Author Topic: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags  (Read 7990 times)

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hudster

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Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« on: November 14, 2014, 05:14:47 AM »
The design team I'm on has an architect who has created his own custom room tag, Instead of using room name for the room name, he created a custom one called room description.  :idiot2:
Now when I link his model, make it room bounding, add my spaces and use the space naming utility, all the rooms have no name, because the room name value is blank.

He says its too far in to change it, having named almost 750 rooms, so is there a way I can set up a formula in the room tag to have Room Name = Room Description.

If not there is no way I'm filling in this information manually, so all our drawings will have no room names on them.
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 06:06:45 AM »
Change your space tag to read his parameters.

...Why are you using the space naming utility in the first place? You should have a space tag that reads the ROOM NAME and ROOM NUMBER parameter.
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Rob...

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 07:34:28 AM »
Mr. Se7en, are you saying there is no need for the space naming utility anymore?
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2014, 08:15:19 AM »
To get a room tag? There never was a need for that utility (Honestly, I just learned about it a year or two ago so I've never used it).  ...now, if you want "BIM" then yes there would be a need for that utility but most people don't do `BIM' so my answer will still have to be "no".
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Rob...

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2014, 08:18:50 AM »
So, are you using room tags and not even using spaces?
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 08:24:22 AM »
No. I use spaces. My space tag reads the ROOM NAME parameter and not the SPACE NAME parameter.

1. Open the space tag.
2. Select the top LABEL (the one that says SPACE NAME).
3. Hit the EDIT LABEL button at the top.
4. Use the ROOM NAME parameter (see the screen shot).
5. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 08:35:09 AM »
Attached is an adjusted space tag to do what I said above. This file is for Revit 2015.
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Rob...

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 08:40:57 AM »
I understand what you are saying but I think this is one of those things that confuses me about Revit. There are different ways for doing what seems to be the same thing.

Why can't we use the room names/numbers? Is it that not giving the spaces that room information would cause issues in scheduling or could space names/numbers be replaced with room info in schedules?

There has to be a reason why we have to jump through this hoop.
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2014, 08:57:37 AM »
I will try to help eliminate confusion.

My principle is to do as little effort as necessary so whenever I can I use what is already done instead of reproducing it [-i.e. in this case, the arch already typed the room names, why would I spend time retyping or "updating"]. The act of retyping or updating (with that space naming util) is way too many moving parts for me (too complicated and something will break or get forgotten).

Your schedules can certainly read the name and number parameters from the room instead of the space with zero chance of a problem.

However, when you get to using a load calc program (Carrier, Trane) you will have a problem in that all your spaces won't have names so you would have to use something like the space naming util or just fly blind and re-import when done. Although if you've tried using Trace with gbXML files in the past you will already know that there is a problem or two using Trace from a gbXML file and try to avoid this in the first place...

Typically, I don't care what my space name/numbers are. I do create them and use zones as well. My schedules read the room name/number parameters. I never have to "update" space names.

Help any?
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Rob...

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2014, 09:04:34 AM »
Sort of helps...

I like your thinking/methodology.

So, within Revit, there is no use for space names/numbers that could not be done with that room info. It only comes into play for other programs.
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2014, 09:15:07 AM »
Thanks. me too. :p

For the most part. Obviously the built in load calc program would be effected as well but most of your input is done with a schedule(s) or the plan views so it isn't that bad. And, I still don't trust that built in calc engine yet; the best I've ever gotten was a 10% difference from Trace (I dislike Trace as well but...). BTW, do you do use the gbXML format for loads?
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hudster

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 09:20:41 AM »
We export the building as GBXML data so our M&E engineers can use it for the simulation programs, so we need to have the spaces names as per room name and number so they can find what they need to
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Rob...

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 09:22:02 AM »
As far as I know, we are not using any calc programs for sizing.

I'm not sure what is used for loads.
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 09:24:13 AM »
We export the building as GBXML data so our M&E engineers can use it for the simulation programs, so we need to have the spaces names as per room name and number so they can find what they need to

Looks like you better start typing. :/

As far as I know, we are not using any calc programs for sizing.

I'm not sure what is used for loads.

You should be fine.
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Rob...

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 09:29:34 AM »
You should be fine.

Thank you but we won't be switching as we "plan" on using that stuff and are setting up our standards in anticipation of when we get to that point, years from now.
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hudster

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2014, 09:36:07 AM »
Change your space tag to read his parameters.

...Why are you using the space naming utility in the first place? You should have a space tag that reads the ROOM NAME and ROOM NUMBER parameter.

How would I do that, I exported his shared parameter file, imported the Room Description to my space tag, then added it to my space, added it to the project parameters, set it to room and space categories, and all i get is a "?".

What have i missed?
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2014, 09:42:44 AM »
You should be fine.

Thank you but we won't be switching as we "plan" on using that stuff and are setting up our standards in anticipation of when we get to that point, years from now.

Then my advice would be to plan on using the built in calc engine or Carrier HAP.
  • HAP has better gbXML support.
  • The built in calc engine is very good (the only problems I had with it are because of the built in wall and window types really).
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Krushert

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2014, 09:42:52 AM »

How would I do that, I exported his shared parameter file, imported the Room Description to my space tag, then added it to my space, added it to the project parameters, set it to room and space categories, and all i get is a "?".

What have i missed?



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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2014, 09:45:35 AM »
Change your space tag to read his parameters.

...Why are you using the space naming utility in the first place? You should have a space tag that reads the ROOM NAME and ROOM NUMBER parameter.

How would I do that, I exported his shared parameter file, imported the Room Description to my space tag, then added it to my space, added it to the project parameters, set it to room and space categories, and all i get is a "?".

What have i missed?

Is his parameter a project parameter attached to the ROOMs or is it a shared parameter attached to the TAG family?
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hudster

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2014, 09:46:40 AM »
Got it, i was still adding it as a space tag, when i added a room tag it got it right.

It'll be good enough for sheets, no good for the gbxml though  :-(
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2014, 10:11:37 AM »
Got it, i was still adding it as a space tag, when i added a room tag it got it right.

It'll be good enough for sheets, no good for the gbxml though  :-(

Nope, it won't. You will have to retype them.
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hudster

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2014, 10:14:14 AM »
Yeah, I'm just realising that.

I can tag individual rooms, but I can't "tag all untagged". and its useless for the GBMXL.
I hate "some" architects :knuppel2:
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2014, 10:14:55 AM »
...

Video does it better.
Ho! Ha ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust! Sproing!

lol ...I miss those cartoons.

BTW, that vid can be re-titled as the plight of Revit MEP.
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2014, 10:17:48 AM »
Yeah, I'm just realising that.

I can tag individual rooms, but I can't "tag all untagged". and its useless for the GBMXL.
I hate "some" architects :knuppel2:

I hear that! I have an Arch right now using Generic model, Specialty Equipment, Lines, and Plumbing fixture for all the plumbing fixtures (and CAD too). *sigh*
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hudster

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2014, 10:27:00 AM »
I think this might be the same Architects.
His RWPs are plumbing fixtures, but so are his toilets, although some of them are line work, in plan and elevation so a lovely line appears down the centre of all toilets in plan view, SO if you want to turn off the RWPs you lose the toilets, meaning I need to turn off the RWPs individually in the plan.
Wanna get rid of that mahoosive reference plane in the centre of the plan, don't worry there are another 20 or so others in exactly the same place.
The walls don't have to meet do they? its ok to have a 200mm plus gap at the corners, its natural vent.

Oh, and the ground floor level i'm using isn't, the building slopes but still only has one level, so something offset to be above the ceiling in the bottom of the plan, is only about 250mm above the floor in the top part.
So i needed to make my own levels up.
I'm so glad we are only doing above ceiling co-ordination on this one, I'd end up doing time for murder if I needed to work on this full time.
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2014, 10:44:39 AM »
lol

I had an arch that only drew walls 1' high. :)  I had another that drew everything with detail lines. I also had another that refused to let us (MEP) coordinate with Struct and instead re-drew all structural in their model. :-/
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hudster

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2014, 10:47:48 AM »
On this one I'm working on the Structures guy did his model in 2015, all the rest of us are using 2014. He's pissed because we won't upgrade the model and he has to do it again
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John Kaul (Se7en)

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2014, 10:57:15 AM »
lol Why won't you guys upgrade? ...just use an IFC of his model.
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hudster

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2014, 12:14:02 PM »
woo hoo, I found a solution.

Our document management system, newforma, allows us to export and import room and space information to excel sheets, and it does custom parameters, so I can export the room info with its custom parameter, copy the offending column, paste it into the Room name Column, and re-import.

Job Done.
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Krushert

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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2014, 12:52:52 PM »
Cool.  Glad you found a work around!
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Re: Idiot Architects and Custom Tags
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2014, 12:59:10 PM »
You could've done the same thing with Dynamo.
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