Topic: A C3D.. render issues

[acurr3]

Hi.. im not sure whats going on, I've created this 6 lane roundabout, but when I render there are sections missing..  also.. It seems like some of my splitter islands are either wierd materials.. or non existant....  PLEASE help....I've included a picture of whats going on.

[mjfarrell]

First, I may need to see your data to fully diagnose the issue.

It appears that you had regions off when the surfaces where created, and or gaps in regions.

I look forward to seeing your data.

[mjfarrell]

It also appears that some of your sub assemblies are missing their targets and going to elevation ZERO on you at the ends of some of your regions. You need a longer profile, or feature line so the target can be 'found'.

[acurr3]

OHH... THANKS A BUCH...( I have included the file below)...As of now I've gotten the sections to show up in the rendering, but I still can not get the splitter islands to show... also, I see your point.. there are a few lines that appear to go back to zero elevation; I had this problem (big-time) with the splitter islands but I got rid of them by splitting the bad regions apart, deleting them, and then stretch the good regions.  I'm sure there is an easier way, but... As you can see, I'm new to autocad c3d but I kind of like it..  Anyway, here are the big issues right now... Splitter islands on the side roads not showing, grass and tree's need to encompas the open center portion and finally I'm not sure how to put the pavement markings down, such as yield lines, cross walk lines etc. 

Thanks a lot for anything you can help me with.
Sincerely,
Desperate student who has a geometric highway design project due next week...
(Please forgive any literary errors... I was typing pretty fast.. ...want to be at school by 11:30....... Its 10 now...lol

[mjfarrell]

I am downloading the file...

will endeavor to 'solve' the issue(s) the need solving...

The pavement markings will need to be applied later....

As to 'grass and trees' in center you will want to add links to that portion, OR build the center surface from feature lines, and assign proper render material to it.  For the trees the Move block to surface command will elevate your tree blocks to the correct elevation(s)


English grammar, nor spelling will be graded in this session.   

[acurr3]

oh yeah.. put the splitter island target surface as the roundabout surface that I created, but some of them still seem to be below the roundabout surface... If this is the case, then I'm pretty sure that this is causing the problem, I just dont know how to fix it..

[mjfarrell]

you have corridor regions and surfaces that overlap each other...this is not good...it IS targeting the corridor surface as you say...however that surface isn't valid....so you may want to INCLUDE the corridor surface in your various 'splitter' alignment profiles...and STILL create your own PGL for it to target...then you are in complete control.
In this way the corridor surface profile is merely a reference...

As an alternate you could create those splitter islands as Feature lines that get their elevations from the corridor top surface...and they would stay linked to the surface.  As currently your splitter surfaces are sitting on top of paved areas.

Or you would want to use different assemblies with offsets in them such that the islands were being created by the assemblies.

And for sure you want to eliminate the areas where your corridor overlaps.

[mjfarrell]

To be sure that no corridor sections ever go to zero...ALWAYS create your proposed profile as LONG as or LONGER than the alignment the profile is being drawn for.  If the proposed profile is short by even 0.0001 then the corridor goes to ZERO on you.

[acurr3]

well.... let me know how this sounds to you.. I created one surface from google (surface 1), and one just for the corredor that is supposed to sit on top of the google image (the roundabout surface). As of now, the splitter islands are corridors whose alignment profiles are based on the roundabout surface... should I just make the splitter islands have a base alignment whose profiles are based on the google earth surface that I originally used.. or what.. I'm not quite clear on what you mean.... I truly appologize for my inellectual dimness on the matter..

[acurr3]

alirght.. that doesnt work because it now targets the bottom of the corridor....hmm... how can I get out of this pickle...

[mjfarrell]

alirght.. that doesnt work because it now targets the bottom of the corridor....hmm... how can I get out of this pickle...

you would want to target the corridor top surface (profile)
OR
Move the curb sub assemblies UP along the assembly baseline with the MOVE command...

Or
draw your own Proposed profile...even IF it is simply tracing....

[mjfarrell]

well.... let me know how this sounds to you.. I created one surface from google (surface 1), and one just for the corredor that is supposed to sit on top of the google image (the roundabout surface). As of now, the splitter islands are corridors whose alignment profiles are based on the roundabout surface...

Not a problem to use the corridor surface as a STARTING point...then draw your own design profile ...even if it is retracing the corridor surface or even EG...
THEN should things need to be adjusted you can adjust the profile...
a couple of reasons...
easier to control labels, easier to edit

[acurr3]

oh.. okay.. well.. right now I do not have the actual views created for the splitter island alignments... but it seems like you are saying to just create a view of the profile.. add an actual created desgn profiles in the views, set the alignment to the design profile, and from there, I can just adjust the design profiles until the splitter islands actually sit upon the roundabout surface...

[mjfarrell]

OK....after studying your file a little longer...

...I need to suggest (gently) that you not do your design model in this fashion.
Instead I would want you to do the following:

Create a Dummy Corridor with only the pavement regions defined. This corridor will later get a NO Display style applied to every portion of it.  This surface is used to get target profiles, surfaces from without creating a loop in the Corridor Model.
It also helps design the profiles for the Edge of pavement to smoothly from one segment to the next.

Then I want you to shift your targets to the DUMMY corridor surface, and or profiles derived from it.

Then I want you to take each and everyone of those separate 'splitter island' corridors and make them a part of one single ALL KNOWING ALL SEEING corridor. the manner in which C3D connects feature lines from the various assemblies, and subassemblies is getting in the way. Then the feature lines from your curb assembly can be added as break lines to that overall corridor surface model.
To expedite the modeling process you can turn off regions you have already built and accepted the output.

You'll be happier with the results.

[acurr3]

I appreciate you letting me down easily pertaining to me having to do it all over      ...Now, onto the issue at hand.  when you say a dummy corridor, how do I do that.  is this just a corridor at elevation zero while following the same process I used to make the present corridor.. also, how do I set up the splitters as within this all knowing corridor..

[acurr3]

Almost ready to shoot my self.. well..... I guess I've already shot myself with the way ive gone about doing this project so far....LOL

[mjfarrell]

OR

Ignore everything I typed above....

Simply go to your Round About Surface...

Expand the Definition, and PASTE each of your seperate traffic seperator islands into the final surface model....and have a nice day.

the circled are is due to your regions/data overlapping each other in that area...and there are more.

[acurr3]

im sorry, I thought I was being funny, I hope you were not offended by my last reply.. I do truely appreciate everything that you have helped me with..

[mjfarrell]

oh.. okay.. well.. right now I do not have the actual views created for the splitter island alignments... but it seems like you are saying to just create a view of the profile.. add an actual created desgn profiles in the views, set the alignment to the design profile, and from there, I can just adjust the design profiles until the splitter islands actually sit upon the roundabout surface...

they are in the right place..it's just how, and when you've created the data....read the post that begins with IGNORE everything.


However the method outlined in the Use a Dummy corridor method however opens up some other design methods.
As sometimes THE solution, isn't found in a single corridor, however it's output can be leveraged to create the FINAL design corridor much easier.

[mjfarrell]

im sorry, I thought I was being funny, I hope you were not offended by my last reply.. I do truely appreciate everything that you have helped me with..

not offended in the least....

in fact one would have to try quite a bit to accomplish that, and even then I'll still try to help   :kewl:

Shame I don't get in your area more or it would be fun to stop in and help you guys out at the school.

[acurr3]

When I expand the definition am I just looking at the edit and paste, or are there other definitions that need to be expounded upon..

[mjfarrell]

When I expand the definition am I just looking at the edit and paste, or are there other definitions that need to be expounded upon..

Right Click on Edit...You will find the PASTE operation...Paste Each Island Surface into the Roundabout one...

[acurr3]

alright.. thanks for everything.. unfortunatedly, even after i paste to the surface, which is a method I tried to used after seeing a tutorial on A.U. I still do not get some of the splitters in the render..  I do get the splitters to show the upraised proile in the object view, but not in the render view. for now, we're the only group who is going to have any sort o 3d rendering so... hopefully what I have will do... I might just add a few cars, the yield signage and set up a report with the sag and crest vert curves and all the proposals or the intersection design.. along with the google earth abilities of autocad, Im sure we will be better than the other groups.. but If you have any other suggestions they are more than welcomed.

[mjfarrell]

I'm going to finish pasting the rest of your splitter corridor surfaces in; just to see what I get here.
Then, I'm going to tell you to go do the steps BEFORE I said IGNORE everything. With Everything in one corridor.
This should solve some of the feature line connection issues. Right now some of your Top Links can't connect to each other properly, as they are seperated by being in different corridors.

[acurr3]

Alright.   I need to know if I am thinkng about the dummy corridore correctly.   1st) I create assemblies that,only pertain to the pavement. 2nd) create a entire corridor as I did before.  Intersections and all. 3rd) create a surface using this dummy corridor and put the splitters on that.   Also how would I turn off the settings that you mentioned so that the dummy corridor is not in the render....  Also please be patient with me.  Ive done autocad but ive only been at the c3d for d days now.   They have been a long four days....  But none the less.....  I am an extreme novice

[Dinosaur]

~~ive only been at the c3d for d days now.   They have been a long four days....  But none the less.....  I am an extreme novice

WOW!  Only 4 days ... well done.  I had not tackled rendering after 4 years.

[mjfarrell]

Alright.   I need to know if I am thinkng about the dummy corridore correctly.   1st) I create assemblies that,only pertain to the pavement. 2nd) create a entire corridor as I did before.  Intersections and all. 3rd) create a surface using this dummy corridor and put the splitters on that.   Also how would I turn off the settings that you mentioned so that the dummy corridor is not in the render....  Also please be patient with me.  Ive done autocad but ive only been at the c3d for d days now.   They have been a long four days....  But none the less.....  I am an extreme novice

Correct...only the DUMMY corridor is used 'only' for surfaces/profiles for the DESIGN or FINAL corridor model to use.
In the Design Corridor, be sure to model EVERYTHING in one giant corridor.
The one you started is fine, only swap out your targets for those created by the DUMMY.
AND most importantly all of the Diversion Islands.

The dummy Corridor will not show up anywhere...as you are going to assign a NO DISPLAY style to all of it.

[acurr3]

Thanks sparky...  To see that keeps me encouraged when I want to throw my laptop an the next homeless guy making more money than me in one day of begging, than do during a whole week at my student job....  (no offense to the homeless people who really do want to work and cant find jobs)

[acurr3]

Also.  Thanks alot michael.  All though I am on break from my 2 1/2 hr fracture mechanics class and im not near my cad I do see what you mean now pertaining to tageting everthing to the dummy corridor.   Hopefully ill have enough energy to try it when I get home tonight

[Dinosaur]

Thanks sparky...  To see that keeps me encouraged when I want to throw my laptop an the next homeless guy making more money than me in one day of begging, than do during a whole week at my student job....  (no offense to the homeless people who really do want to work and cant find jobs)

You are very welcome, but best hold off chucking the laptop for a while yet ... there will be plenty of temptations to do that as you continue trying to tame this beast.  Just wait until you try to start trying to modify sewer design profiles that are already annotated to design document criteria.

[mjfarrell]

Well, I pasted them all in and they seem to have kept their material properties...so it should NOT be required that you rebuild your corridor entirely.

However you still have some portions that go to zero, regions that overlap other region data, and perhaps some bad profile data (arising from using the GE surface I surmise)

[mjfarrell]

close inspection of the file reveals...one just might be better off creating the corridor as a single ALL encompasing one
and or if one stays with all the seperate ones...
AFTER the design is 'finalized'
Creating a detached surface from the corridor...removing some of the triangulation, then pasting in the islands would produce a better result for rendering.

[mjfarrell]

Part of the issue with your island not showing up correctly is that the corridor 'only' comprises the curb.
When this surface is pasted in, the inside of the island is confusing the software, so some of the pavement
surface from underneath is being blended with the concrete surface from above.
Again this is due to the manner that the links, and feature lines are connected within the corridor model.
IF your model was a single contiguous model most of these issues would resolve themselves.

[acurr3]

Here is, the corridor done a lot smoother withought all the overlap and the dummy corridor. also I see what youre saying pertaining to the islands, but I, do you mind letting me know exactly how to do that.

[mjfarrell]

two options...
the first might solve the issue
add a link off of the special curb only assembly, assign unique link code,and be sure to assign proper material properties to the  link code in the code set the surface should fill in the islands

Otherwise you are going to want to build those islands within a SINGLE unified corridor model so that the link codes and feature lines they generate connect more correctly.
Take a look inside the corridor properties and look at the feature lines tab to see why...this is partly due to your having the pavement continue under the islands...and partly because of how C3D connects the feature line links.

If I understood your question(s)?

[mjfarrell]

actually take a close look at Damen North Spl profile and alignment, (actually most of them)...there is something way bad there that is at the root of the problem...unless the using the DUMMY as target has fixed that issue

[acurr3]

now, Ive created another surface that actually shows the center islands in the object view, but when I select the surface and then use the render command, nothing at all comes up.

[acurr3]

her is the current file

[mjfarrell]

take a Quick profile through the areas where the surface appears to not display when rendered...
you will see that you have surfaces overlapping surfaces...and this is confusing the render engine
setting all other surfaces to a NO DISPLAY style I get the attached...

[mjfarrell]

I would rather that you actually have made a DUMMY corridor, that wasn't a part of your 'New Roundabout' corridor.
This allows one to reference information being created by the DUMMY within the design corridor, without creating self referencing loops within the data.  Sometimes this will cause a corridor to show as constantly out of date, or rebuild infinitely.

Are you next going to add a motion path and send a camera around and around the roundabout?

[acurr3]

alright.. got it all to work.. now.. do you know what I can do to get grass in the middle of the island..

[mjfarrell]

extract the inner most feature line from the corridor....use it to create a surface called Island of Grass add that single Feature line as a 'breakline', with desired style and render material.

Or

as instructed earlier hang a link width and slope generic link of the side of the assembly that creates the island, being sure to assign the desired point, and link code to the link to allow it to create/render the proper materials. The nature of how C3D connects the feature lines will fill in the rest of the oval when it makes the surface triangulation.