Author Topic: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking  (Read 18803 times)

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mjfarrell

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 12:16:29 PM »
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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2014, 01:50:44 AM »
Obvious disclosure: I work for Autodesk. I have a vested interest in seeing this product in your toolbox.

Sticker price is right around $2K in the US, $2500 if you put it on the network. Your typical engineer bills out at $125/hour. If you spend 20 hours a YEAR working on swept-path, parking lots, or reoundabouts, the math is pretty simple. To me, just the parking lot layouts ALONE would have made my money back (stupid offset, array, reoffset, erase, offset, array, reerase, reoffset, erase it all, start over process...) Software is cheap compared to time.

Not to mention, there is a promotion right now for Map 3D and Civil 3D customers. New licenses of Vehicle Tracking 2014 are available at 50% off SRP for Autodesk Subscription customers who already hold a license of AutoCAD 2014, AutoCAD Map 3D 2014, AutoCAD Civil 3D 2014, or Infrastructure Design Suite 2014. This offer ends on April 23, 2014. That's from this page: http://www.autodesk.com/products/vehicle-tracking/overview.


You are right about software is cheap compared to time. And I would not discuss the quality of AVT, I have worked with it and the Vehicle Tracking is not worse or better than other software. The Parking Lit Designer is good and if you do such work a lot, it is a real timesaver. If you don't do this much, a few dynamic blocks will help too.

But your calculation is wrong. You assume the engineer has a 100% profit if you translate $ 2500 into 20 hours.

If he has only $ 5 profit ph, then he need to work 500 hours with the software before he can start making profit again. If he also needs a day of training, then he needs to work almost 700 hourse before he can start making profit. It might be less if the software is such a timesaver that he can send bills for the time it usually cost but he actually worked less with the new software. But in the real world you must be cheaper than a competitor, and you can't keep sending bills for the time it cost in the past, so then there is no extra profit.

And that is why I think the software is quite expensive.

Well said.

We already use AutoTrack so will probably migrate to AVT.

Keith™

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2014, 10:12:57 AM »
Obvious disclosure: I work for Autodesk. I have a vested interest in seeing this product in your toolbox.

Sticker price is right around $2K in the US, $2500 if you put it on the network. Your typical engineer bills out at $125/hour. If you spend 20 hours a YEAR working on swept-path, parking lots, or reoundabouts, the math is pretty simple. To me, just the parking lot layouts ALONE would have made my money back (stupid offset, array, reoffset, erase, offset, array, reerase, reoffset, erase it all, start over process...) Software is cheap compared to time.

Not to mention, there is a promotion right now for Map 3D and Civil 3D customers. New licenses of Vehicle Tracking 2014 are available at 50% off SRP for Autodesk Subscription customers who already hold a license of AutoCAD 2014, AutoCAD Map 3D 2014, AutoCAD Civil 3D 2014, or Infrastructure Design Suite 2014. This offer ends on April 23, 2014. That's from this page: http://www.autodesk.com/products/vehicle-tracking/overview.


You are right about software is cheap compared to time. And I would not discuss the quality of AVT, I have worked with it and the Vehicle Tracking is not worse or better than other software. The Parking Lit Designer is good and if you do such work a lot, it is a real timesaver. If you don't do this much, a few dynamic blocks will help too.

But your calculation is wrong. You assume the engineer has a 100% profit if you translate $ 2500 into 20 hours.

If he has only $ 5 profit ph, then he need to work 500 hours with the software before he can start making profit again. If he also needs a day of training, then he needs to work almost 700 hourse before he can start making profit. It might be less if the software is such a timesaver that he can send bills for the time it usually cost but he actually worked less with the new software. But in the real world you must be cheaper than a competitor, and you can't keep sending bills for the time it cost in the past, so then there is no extra profit.

And that is why I think the software is quite expensive.

Using that analogy would make AutoCAD too expensive to use as well.

The flaw in your logic is that if the engineer is not an employee, then the costs paid to the engineer are 100% loss to the company. The profit margin of the engineering firm is irrelevant.
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lakl

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2014, 09:35:33 AM »
If you don't want to spend tons of money you can use the built in vehicle turning in CadTools.
http://www.glamsen.se/CadTools.htm

It's simple and useful as a complement to "real turning software"

Eclipse

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2014, 04:31:21 AM »
Obvious disclosure: I work for Autodesk. I have a vested interest in seeing this product in your toolbox.

Sticker price is right around $2K in the US, $2500 if you put it on the network. Your typical engineer bills out at $125/hour. If you spend 20 hours a YEAR working on swept-path, parking lots, or reoundabouts, the math is pretty simple. To me, just the parking lot layouts ALONE would have made my money back (stupid offset, array, reoffset, erase, offset, array, reerase, reoffset, erase it all, start over process...) Software is cheap compared to time.

Not to mention, there is a promotion right now for Map 3D and Civil 3D customers. New licenses of Vehicle Tracking 2014 are available at 50% off SRP for Autodesk Subscription customers who already hold a license of AutoCAD 2014, AutoCAD Map 3D 2014, AutoCAD Civil 3D 2014, or Infrastructure Design Suite 2014. This offer ends on April 23, 2014. That's from this page: http://www.autodesk.com/products/vehicle-tracking/overview.


You are right about software is cheap compared to time. And I would not discuss the quality of AVT, I have worked with it and the Vehicle Tracking is not worse or better than other software. The Parking Lit Designer is good and if you do such work a lot, it is a real timesaver. If you don't do this much, a few dynamic blocks will help too.

But your calculation is wrong. You assume the engineer has a 100% profit if you translate $ 2500 into 20 hours.

If he has only $ 5 profit ph, then he need to work 500 hours with the software before he can start making profit again. If he also needs a day of training, then he needs to work almost 700 hourse before he can start making profit. It might be less if the software is such a timesaver that he can send bills for the time it usually cost but he actually worked less with the new software. But in the real world you must be cheaper than a competitor, and you can't keep sending bills for the time it cost in the past, so then there is no extra profit.

And that is why I think the software is quite expensive.

No, it was not flawed.

The only point of contention is the profit margin and that it would (should) be signifignatly more than $5 per hour.

Using that analogy would make AutoCAD too expensive to use as well.

The flaw in your logic is that if the engineer is not an employee, then the costs paid to the engineer are 100% loss to the company. The profit margin of the engineering firm is irrelevant.

Keith™

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2014, 05:35:44 AM »
The profit margin of an outside firm is irrelevant, and the profit margin of your company is irrelevant, unless you are billing your client by the hour and don't bill for the value added of the work produced.

Lets look at a scenario where it makes sense.
Your company hires an outside engineer at $125 per hour. They do this at least 20 hours a year. If spending $2500 for the software reduces this expense to $0 your company loses because it still has to pay employees to do the work that an outside engineer would have done and it has to pay for the software. But, lets say the company has to do this 40 hours a year, and that they pay their employees $25 per hour. the $2500 expense saves the company money, even if it takes the employee twice as long to do the work, which it shouldn't: 40*$125=$5000 : 80*$25+$2500=$4500

What you need to do is look at your company and make the determination whether it is feasible. More often than not, it is.
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BlackBox

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2014, 01:25:06 PM »
FWIW -

I requested a quote from the reseller we purchased our IDS 2014 licenses from, and it came out to be +/- $1000 per user, or $1200 per server license, which represents the limited time pricing.
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JNieman

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2014, 10:02:31 PM »
But your calculation is wrong. You assume the engineer has a 100% profit if you translate $ 2500 into 20 hours.

If he has only $ 5 profit ph, then he need to work 500 hours with the software before he can start making profit again. If he also needs a day of training, then he needs to work almost 700 hourse before he can start making profit. It might be less if the software is such a timesaver that he can send bills for the time it usually cost but he actually worked less with the new software. But in the real world you must be cheaper than a competitor, and you can't keep sending bills for the time it cost in the past, so then there is no extra profit.

And that is why I think the software is quite expensive.
The way you talk, it sounds like you can't afford not to buy the software which will speed you up and allow you to spend fewer hours per job.  Otherwise, you'll never get work if you have to budget more hours than your competitors, who have bought better tools.

huiz

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2014, 03:16:46 AM »
..
The way you talk, it sounds like you can't afford not to buy the software which will speed you up and allow you to spend fewer hours per job.  Otherwise, you'll never get work if you have to budget more hours than your competitors, who have bought better tools.

It is not about the can't afford it part, but that companies sometimes can't spread the expenses for software over the bills because they have to compete with other companies. So spending a lot of money for a software piece need to be calculated in the hour price or it takes away the profit.

And 2500 euros for one license is really a lot of money. Sure, you get a great product for this money but still it is a lot of money. You really need to use it a lot else it is a wasted investment.

Anyway, it's everybody's personal opinion if prices seem high or low. Some will say it's cheap, others will say it's expensive.
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Keith™

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2014, 08:38:05 PM »
It is not about the can't afford it part, but that companies sometimes can't spread the expenses for software over the bills because they have to compete with other companies. So spending a lot of money for a software piece need to be calculated in the hour price or it takes away the profit.

Not really, unless you are assuming that the software provides no benefit to your company. That would be the same as saying your company builds houses using only hammers while your competitor is using pneumatic nailers ... and you can't afford to buy nailers because you can't charge enough to cover the expense of the equipment or that your company is using a drafting board and mylar and can't afford to buy a computer and AutoCAD because you can't pass that expense to your customer.

Now those scenarios might be 100% accurate if your company only builds one house a year or only designs one building a year, but even then, I suspect that the overhead in labor costs to your company would more than cover the £2,500 expense in the first year.

You need to ask yourself a series of questions:
1) How much will I use the software?
2) Will I eliminate or reduce the need for outside engineers?
3) How much labor will using the new software save or add to my bottom line each time I use it?

By asking those questions, you can make a real case on why you can't afford to not have it.

... and just an FYI, companies don't usually drop their price because they purchased a shiny new tool that makes them more productive, instead, they price their products and services to compete at a better margin than their competitors and increase their bottom line profit.
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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 02:25:32 PM »
Fully realizing I'm stirring up an old pot, but I don't think starting a new thread is Kosher, so...

An update to the Autodesk Vehicle Tracking 2015 software will be available to customers on June 14, 2014. The software update adds support for the Bentley MicroStation v8i SELECTseries 3 format.

http://www.autodesk.com/products/vehicle-tracking/overview

If you've ever had to count parking lots, I would seriously look at AVT. I almost made an engineer cry last week when I showed her the parking lot tools. I did in ten minutes what she'd spent the weekend before doing.

mjfarrell

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2014, 02:47:18 PM »
she was doing it wrong - there are easy ways
without purchase of additional software
without elaborating:  think parcels
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Michael Farrell
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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2014, 04:40:46 PM »
I didn't say she wasn't, or that there were better methods than hers. Just an observation.

And parcels are fine for layout, but multiple standards? Multiple angles? Converting Standard to ADA spaces? Drive analysis? Reporting? Adding a new drive lane and resizing? AVT all day long...

Anyway, didn't mean to bring up an AVT discussion, just pointing out the new MS functionality.

mjfarrell

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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2014, 05:50:38 PM »
I didn't say she wasn't, or that there were better methods than hers. Just an observation.

And parcels are fine for layout, but multiple standards? Multiple angles? Converting Standard to ADA spaces? Drive analysis? Reporting? Adding a new drive lane and resizing? AVT all day long...

Anyway, didn't mean to bring up an AVT discussion, just pointing out the new MS functionality.

Not exactly a 'discussion' more like an Infomercial
But hey that is your function- sure would be nice if fixing the core functionality of Civil 3d would become a priority for Autodesk to pursue.
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Michael Farrell
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Re: Autodesk Vehicle Tracking
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2014, 09:33:12 PM »
I didn't say she wasn't, or that there were better methods than hers. Just an observation.

And parcels are fine for layout, but multiple standards? Multiple angles? Converting Standard to ADA spaces? Drive analysis? Reporting? Adding a new drive lane and resizing? AVT all day long...

Anyway, didn't mean to bring up an AVT discussion, just pointing out the new MS functionality.

Not exactly a 'discussion' more like an Infomercial
But hey that is your function- sure would be nice if fixing the core functionality of Civil 3d would become a priority for Autodesk to pursue.

+1000

Autodesk will get our money for AVT because we were already using AutoTrack. However, they have lost our money from Civil 3D as after the company I am working for has been using it over 5 years (I personally haven't been though) we have migrated to a rival civil design software package.  Civil 3D promises a lot more than it delivers.