Topic: What's your Block Library like?

[jbuzbee]

Some of us over at the AutoLISP forum are writing a Block Mananger program: http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=32058.0

We wanted to get some real world feed back on how users organize standard blocks.  I'd appreciate if anyone one could chime in and summarize how Blocks are organized. 

What we're looking for:

Organization: containers.  Do you store multiple blocks in a single drawing or one drawing per Block?
                   folders.  Do you organize blocks in different folders / subfolders?
                   naming.  CSI, numeric, alphabetic?

Any information will be helpful.  It's our goal to create a mananger that can easily adjust to a multitude of organization styles.

Thanks,
jb

[t-bear]

*need more input!*  OK, here's mine:
We create a dwg for each block.
We store them in folders/sub-folders...
For an 8" valve..."blocks/pipe-8/valve-8.dwg"
Main folder is "blocks", sub-folder is "pip-8" or 8" pipe, and dwg is "valve-8.dwg"
For 4" stainless sched. 40 pipe..."blocks/pipe-4/pip-4ss40.dwg"
Main folder is "blocks", sub-folder is "pip-4" or 4" pipe, and dwg is "pip-4ss40.dwg".

We are using a store-bought library program here ("Symbolman" from Dotsoft) but will be watching this project closely.  Sounds like a good little project fellers....!!!

[TimSpangler]

I'll add my $0.02.

I have a dwg for each block (Mostly).  My main folder "Block Library" then I have sub folders based on plan type i.e.

00 - Annotation
01 - Elevations
02 - Foundations
03 - Groundworks
...... etc

In each folder there are blocks specific to those plans.

I would like to see (and will help) to be able to set the main folder and have the program automatically pick up the sub folders.  (it would work nice for my set up)

Are you thinking OpenDCL for this?

[T.Willey]

Are you thinking OpenDCL for this?

I think that is what James is learning toward.

[TimSpangler]

Are you thinking OpenDCL for this?

I think that is what James is learning toward.

james, are you working on a beta of the GUI?

[Shinyhead]

I have a pretty big library of non proprietary blocks if you want something to work with.
Its a mix of cabinet hardware, drafting symbols and appliances.
Some dynamic, some standard.  A couple of hundred blocks in a variety of catagories, might be a good testbed.

[T.Willey]

Are you thinking OpenDCL for this?

I think that is what James is learning toward.

james, are you working on a beta of the GUI?

From James in the Lisp thread

Thanks everyone for the replies and support.  I've cobbled together a palette in OpenDCL and will post it later, unfortunately I have to be out on appointments most of the day.

I have a pretty big library of non proprietary blocks if you want something to work with.
Its a mix of cabinet hardware, drafting symbols and appliances.
Some dynamic, some standard.  A couple of hundred blocks in a variety of catagories, might be a good testbed.

Right now we are just trying to get ideas of how different people set up there blocks.  This way we can code for as many different ways as possible, and have a global type function that all can use, and setup per their standards.  Once we get the meat of the code written, then we may ask for some blocks, as of right now they are not needed.  Thanks for the offer though, and we will keep you in mind when the testing time comes around.

[TimSpangler]

From James in the Lisp thread

How did I miss that??

[dgorsman]

Wherever possible, I use the folder hierarchy system as Client -> In-house -> Generic.  This way, if I need to have client specific block it just gets dropped into the client folder so its found first.  If its not in the client folder, the in-house version is used, and so on.

[CottageCGirl]

since I deal with product numbered items, each prefix has it's own folder then each item has a block, used to have individual drawings for each prototypical grouping, but have moved over to a source drawing with all related grouped blocks , so I can put them on palettes......so I Have a HUGE LIBRARY.

[Krushert]

Mostly a block per drawing in a hodge poge of folders.

It is the naming of the blocks that is killing me.  But these users of mine don't seem to think it is a big deal until I get have fit and start organizing. Some of them well go make a new block and put it back what I just deleted.   :pissed: :realmad:

[GDF]

I use CSI format for small blocks...(generic library of small blocks and a separate entourage directory)

For note libraries, details, sheets, schedules and symbols, I use a varity of folder directories...(based on Arch., Struc., MEP and Civil)

Also use some parametric routines that create blocks...

[Krushert]

I use CSI format for small blocks...(generic library of small blocks and a separate entourage directory)

For note libraries, details, sheets, schedules and symbols, I use a varity of folder directories...(based on Arch., Struc., MEP and Civil)

Also use some parametric routines that create blocks...

^^^ is that Heaven?   Can I come work with you? 

[GDF]

Another thing to consider is that some blocks like symbols require unique layers and scale, so I use multiple dialog based routines to do behind the sceen functions automatically...

For example, here are someof my many dialog based routines...

The Cabinet routine uses 1x1 scale blocks that are scaled by width for blocks in elevation and plan drawings.
I use this approach and parametricly drawn blocks to cut down the size of my overall libraries...

[Matt__W]

Mine/Ours is based off an idea by JB using container blocks and built with OpenDCL.

http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=16730.msg203685#msg203685

[Krushert]

You Guys suck ROCK! 

Mighty nice work there.

[Matt__W]

You Guys suck ROCK! 

Mighty nice work there.

That's what she said!   

[GDF]

Another way to consider, is to have all of your blocks in one drawing and then use a dialog interface to insert the selected block...

;;; PVSYMBOLS.LSP   a program to insert in-line pipe valve
;;; symbols with or without trimming the line.  Program by Tony Hotchkiss.
;;; 8-2-02, Revised local variables in (init) function

Go to  http://www.cadalyst.com/

[GDF]

Then there is a sheet setup routine that uses titleblocks copied to your job folder (to be xrefed into paperspace, sets up view ports, job number and sheet title attributes) etc...

So you can see, there can be many different type of block libraries...

[jbuzbee]

OK, great feed back!  this is exactly what we were looking for.  So the concensus is folder based, one drawing per block.  After we get this one in the can we can introduce something more robust: a single drawing containing multiple blocks (utilizing ObjectDBX functionality) and symbols.  But for now let's focus on something a little simpler.  I'm on my way over to the AutoLISP forum to get the lads going . . ..

[cadtag]

As a suggestion -- having the capability for metadata associated with some/all of the blocks could be helpful down the road.  No matter how much sense a system makes to its creators, years from now the inheritors will invariably go "Huhh?"  Not all that critical for symbology, but details, and especially standard details could benefit from a history that goes with them

Possibly something as simple as a matching XML document, with whatever information is deemed relevant -- creator, creation date, approved by, layering standard, client specific, etc.

[jbuzbee]

cadtag: that's' a very good idea - thanks.

OK, a beta version is up for testing at: http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=32058.0

Drag and drop the BlockManager.fas file into AutoCAD and type "BlockManager" at the command line.  A palette should come up. 

Use the "open" button in the lower left corner to point to a folder.  The tree control will be populated with all subfolders (any level deep). 

Selecting a folder in the tree controll will populate the drawing list control to the right.  Selecting a drawing will display a thumbnail in the preview.  The preview can be zoomed and panned.

With a drawing selected hit the insert button to insert: you'll be prompted at the command line for scale and rotation and insert point (as usual).  Double clicking the drawing list or the preview will also insert the drawing.

[t-bear]

Error message "openDCL.arx module did not load" 

[jbuzbee]

Sorry, this program requires OpenDCL, a free download can be found here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/opendcl/

Download and install.  Installs an ARX file that controls the dialog boxes in this program.

jb

[t-bear]

Did so...it installed in"c:/ Program files...etc"
Placed the folder in ACAD search path and tried again....same result.
Looking for an ARX file.....?
Where am I going wrong?

[Kerry]

You shouldn't need to add the path.


What is the DEMANDLOAD variable in your dwg ... try 3

(what happens when you enter OPENDCL at the command line ?


added:
for info the ARX is at
C:\Program Files\Common Files\OpenDCL\OpenDCL.18.arx
.... but you don't need to load it or in fact shouldn't even need to know where it lives.

[jbuzbee]

"What happens when you type "OpenDCL" in the command line?"

Sorry Kerry, you already asked this.

I've added (command "OpenDCL") to the lisp, but I may have commented it out (I load the module from a menu).  I'll check the code and re-compile.

[t-bear]

You shouldn't need to add the path.


What is the DEMANDLOAD variable in your dwg ... try 3

(what happens when you enter OPENDCL at the command line ?


added:
for info the ARX is at
C:\Program Files\Common Files\OpenDCL\OpenDCL.18.arx
.... but you don't need to load it or in fact shouldn't even need to know where it lives.

OpenDCL netted: "OpenDCL Runtime [6.0.0.22] loaded"
Demandload is set to "3"

This seems to have worked!  Thanks for walking me through this.  Now to figure out how to populate it.

[Matt__W]

Can you post a screenshot of what it looks like?

[t-bear]

Can you post a screenshot of what it looks like?

Can you post a screenshot of what it looks like?

how's this?

[Matt__W]

COOL!

[t-bear]

If I'm gonna use this, I'll have to redo my block naming.  With the set-up I'm using at the moment, we select the blocks more by image than name....I know, weird.
This one loads sub-folders slow too, not too bad though.  I have one folder with a LOT of 3D blocks (108) that won't load.  Is there a limit on the number of dwg files this can handle?

[jbuzbee]

tbear,

There are some performance enhancements I can try - let me see what I can do.  Initially, I just wanted to get a workable solution.  Let me see what I can do.  Any of lisper's out there: performance; let me know???

[Draftek]

I built one a few years ago that uses xml for the mapping so my users in-house and customers can use the same folders on our server.

[jbuzbee]

OK, the latest version is up in the first post at http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=32058.0.

Changes:

1. There have been performance enhancements made to the tree control. 

2. The root folder is now stored in the registry, doing away with the .dat file.  Use the directory button at the bottom of the tree control to select a directory.

3. The command has been changed to "BlockManager".

What's up next?  I'll provide more options for inserting, layer, scale, etc.  I'm also working on a version that uses drawings as containers, importing blocks via ObjectDBX.  This is favorable over inserting an entire drawing: corrupt drawings, managing standards, etc.

Let me know of any problems - thanks.

jb

[craigr]

Dog Gone IT I HATE that I can't use Lisps!!!

I wish our work could justify using the FULL version of CAD so I could use Lisps.

Sometimes I feel soooo left out

craigr

[MP]

Dog Gone IT I HATE that I can't use Lisps!!!

I wish our work could justify using the FULL version of CAD so I could use Lisps.

Sometimes I feel soooo left out

craigr

<cough> www.bricscad.com </cough>

[craigr]

Because of the cost of AutoCAD LT, I have thought about suggesting that we investigate using an alternate CAD prg. But, in my personal life, when ever I have gone with an alternate product that is a 'knock off' of a more expensive product, I usually wish that I had just spent the money on the more expensive one. - This isn't ALWAYS the case, but more times than not, it is.

The other part is that it is often in the job specs that we provide AutoCAD dwgs, sometimes right down to the version!

At times I have gotten .dwg files from outside companies that use a different CAD prg. When I do, I often expect some irregularities to get the file copied into my AutoCAD Title block. This isn't always the case, but it does happen.

Also, I have my LT sooo heavily loaded with macros, that I would hate to start over with having to create new ones with a different CAD prg. And, my engineers would have a tough time drawing without my macros. Some of them learned their CAD using my macros.

So, we stick with LT and grumble at what if doesn't have.

craigr

[MP]

image removed

[mjfarrell]

craigr,

in observing all of the issues you encounter, in using LT to perform the work, you have already justified why you should own at least one full version of ACAD
me thinks most if not all of the macros you are vested in will move right on over and continue to work, even though they might now be replaced by more robust LISP routines, and or perhaps be negated by functions that exist right out of the box

the downside to this experiment is when all the work is done; and faster on the full version what are those guys still using the LT version going to be doing?

[craigr]

A lot of the issues I encounter are usually because my personality is the kind that likes to push anything I own / use to it's full potential.

Even my Touring Motorcycle, I had to at least once run it up to see how fast it would go. I USE the 4wd on my truck for my convience, not just when I HAVE to use it, etc....

Most of my macros are simple macros to save time, to as you say, speed up my work. - I like the saying 'time is money'. And, it makes me look good to finish things much faster than others.

Unfortunately, the people here that manage the money, look at the initial outlay, more than the longterm benefits. And, they don't have a lot of money to throw around. We only have 10 seats of AutoCAD, but even LT is expensive when you are buying 10 seats. - Question, with ONE copy of Full CAD, could I export my customizationss to an LT version? I am often updating / creating more macros.

craigr

[mjfarrell]

shouldn't be any reason you couldnt pass those macros around

[TimSpangler]

ROTFLMAO  

and again ....

[jbuzbee]

Another excellent Block Manager here: http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=32391.0