Author Topic: Storm And Sanitary Analysis  (Read 489 times)

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sljohnson

  • Newt
  • Posts: 26
Storm And Sanitary Analysis
« on: June 20, 2022, 05:18:19 PM »
Hello,

We have been using Autodesk's Hydrograph Extension (HHE) for basic stormwater modeling and avoiding Storm and Sanitary Analysis because we are unhappy with how poorly it handles structures, likely user error. Is there anyone who provides consultation and training on SSA? We've tried setting up the Export/Import matrix several times, and we have been unsatisfied with the results. We have watched training videos from several trainers and we see the utility of the program, we, collectively, haven't had the "Ah ha" moment where it just works and are able to share the knowledge amongst ourselves. Or is there a different SWMM clone that just works?

Sincerely,
Shannon

wizman

  • Bull Frog
  • Posts: 287
Re: Storm And Sanitary Analysis
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 12:20:01 AM »
Hi,  We use Bentley SewerGEMS.  Another options you might want to explore are the Innovyze's InfoDrainage & Infoworks ICM if you do a lot of import/export between Autodesk products.

kirby

  • Newt
  • Posts: 110
Re: Storm And Sanitary Analysis
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 08:50:27 AM »
We've been using various versions of PCSWMM since the late 80's / early 90's.  It is a well developed, mature product built on top of a GIS and (unlike Autodesk) the developer is extremely responsive to assisting users, adding or enhacing features and providing added value to SWMM 5 modeling.  Recent advancements have added Python scripting to interface with the model components and incorporated EPANET water modelling.   You can add your own design layers to the GIS, as well as all the background satellite photos, DEMS, base drawings, etc. that you'd expect from a GIS.

There are enhancements that diverge from EPA SWMM 5 and work only with PCSWMM (e.g. 2d surface flow modelling, alternative runoff methods, etc.), but you don't need to use these enhancements and can just use EPA SWMM 5.  The advantage of SWMM 5 is that it is free, open source software, has a very large user base and online help community, and you can hand over text input files to your clients (e.g. are not in a closed / commercial software format).   

However, there is no AutoCAD integration.  We've built our own (mostly Autolisp) tools to handle the Acad / Excel -> SWMM -> Acad / Excel interchange.

sljohnson

  • Newt
  • Posts: 26
Re: Storm And Sanitary Analysis
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2022, 11:40:17 AM »
Thank you wizeman and kirby,

How well do those programs handle the pipe catalog translation both ways? We use the same part family to represent some structures, example: a curb inlet and a junction box (R-6019 frame) are both in the "Rectangular Junction Structure NF" part family.

We tend to do large subdivisions (1/4 section) once or twice a year and multiple small subdivisions throughout the year.

Any intel of what the commercial products cost?

Sincerely,
Shannon

kirby

  • Newt
  • Posts: 110
Re: Storm And Sanitary Analysis
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2022, 09:18:02 AM »
Glad to help.

PCSWMM is a tool for running hydrologic and hydraulic analysis on surface or piped drainage systems.  It uses the EPA SWMM engine directly (vs. SSA that used a modified version of the SWMM engine).   You can do most of this type of work using the free, open source EPA SWMM, PCSWMM just has a better GUI, makes data and results more accessible, and generally makes the design/analysis process much quicker and easier.

Notes:
- It is an analysis tool, not a design tool (like the Rational Method) that will give you sewer sizes.  You use it by running multiple iterations of tweaking pipe diameters, etc. and observe the outcome in terms of flooding, pipe velocity, etc.
- No cost analysis or optimization of sewer size, depth, installation method and cost.
- Not a detailed design tool that will give you a finished drawing of a sewer profile.
- Not a detailing tool (e.g. that uses assemblies of precast concrete or other materials to generate manhole or catch basin buildups like C3D, culvert headwalls or riprap, etc.). 

Cost is $1600 CDN/seat (annual subscription). We have a number of folks who use it across many offices so have a network license ($4,400 base + $600 user CDN per year).

We use home-brewed tools to cost sewer systems, buildup manhole and catch basin assemblies using parts relevant to the jurisdiction, determine what diameter of manhole bases are required to suit the sizes of incoming sewers, etc.  We also do large and small subdivisions, new municipal sewer systems, and municipal combined sewer relief / sewer retrofit projects.