Topic: Lynn Allen talking about AutoLISP...

[BlackBox]

so..how do we not have nils?

Add (princ) as the last line of your code. I guess everyone thought you were joking.

I was; right along with the 'Spelled with a D' crowd.  However the question about nils remained sincere.
I mean how many of you pranksters ever actually see me post any LISP code, ever?  Show of hands...

Thanks for the answer!
Why would that have been so tough for her to include?
I't would seem to take the same amount of words to explain than to not.

Going along with your stated sincerity...

As Alan showed it only takes a moment to explain "include (princ)..." to no longer display (or in LISP-ese Return) nil at the command line.

However, a better understanding of LISP functions is necessary for someone to understand the purpose of a function returning anything at all (i.e., functions that return a selection set, or point list, or Object etc.).

[mjfarrell]

As in perhaps evaluating the drawings block table record and only giving one a set of blocks that were inserted at any scale other than (n). So that they could have that value set as desired to effect that particular change.
(Not that I know how to do any of the above)

[MP]

Lynn knows her target audience (the complete lisp / programmer n00b) very well. I believe the "omission" of a closing (princ) was no oversight, she's starting slow, providing the very minimum basic, essential information (hello, wrapping "erase last") in order not to overwhelm the student. She'll add layers of detail and complexity as she goes but start with the simplest base possible, and keep 'em coming back for more. I think she's right on the money for said audience.

[mjfarrell]

sadly, her leaving that bit out, makes me already question the value of watching any more of her omissions

given that she presents the question and points out that the NIL is undesirable; it would be incumbent to answer/solve that issue right there

Introducing someone to a thing that can have error messages, and then teaching them to code somewhat clumsily (with errors remaining), isn't doing the n00b any favors.  Remember this is only from my perspective as both a n00b and a teacher.

[MP]

sadly, her leaving that bit out, makes me already question the value of watching any more of her omissions

given that she presents the question and points out that the NIL is undesirable; it would be incumbent to answer/solve that issue right there

Introducing someone to a thing that can have error messages, and then teaching them to code somewhat clumsily (with errors remaining), isn't doing the n00b any favors.  Remember this is only from my perspective as both a n00b and a teacher.

Meh. If you had genuine interest in learning LISP you would have availed yourself of the lessons provided by the many experts who regularly share their expertise at the swamp long ago -- your feigned interest is very entertaining . She's laying the information out in small bites at a speed and complexity level appropriate for users who probably never considered programming before because "it's so daunting". Additionally, she's also gauging whether their is sufficient interest to continuing with more "lessons" -- said initial lesson looks like a feeler to me. But thanks for your posts, the lessons about grace and generosity toward a fellow teacher are top notch.

[Kerry]

sadly, < .. >.

Meh.< .. >

[Kerry]

Who is Lynn Allen? Is she a member here?  < ..>

Couldn't help myself 

[Lee Mac]

I completely agree with the sentiment regarding gauging the programming level of the audience - I struggled with a similar issue when trying to write a few tutorials for my site, which many times resulted in tutorials which were either miles too long or tried to include too much to cover all the bases. There is a very fine balance between holding the interest of the audience whilst at the same time including all the information you want to cover without completely confusing the hell of them.

For me, the video tutorial seemed a little slow - even for a complete beginner, but that might just be because I prefer to read information than watch it.

Lee

[highflyingbird]

This topic includes some culture I don't know?It's  a little difficult for me.
I have read Lynn Allen's book <Autocad Professional Tips and Techniques>

[mjfarrell]

I'll tell you what it really looked like.  It looked like she forgot to add that required PRINC to her little bit of code. And then when the command line returned NIL she remembered that she forgot.  It has happened to myself when preparing a video tutorial.  I typically then simply record the thing over and include the bit I left out.
I'm all about giving her the benefit of the doubt on it.  Given that that particular piece of code is so fundamental and her lesson was supposed to be basic, I can't see any value in leaving it out, while at the same time saying it's a bad thing.
I think the reason I've not learned any lisp todate could be directly tied to similar 'lessons' I've been exposed to over the years that leave stuff out.  Sadly inclomplete lesssons just don't seem to work for me.  And this goes all the way back to a class I had in 1989 at an autodesk vendor in Portland, OR.  When a lesson produces more errors than insight, I don't see that being an effective one.

[MP]

[alanjt]

 

[alanjt]

Just thought I'd mention that she released a 'part 2' to her Enter the World of AutoLISP.

[MP]

in b4 the hate

[curmudgeon]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who speak binary, and those who don't.

Lee, let me take this chance to tell you I appreciate your tutorials at your site, AND concur with your assessment of the difficulties inherent in "teaching" lisp.

I must be lazy, but to (princ) or (NOT (princ)), was never an issue here.
Confusticate and bebother the nils, next command wipes out that line anyway.
[ invalid syntax above - DO NOT COPY & PASTE ]
 :pissed: