Topic: BIM and the libraries

[jonesy]

The company I work for are conducting some research regarding the use of BIM object libraries, could any of you please provide response to the following questions?

1.       Where do you source your BIM objects?
2.       What materials and products do these sources of BIM models focus on?
3.       What attribute information do you find useful when selecting products?
4.       Do you find that missing attribute information hinders your work?
5.       Would you find measures such as recycled content useful when selecting products?
6.       How closely linked are the use of products in models, to the item purchased and installed in the finished building?
7.       What are your general views regarding the future of BIM?
 
The answers to these questions will help the bosses here decide whether using BIM more will be more beneficial. 
 
Many thanks for your time.

[RobDraw]

Yes.

[jonesy]

Yes.

?

[RobDraw]

Yes.

?

To No. 7

[mjfarrell]

Personally; I'm nore than a little skeptical when it comes to BIM.
In the end, more materials will have some recycled content in them.
Does knowing this help maintain the building or lower construction or operating cost?
Probably not. 
Building a building well to begin with requiress higher cost in both materials and workmanship.
There simply is no way to build a quality long lasting structure cheaply.
Consider something like Stonehenge; I seriously doubt that thing was cheaply made.

[jonesy]

Thanks Michael.

Can we (all) discuss the first question in my list please.  I understand the librarys/families arent a comprehensive set of libraries.  Where do you go/how do you get the libraries for missing equipment?  Do you go direct to the manufacturer of the equipment, or do you use AutoDesk Seek, or some other way of getting reliable data?

[RobDraw]

As far as building your library, I can speak from a little experience from trying to find families for Revit. I try the manufacturer 1st and get varying quality. More of them are getting on board and have at least something available. Seek has been relatively useless.

[jonesy]

Thanks Rob.  Do the manufacturers families have much data embedded into them, or is that what you mean by varying quality.
Are there other places you search other than the manufacturers own websites?

[RobDraw]

The data varies widely from none to way too much. Sometimes the "Families" are just their CAD stuff, converted. I don't even attempt to use those in Revit.

I check a couple Revit forums and try Google.

[jonesy]

The data varies widely from none to way too much. Sometimes the "Families" are just their CAD stuff, converted. I don't even attempt to use those in Revit.

So this sort of links into question 4 on my list. "Do you find that missing attribute information hinders your work?"
Would having a half-assed family cause you more work in the long-term?  This is focussing on the whole life-cycle of the building, not just design

I check a couple Revit forums and try Google.

Thanks for that Rob.

[RobDraw]

At this point, it does not affect our work because we aren't using that data, yet. I think that while populating your library that this should be looked at carefully and the necessary attribute data be incorporated into the blocks or families.

[M@yhem]

1.       Where do you source your BIM objects?

I/We build our own models on an as-needed basis.  Ocassionally we'll use a manufacturer's family (if they have one).

2.       What materials and products do these sources of BIM models focus on?

We are mainly an MEP firm so our focus is on a lot of the larger equipment that Revit either doesn't have or is too generic in nature.

3.       What attribute information do you find useful when selecting products?

For us, products (I.E. equipment) are selected based on the couple of manufacturers that we spec.

4.       Do you find that missing attribute information hinders your work?

Such as??

5.       Would you find measures such as recycled content useful when selecting products?

If it's a piece of equipment that we start using more often, we'll add it to our master library of families so we don't have to copy and paste from older jobs.

6.       How closely linked are the use of products in models, to the item purchased and installed in the finished building?

Not very.  We create construction documents, not as-built models.

7.       What are your general views regarding the future of BIM?

It will be around for a long time (or until something different comes along).   

[StykFacE]

Matt W hit the nail on the head. I agree with all his responses.

[jonesy]

Thanks for the responses..

Matt, with regards to recycling, I meant it to read that some of the equipment was being manufactured "green" or from recycled plastic/metal/paper etc, rather than the family re-used from one project to another.

Regarding missing data (question 4)  I guess this could mean the amount of recycleable material in each product, so if I were modelling a building that the client wanted to be deemed "green" it would be easy to find that kind of information out.

As I tend to mainly use the column and beam libraries supplied on the very odd times I use Revit, this is all new information to me.

Again, thanks for everyones time.

[jonesy]

One further question that has just been asked (and feel free to continue offering opinions on the other questions I asked)

What happens to your libraries when you upgrade to the newer version? Do you copy and upgrade your whole library to the new version, or do you upgrade the families on an as/when needed basis?

[M@yhem]

One further question that has just been asked (and feel free to continue offering opinions on the other questions I asked)

What happens to your libraries when you upgrade to the newer version? Do you copy and upgrade your whole library to the new version, or do you upgrade the families on an as/when needed basis?

We work with multiple clients/architects running multiple versions of Revit.  And since Revit is not backwards compatible, we keep all of our families in the lowest version that we have installed.  For example, we still have a few jobs (maybe less than 10) that are still in 2010; everything else is 2011 or 2012 so we currently have 3 versions of Revit installed on all computer.  I suspect that as soon as architects start using 2013, all of our 2010 jobs will be upgraded to a higher version, Revit 2010 will be uninstalled, then (slowly) families will be upgaded to the next lowest version of Revit - most likely 2011.

[42]

Jane

1.       Where do you source your BIM objects?
2.       What materials and products do these sources of BIM models focus on?
3.       What attribute information do you find useful when selecting products?
4.       Do you find that missing attribute information hinders your work?
5.       Would you find measures such as recycled content useful when selecting products?
6.       How closely linked are the use of products in models, to the item purchased and installed in the finished building?
7.       What are your general views regarding the future of BIM?

.     
We are Architects and have been using Revit for 18 months. A good source of information regarding BIM can be found at the NBS (thenbs.com). There are many articles that will help to point you in the right direction.
Don't forget that BIM does not mean Revit! it is the complete process from inception to demolition.
The National BIM Library has just been launched "The National BIM Library contains over 200 pre-configured generic objects covering all major building fabric systems such as walls, ceilings, roofs and floors. And this list is set to expand even further, with new content added every few weeks, to make the National BIM Library the primary source of free-to-use platform neutral UK BIM Objects."
Also, it will soon be home to a wide range of NBS standard proprietary objects. A number of manufacturers are currently working with us to convert their products to BIM objects.
Additional, within a few years, 2 or 3, I can't remember. if you want any Government work such as Schools, over £5m then you will have to be working within a BIM process.

1.We tend to build many of our 'objects' from scratch if there is not a ready source within the Autodesk library. Event then we will take that family, de it a door, window, handrail and re badge it.
2+3. If we are able to source from a manufacture, it will go through a QA check to ensure that there is no rubbish embedded within it.
4. We will add all the attributes that we require when building the family.
5. If the intent with any building is to obtain a high BREEAM rating, then the selection of A or A+ products will be importaint. A useful resource is www.bre.co.uk/greenguide for ratings, for recycled content look at rcproducts.wrap.org.uk also look at greenspec http://www.greenspec.co.uk/
6. Depends upon the type of contract. Often, our specification is performance based, so there will be no specific manufacturers mentioned.
7. BIM is here to stay. Just to keep you on your toes, The NBS are introducing a new specification tool called Create. This will help to more closely integrate the specification process and the BIM model. Also look at "AEC (UK) BIM Standard for Revit" at http://aecuk.wordpress.com
Hope this helps
Alastair

[jonesy]

Thanks for all that information 42. I will check it all out very soon!  I may well be back with more questions