Author Topic: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted  (Read 4405 times)

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CAB

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Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« on: June 18, 2014, 03:20:31 PM »
Trying to come up with a solution to a design problem.
The deck is new and over a parking area (carport). The 3/4" plywood is sealed with EDPM and 2x4 PT placed over that. (this is not my design but I was asked to solve the picket problem)
The current design has a drip edge of metal over a furring strip (red arrow) which is typical design.
The problem come when the Architect wants to use 2x2 pickets (shown in red) attached to the outside deck member and the beam (shown in yellow).
The already thin (1-1/2") picket is notched (red arrow) to only 3/4" thickness.
This is structural a weak design but he doesn't want to resort to post with pickets attached to a bottom rail.
I see no way around this problem.

I suppose we could use 2x3 pickets thus giving more material to notch.
Any other thoughts?
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LE3

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 04:06:59 PM »
answer from an ex-architect... I lost all my knowledge on this.... :-(

Maybe place the verticals in front? and add some shims behind?

CAB

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 04:26:57 PM »
Thanks Luis.
That's a good one. Using furring strips (1x2 PT) would work in the bottom one but the top is only 1.5"x1.5"x.75" and hard to keep from splitting. Might need another material there.

Thanks for the idea.
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LE3

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 04:35:40 PM »
Is interesting as to why the 2x4 flats were not aligned to the face of the plywood, instead of starting by leaving a gap.

I mean something like this:
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 04:44:45 PM by LE »

CAB

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 04:59:36 PM »
To allow for the Metal drip edge.
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danallen

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 05:19:39 PM »
I'm an architect and would be very careful with that railing detail due to life safety. Decks are often not maintained and the wood can rot & weaken. Here is a JLC article on decks, doesn't specifically answer your question but includes guidelines.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz-dFCmwk0cGanl4dlhKdmRrREE/edit?usp=sharing

CAB

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 09:22:11 PM »
Good article. I tend to be more cautious as i get older. 8)

I recommended The furred out method or 2x3 pickets to maintain the 1-1/2" working thickness.
Also using (3) Simpson SDWS22500DB fasteners.
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Daniel J. Ellis

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 03:15:21 AM »
Could you notch the decking and have a gap in the drip strip for each picket?

That would allow the pickets to fix directly to the beam.

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Keith™

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2014, 07:19:38 AM »
I'm an architect and would be very careful with that railing detail due to life safety. Decks are often not maintained and the wood can rot & weaken. Here is a JLC article on decks, doesn't specifically answer your question but includes guidelines.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz-dFCmwk0cGanl4dlhKdmRrREE/edit?usp=sharing

Yeah, its a bad design looking for a resolution, and unfortunately CAB is the one that needs to find it!

I have never liked the idea of wood elements for railing in an exposed setting. Considering the inherent weakness of 2x2 pickets fastened in that manner after a few years of weathering, I don't believe it would be safe after the wood starts to dry out and check.
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TimSpangler

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 07:30:07 AM »
CAB,

How are the newel's attached?  In this situation we would attach the balusters the a horizontal member attached to the newels, not the rimboard of the deck.
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CAB

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 08:06:09 AM »
Could you notch the decking and have a gap in the drip strip for each picket?

That would allow the pickets to fix directly to the beam.

dJE
I would love to do that but trying to seal all those would be a messy looking nightmare.
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CAB

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 08:10:47 AM »
CAB,

How are the newel's attached?  In this situation we would attach the balusters the a horizontal member attached to the newels, not the rimboard of the deck.
You want newel's too! No that would spoil to look.  He he he....
The Architect  wants balusters only. That is the structural dilemma.
To complicate it he wants the deck water tight with a drip edge.

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GDF

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 12:15:07 PM »
I vote for 2x3 pickets
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Keith™

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 01:52:34 PM »
I vote for 2x3 pickets

I vote for a new architect!
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Strucmad

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2014, 07:26:34 PM »
Interesting design, so no post and rail, pickets only.
Assuming this is fairly high off the ground I would be interested in what
the EOR has to say about that connection.
Over here most post and rail balustrades fail to comply with the code required loads.

Agree with Keith... vote for new architect

*edit
Strike those concerns, bending stress appears fine.. very suprised
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 07:59:49 PM by PS_Port »

danallen

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 08:07:43 PM »
ignoring the silly idea of PT 2x4 flat on roofing with no room for drainage (how are those attached without causing a leak?), for the railing, how about attaching the rail to a PT 3x or 4x ledger, that is bolted to the dbl 2x structure but with spacers to allow the drainage between dbl 2x and new ledger?

just an architect who has yet to be fired by our structural engineers...


CAB

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 11:32:04 PM »
Using self stick EDPM with held healing qualities you screw through it. I suggested 1x2 PT furring parallel to the pitch to provide a path for the water or at least PT lattice strips. No response on that suggestion.

That's a good one, same technique used to attach the ledger to the house.
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hugha

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Re: Deck Rail Pickets Ideas Wanted
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2014, 11:49:48 PM »
Agree with the rot problem inherent in wood.  We've seen deck failure in the news to often.

I'd haven't done calcs but I's start with 2" square steel hollow section risers or similar sidewelded to 4"x4"x1/2" mounting/spacer plates with 3/8" bolts clear through the twin edge beams to matching 1/4" backing plates. All hot-dip galvanised.

Might cost a few bob more but I wouldn't go with wood.