Topic: How to lock a drawing before leaving ...

[Hangman]

Has anyone created a routine for locking a drawing before leaving for the evening ??
I am curious as to how it could be done as I have finished a Monday morning meeting which one of the users has had a problem (and many others have voiced their opinion) with users opening someone elses file to copy something, and ended up modifying the drawing and then saving it.
Now, mind you, these users are very new to ACAD.  They have been using Microstation for several decades and have within the last year, purchased autocad.  They are just beginning their conversion.  So they are getting frustrated and cussing up a storm.

I am wondering if a LiSP routine could be written to open a dwg, duplicated the DWL file and then close the dwg while leaving the DWL file so it couldn't be opened again until the DWL file is gone.
But I would want to copy the DWL file to somewhere on the server so if someone went and manually deleted the DWL file through windows explorer, the drawing still would NOT be editable.  The LiSP routine would have to be run again to unlock the drawing so the owner/user could edit the dwg.
Of course I (the administator) would need access to the LiSP so if the owner/user was out or dead, I would be able to unlock the drawing.
Well, my idea above won't work.

So, does anyone have any idea's or suggestions ??

Thanks.

[Lee Mac]

Password protect the drawing? just throwing it out there 

[MP]

www.cadlock.com

A routine (doesn't have to be lisp, could be c#, vb[a], python, whatever ... i.e. does not have to be done from within AutoCAD) could simply open the applicable drawings exclusively, but imo that's delicate ground for the casual programmer to stray into.

DO NOT PASSWORD THE DRAWING.

[Lee Mac]

DO NOT PASSWORD THE DRAWING.

Have I said something I shouldn't've    Sorry.

Why is it bad to do?

[Hangman]

Well, perhaps password protecting the drawing isn't a bad thing, IF ...
when the password is created, it is also written to a database on the server where I can access it.  So there is someone else who can access the drawing if need be.
I forgot to mention, this is a 'beginning user' type of problem which will continue to cause hours of lost time, and probably continue over the next 6 to 12 months (or until I can get them A: educated, and B: out of their old routines and habits from Microstation) but will eventually be a thing of the past.  Not to mention I don't have the purchasing capabilities to go after cadlock.  Thanks for the idea though.

[mjfarrell]

perhaps have then STOP using active drawings as a block library?

and explain why it is a bad thing....exiting and saving work one should not save....is a good starting point for that conversation

[Bob Wahr]

Change the attributes of the filoe and/or folder to read only.  Even better, educate your users.  The microstation excuse is BS.  For one, unless ms has changed since I used it regularly a hundred or so years ago, it constantly saves.  That being the case, they should be more aware of the problem, not less.  In either case, if they are really so stupid that they can't remember that they made changes to a file before they tell autocad to save the file, they are definitely too stupid to have a job, way too stupid to be allowed to reproduce, and quite possibly too stupid to live.

[Hangman]

perhaps have then STOP using active drawings as a block library?

and explain why it is a bad thing....exiting and saving work one should not save....is a good starting point for that conversation

I agree.  Unfortunately, I have two users specifically who are here for a paycheck.  They really don't care how the drawing is done, or what it looks like.  They have no pride in their work what-so-ever.  I know, they should be put out on the back porch, but I don't have a say in that either.

[cmwade77]

I would suggest that you create a reactor (someone else can chime in here on how to do that part, as I still haven't been able to get them right without someone pointing me in the right direction first) that automatically locks all layers when you close a drawing. This will not make it impossible to change, but make it a bit more difficult for them. Alternatively, yo would have to password protect the drawing and keep a record of the passwords somewhere else (I would recommend using one password for all drawings if you take this route, then you do not need to write them down, just not give the passwords to the users that cause problems).

[Hangman]

So the basic consensus for this dilemma is to use password protect.
The only thing I don't like about this is that I cannot open the drawing read-only.  I can't open it at all without the password.
Putting that aside, where does the information for the drawing password reside ??
I would like to put together a LiSP routine where it asks the user for a password to protect their drawing, and have that user variable (the password) be written to a document on the server as well as to the drawing (along with the users name, drawing name, etc).
That way, when the user loses his password or he is out of the office and the Boss has to get into the drawing and mess it up (I'm being facetious), I can get the password off the list on the server.
Thank you again for your thoughts and help.

[Kerry]

So the basic consensus for this dilemma is to use password protect.
< .. >

No, not for me. It's education.
If you can't convince them to behave perhaps consider making an archive copy before you leave work.

[nivuahc]

No, not for me. It's education.

Amen to that.

[mjfarrell]

So the basic consensus for this dilemma is to use password protect.
< .. >

No, not for me. It's education.

No, not for me. It's education.

No, not for me. It's education.

[nivuahc]

So the basic consensus for this dilemma is to use password protect.
< .. >

No, not for me. It's education.

No, not for me. It's education.

No, not for me. It's education.

Again, Amen to that!

[Bob Wahr]

So the basic consensus for this dilemma is to use password protect.
< .. >

No, not for me. It's education.

No, not for me. It's education.

No, not for me. It's education.

Again, Amen to that!

I'm not a praying man, but yeah, what he said.

If they are really that bad, you need to talk to management about them.  Often. until they give you the backup or power required to deal with it.

[Hangman]

So the basic consensus for this dilemma is to use password protect.
< .. >

No, not for me. It's education.
If you can't convince them to behave perhaps consider making an archive copy before you leave work.

You should know I agree with what you all have said.  Education is the key.  And the drawings SHOULD be backed up every day.  The problem lies in that these guys were misinformed from the setup and they have been practicing a really bad habit.
To tell you the story, I've been here only a short period of time.  Before I came, the most knowledgeable person for autocad had about a years worth of experience.  Before autocad was installed, they were using microstation and their IT and support people were out of state.  Everything was done over the wire.
So they purchased autocad and had someone come in and show them how to use it.  This person taught them what he knew, but unfortunately, if he is only there for a paycheck, then he passes the ill-given information on to those he works with.  So now there are 15 users who are trying to follow what this one person taught them to do and making a mess.  Not to mention over half really don't like autocad, they are used to microstation.  And when commands don't work like microstations commands, they get even more infuriated at it.
So, past practices are to check out a project.  When they are done, check the project back in.  Unfortunately, they were taught by this guy who set up everything that when they check out a project, save it the C: drive.
So much for the server doing it's nightly backup.
As for the user who is changing the drawings when he should be saving it out as another before working on it or copying something from it, I would think he's already proven himself to the upper management.  They are happy with him, so he can just float along now.  He knows he won't get put out on the back porch.
So I'm trying - without stepping on toes & burning any bridges - to right a wrong they have been practicing for about a year.  It is going to be a long, slow process.
Just to give you an idea of where they are, in my meeting Monday morning, they learned two fantastic commands;  QSELECT and ALIASEDIT.

Thanks guys for your listening ear & your help.

[Lee Mac]

Sounds like that company won't last too long... 

[Hangman]

Sounds like that company won't last too long... 

Actually, they have been around for quite some time, and (from an insiders point of view) they won't be going away any time soon either.  They are very well established and quite necessary.  I won't give any names, but I will say this;  The country would be in a bit of a fix without them.

I know what your asking; How in the world did they get along with only 15 drafters & why don't they have a more skilled CAD tech person ??   Well, like I said, they used microstation for decades, all their standards were set and they had no deviation from it.  But the company has recently split (split is not the correct terminology here, because they are still one company, but because of federal regulations, it was a necessary step) and these guys I'm with now, because of client demand and other developments, has decided to go with Autocad.  I just need to get these guys up to par.

[t-bear]

Have you considered doing a "Lunch-N-Learn?"  Twice a week, they bring a sack lunch and you "instruct" them for a half hour on proper ACAD etiquette. A side effect of this is that the more lunch breaks they lose in class, the faster they are going to implement what you're teaching.  The heard heads get extra toutoring until they come on board.

you would have to get management on board, but showing them the number of lost billable hours the present situation is costing should be an incentive.....

[Hangman]

Have you considered doing a "Lunch-N-Learn?"  Twice a week, they bring a sack lunch and you "instruct" them for a half hour on proper ACAD etiquette. A side effect of this is that the more lunch breaks they lose in class, the faster they are going to implement what you're teaching.  The heard heads get extra toutoring until they come on board.

you would have to get management on board, but showing them the number of lost billable hours the present situation is costing should be an incentive.....

That has been suggested and I do have the approval of management.  (I had to show off a little in my monday morning meeting, but I impressed them enough to get a little pull).
It's just a matter of time now.  I'm hoping I can start the "Lunch N Learn" by next week, but I've gotta be honest, if they are just learning simple commands like QSELECT, It's going to take awhile to get the herd going in the right direction.
I was talking with one of the engineers earlier who mentioned they've had one of those week long contracting type training sessions, but that was it.  And it was a year ago so most of them don't even remember it.

[Bob Wahr]

Not surprising at all.  You have to use it after you are shown it and with no one around to reinforce it, the information will fade away.  I disagree with Lee Mac about the company failing.  I've been through similar though not as bad before and it will work out.  My suggestions are to not try to teach too much in a chunk.  Give them something that they can use instantly that will make them happy, then give them a week to use it before you drop the next thing or two on them.  Try to get the company to bring in pizza or subs or something.  If they have to both spend their lunch hour on it, and supply their own food, interest will fade quickly.  If management doesn't like the idea, try to bargain for them picking it up at least once a month.  Teach them things that you see they need, but don't limit it to that.  Ask for suggestions.  Ask them what microstation commands/functionality they are missing, and show them how to do it in AutoCAD.  It is really easy to let your brain close down due to the dislike of one CAD package or the other.  An analogy I have used that might help them twist their brains around it better is the calculator.  To me, the difference between using AutoCAD and Microstation is the same as the difference between a standard and RPN calculator.  They both take in the same information and yield the same results, you just have to think a little differently to get there.

[Hangman]

Not surprising at all.  You have to use it after you are shown it and with no one around to reinforce it, the information will fade away.  I disagree with Lee Mac about the company failing.  I've been through similar though not as bad before and it will work out.  My suggestions are to not try to teach too much in a chunk.  Give them something that they can use instantly that will make them happy, then give them a week to use it before you drop the next thing or two on them.  Try to get the company to bring in pizza or subs or something.  If they have to both spend their lunch hour on it, and supply their own food, interest will fade quickly.  If management doesn't like the idea, try to bargain for them picking it up at least once a month.  Teach them things that you see they need, but don't limit it to that.  Ask for suggestions.  Ask them what microstation commands/functionality they are missing, and show them how to do it in AutoCAD.  It is really easy to let your brain close down due to the dislike of one CAD package or the other.  An analogy I have used that might help them twist their brains around it better is the calculator.  To me, the difference between using AutoCAD and Microstation is the same as the difference between a standard and RPN calculator.  They both take in the same information and yield the same results, you just have to think a little differently to get there.

Excellent advice, Thank you Bob.

[cmwade77]

After reading more about your situation, I would also say education is the key, but keep in mind the local laws, for example in California, you must give at least a 30 minute lunch for an 8 hour shift, so be careful how you handle the lunch and learn and make sure it complies with your laws, but it is a good idea.

In addition, I would say that based on what you have said here, you need to get management to approve two full day sessions (preferably consecutively) to get them on the correct practices.

Alternatively use Windows SteadyState (Free) and prevent them from saving to their C drive at all (depending on the company, this may require getting IT involved, but it will be worth it in the long run). This will prevent them from being able to check out a project by copying it to their C drive.

You need to have the authority to at least recommend that they be disciplined, perhaps even fired if they don't follow the guidelines set forth. Also, make sure that there are documented CAD Standards in a manual, I recommend using a program to create it as a website, so that it can be modified over time as standards evolve, it should never be printed under any circumstances, it risks becoming outdated very quickly that way.

[Hangman]

I thank you all for your advice, comments, and concerns with this issue.  I really do appreciate it and I will be working toward the end goal as you have suggested, that of being educated.  Who knows, some of these people may end up coming to work with you or for you in some manner.  So again, I thank you.


So, sliding back to my original question, now more out of curiosity rather than a solution, ...
I don't know that creating a routine to lock a drawing has ever been accomplished yet.  Perhaps I have missed something in my search, but I haven't found anything yet.
But I think it would be kind of cool to be able to use the security feature of acad and lock a drawing, but as the user types the password in, it is also posted to a document on the server for CAD support or IT support to access if need be.
Accessing the security feature I think is the trick here.  Because the password can be put to a local variable, it can be easily printed to a document (Word, Excel, Notepad, etc.) on the server for safe keeping.
Anyone want to venture into this ??   I don't know where or how the security feature works in terms of the info.  Is it a registry item ??  If so, does it have to be unlocked from the same machine it was locked from ??  Is it stored locally with the drawing ??  If so, can this be manipulated by LiSP or VLA ??
I know curiosity killed the cat, but A: it had nine lives, and B: satisfaction brought it back. 
Thank you all.

[nivuahc]

Password protected drawings was one of the absolute worst decisions (in my opinion) that Autodesk made. One of, not the worst, but right up there.

Before you go down this route, it might be in your best interest to contact Autodesk and ask them how to recover or remove the password from a password protected drawing. The answer you get may change your mind about persuing this avenue at all.

[MP]

FULLY AGREE

Open that can of worms by using it to strong arm control a situation that should be dealt with by policy and education and forever regret it.

[CTMill]

I agree with everyone else....  Password protection sounds like a good idea.  But is it really the best idea?  Imo, education has always been the best method to cure this kind of problem.  Think of it this way:

Let's say the guy, who is floating along, decides to complain to the boss because you locked him out of a drawing.  Now you're preventing him from being able to work.  You could be perceived as the bad guy in the eyes of the boss and IT.  And that's without even taking into account who has more pull...... 

[Lee Mac]

Password protected drawings was one of the absolute worst decisions (in my opinion) that Autodesk made. One of, not the worst, but right up there.

Before you go down this route, it might be in your best interest to contact Autodesk and ask them how to recover or remove the password from a password protected drawing. The answer you get may change your mind about persuing this avenue at all.

I didn't realise it was considered that bad - is it that you cannot recover a drawing for which you have lost a password?

[Kerry]

Password protected drawings was one of the absolute worst decisions (in my opinion) that Autodesk made. One of, not the worst, but right up there.

Before you go down this route, it might be in your best interest to contact Autodesk and ask them how to recover or remove the password from a password protected drawing. The answer you get may change your mind about persuing this avenue at all.

I didn't realise it was considered that bad - is it that you cannot recover a drawing for which you have lost a password?

Thats's part of it.
.. and consider the possibility of malicious damage by a malcontent.
[side issue] how good is <your> backup system.

[Bob Wahr]

My vote, if you absolutely need to lock it, is still for setting the folder attributes to Read Only.

[Hangman]

'Nuf said.  I won't rock the boat.

[VovKa]

ntfs security permissions?