentPoint-Chord-Radius

No time now to post all the method images [they can be seen on my earlier animated gif attachment]

Dinosaur

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2005, 10:08:38 PM »
Excellent!  I was not able to follow all of the choices in your annimation . . . there appear to be several options that would work well for my curve problems.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2005, 01:09:51 PM »
Question ?

The angle input in English what do you named when using:

Degrees:
Minutes:
Seconds:

I called that "sexagesimal" what is the term in English?

Also, I use "centesimal" what would be that? and if it is useful to added as an option.
i.e.
Degrees centecimals:

Thank you.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2005, 01:34:23 PM »
Question ?

The angle input in English what do you named when using:

Degrees:
Minutes:
Seconds:

I called that "sexagesimal" what is the term in English?

Also, I use "centesimal" what would be that? and if it is useful to added as an option.
i.e.
Degrees centecimals:

Thank you.

Sexagecimal and Decimal
Are the appropriate term names?

Dinosaur

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2005, 01:51:18 PM »
The most common terminology for what I think you are asking is "DMS" format for "sexagesimal" and "Decimal Degrees" for "centesimals".  DMS format is much more common for surveying although I know of some firms that require the decimal format.  I do not know the preference of other disciplines, but would suspect they prefer to work with decimals as they are easier to compute and there is usually no need to tie into survey lines based on DMS Bearings.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2005, 02:14:27 PM »
The most common terminology for what I think you are asking is "DMS" format for "sexagesimal" and "Decimal Degrees" for "centesimals".  DMS format is much more common for surveying although I know of some firms that require the decimal format.  I do not know the preference of other disciplines, but would suspect they prefer to work with decimals as they are easier to compute and there is usually no need to tie into survey lines based on DMS Bearings.

Perfect ! - got it...

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2005, 05:42:00 PM »
Here is the url link to download ArcDraw...

http://www.geometricad.com/app.php?id=5&lang=en

It is a full working DEMO that runs for 15 days.

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2005, 10:38:25 PM »
I forgot to include the following file, here is:


Mark

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2005, 12:48:46 PM »
Here is the url link to download ArcDraw...

http://www.geometricad.com/app.php?id=5&lang=en

It is a full working DEMO that runs for 15 days.


That is some good stuff Luis. :-)
TheSwamp.org  (serving the CAD community since 2003)

LE

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Re: Draw arc by length, radius, and delta
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2005, 01:32:22 PM »