Author Topic: Nested Blocks Issue  (Read 10617 times)

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mjfarrell

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2015, 10:21:48 AM »
I've dramatically increased my use of AutoCAD blocks lately.

I work in multiple files, and I might do my designing in any one of them. Whatever my latest design update is, I need to be able to copy/paste stuff into other files. I need to keep propagating my new work into various files.

The issue is AutoCAD is designed to protect those files, as if my new work is a virus or something. But it's not. I need to be able to constantly overwrite outdated stuff with new, improved stuff.

My blocks are kind of complex. Lots of nesting. And I use copy/paste all the time. "Get more organized" with block naming, or filing (wblocks or xrefs) is not an option, for very practical reasons. I'm designing stuff. That stuff is in constant flux for quite a while, and it's not a linear process.

Any ideas? I don't ask this question casually - I've spent a lot of time searching the internet for practical answers. I've found none of any substance so far.
your process is the problem....XREFS will solve this problem

why are you reluctant to change your process to improve your workflow?

Very glad I do not have to perform your performance evaluation....pretty sure we would not be working together very long.

Your reluctance to at least try a best practice method is shocking 'novice' - you are getting advice from persons with considerably more experience
than yourself yet you will not even attempt to utilize their advice.

Clearly stated it isn't working for you, because you are doing it in a manner that does not work.

Move to Xrefs...Nest them as deeply as you want, and your new work, and or revisions will ALWAYS propagate as you expect them to.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Mark

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2015, 10:25:08 AM »
wow. you really know how to help someone.
TheSwamp.org  (serving the CAD community since 2003)

novice

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2015, 10:26:18 AM »
The responses I'm getting are starting to get kind of disturbing. People who know nothing about my work are insisting something is right just because it works for them. Let me say, for every person working with XREF's to that extent, there are hundreds working in other ways. My solution will likely be to back off on the use of blocks at the higher system levels.

We're here to help each other, right?

mjfarrell

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2015, 10:28:57 AM »
wow. you really know how to help someone.
some people  will accept a solution with no prodding...

others it might seem need to be hit over the head with a freight train

It poses the question;

If one is seeking help because they are having an issue....
and then fight so hard to defend the practice that is the source of the problem...

do they really want help?
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Rob...

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2015, 10:29:55 AM »
People who know nothing about my work are insisting something is right just because it works for them. Let me say, for every person working with XREF's to that extent, there are hundreds working in other ways.

Actually it is more likely that it is the other way around. For every person that is doing it without XREFs, there are thousands that are using them.
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dgorsman

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2015, 10:35:47 AM »
To be fair, the limited amount of detail you have provided limits the amount of help that can be provided.  And from what you have described XREFs are the way to go.

Not sure about "creative" work in the mechanical design field.  A bolt is a bolt, and isn't going to change.  Same with nuts, plate, and many objects.  Those are ideal for blocks.  If you have an arrangement which doesn't change much, then that is also ideal for an assembly type block - especially if its a one-off.  But if you have an arrangement which *might* need the occasional re-org and you want to propagate the changes automatically everywhere its used?  Yeah, XREF is the way to go.

XREFs, unlike blocks, don't necessarily need to have a fixed name.  A file XREF'd into one host may be called "Fred".  XREF'd into another host, the very same XREF may be called "Barney".  So naming conventions won't get in the way.  And XREFs can be nested under XREFs, along with other XREFs, provided a hugely flexible nesting arrangement.
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.

try {GreatPower;}
   catch (notResponsible)
      {NextTime(PlanAhead);}
   finally
      {MasterBasics;}

novice

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2015, 10:47:36 AM »
People who know nothing about my work are insisting something is right just because it works for them. Let me say, for every person working with XREF's to that extent, there are hundreds working in other ways.

Actually it is more likely that it is the other way around. For every person that is doing it without XREFs, there are thousands that are using them.
I use XREFs all the time. Are you under the impression I don't use them at all?

Rob...

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2015, 10:52:31 AM »
I understand why some of the other posts have put you on the defensive but I'm just trying to help.

So, far you have not said that you use them and you have stated that you aren't using them or even tried them for the purposes of this discussion.
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novice

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2015, 11:00:32 AM »
I understand why some of the other posts have put you on the defensive but I'm just trying to help.

So, far you have not said that you use them and you have stated that you aren't using them or even tried them for the purposes of this discussion.

I guess it's just kind of frustrating that people don't give me the benefit of the doubt. What I've said is that it doesn't make sense for me to use XREFs on such a massive scale, due to the beast it would create. I already have a better solution than that, by far, which is to simply back off on the use of blocks at the higher system levels. This solution is not ideal, though, and I thought maybe someone here could help. This hasn't worked out so far, but so what? I tried.

I realize there's only just so much I can do to explain my situation. So what? Why not take my word for it? What's at stake? Offer some insight on XREFs or whatever other solution might be an elegant one and feel good for doing it.

I appreciate your help. I appreciate everyone's help. But one size doesn't fit all, and I'm a smart guy too.

Jeff H

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2015, 11:10:42 AM »
Hey novice,

Reading your explanation I could see how xrefs would solve or possibly make it worst and depends on which process I assume your using.

Rob...

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2015, 11:13:10 AM »
The problem with your solution is that it does not work for the situation that you described, i.e. multiple users and multiple files. It could be made to work with the use of LISPs for automatically updating blocks and master files for those blocks. It is not an ideal solution but it does work. It will also require a change from your current flow and additional organization. I cannot advise you on this solution because I won't waste my time on such a work flow when there are better solutions.
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novice

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2015, 11:22:33 AM »
Thanks for your help Jeff and Rob.

Jeff H

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2015, 11:26:23 AM »
Found this, here at The Swamp.

The only thing missing for me when it comes to blocks is the ability to propagate my new work into my older work. That AutoCAD won't let me do this is a shame (though I do understand their fears). Worse though, is that I don't even get a warning that some nested block I'm inserting is being redefined without my knowledge. That is inexcusable.

Not sure how I will move forward at this point.
This is where I get lost.
The nested blocks are not getting redefined if there is already a definition for the block in the file.
So if you have a block called Machine with nested blocks PartA and PartB. PartA and PartB each have nested blocks ComponentA..... nested.

If you copy and paste machine block from one drawing to another it use any block that is already defined in drawing.
So if drawing already contains a PartA or component block it will use that one.

you would need to have a file for each nested block to overwrite existing
 

Like everyone else if this is workflow then xrefs would solve problem or need better explanation

57gmc

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2015, 12:24:00 PM »
Thanks for the response, 57gmc. Aside from the fact that I don't know what "OOTB" means, I understand your suggestion.
OOTB means "Out Of The Box". In other words, unless you can invest in custom programming, there aren't many options. You either have to redefine your blocks or use xrefs. You might consider Inventor. You can swap out parts and assemblies of parts, especially with Vault. However, keep in mind that since parts and assemblies are individual files, you are essentially using xrefs. But you do gain a nicer interface for dealing with all those files.

novice

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Re: Nested Blocks Issue
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2015, 01:42:46 PM »
Thank you for the kind suggestions, Jeff and 57gmc.

Jeff, I just can't provide a better explanation. It would take a ton of time I don't have, yet in the end I would probably still fail to communicate.

57gmc, your post makes a lot of sense to me, though nobody who does the same work I do feels that Inventor is fluid enough to solve these issues.