Topic: Rebuilding all corridors at once in C3D

[scout]

Why oh why is the word BASELINE so confusing.....and why is it required if it doesn't ALWAYS follow it.

Yeah, the vocabulary is foggy. Basically, they call the attachment point of the constructed assembly the baseline of the assembly- which means that is the part that will tack on to the baseline alignment/profile for the region in question. So the baseline of the assembly tacks on to the corridor baseline- but only for the region of stations you specify.

[mjfarrell]

Ok, so Michael, help me understand. In my attached image, I have one baseline with six regions. Each region has a different assembly applied (with one repeat).

So let's say I wanted to kill the region from 27-53.

My frequency is tied to the region, so if there is no region there is no sampling interval.

And even if it did somehow have a sampling interval- what would it apply? Which assembly? How does it figure out how to transition between to very different assemblies without some guidance from me? What would you want it to assume?

If I understand better, I have a better chance to explaining it to others.

The sampled interval would be as specified in the command settings....The assembly that would be applied at your Transition Station would be whichever one YOU inserted,

the software would then take the assembly BASELINE point of the Back Station assembly, and project it ALONG the BASLINE alignment it (the corridor region) is connected to. Should a particular point code NOT exist on the assembly ahead it would be dropped...

However all assemblies have a BASELINE Point with their definition so that particular point would always have a similar point on the ahead station assembly to connect to, so there would be nothing to drop, and no legitimate reason for whatever WAS projected to NOT remain connected to the baseline...

[mjfarrell]

Why oh why is the word BASELINE so confusing.....and why is it required if it doesn't ALWAYS follow it.

Yeah, the vocabulary is foggy. Basically, they call the attachment point of the constructed assembly the baseline of the assembly- which means that is the part that will tack on to the baseline alignment/profile for the region in question. So the baseline of the assembly tacks on to the corridor baseline- but only for the region of stations you specify.

Combine that language with the definition of how the corriodor is supposed to behave, i.e. Tied to the Baseline....

Irrespective of what it really does, it is clearly stated that the assembly objects are TIED to the baseline, and it should function as defined.  It's a defect that one can only use the power of this function when one needs to transion from one assembly to another on straight tangent segements of the baseline alignment.

[scout]

However all assemblies have a BASELINE Point with their definition so that particular point would always have a similar point on the ahead station assembly to connect to, so there would be nothing to drop, and no legitimate reason for whatever WAS projected to NOT remain connected to the baseline...

so like in my stream example- let's say I applied my pool assembly at station 10, then left a gap until applying my step assembly at station 100. You'd expect it to perhaps figure- 100-10 = 90, then figure out how much to squeeze the assembly incrementally at each sampled station following whatever curves were in the baseline alignment.

Something kinda sorta like this really bad mock up?

[scout]

Combine that language with the definition of how the corriodor is supposed to behave, i.e. Tied to the Baseline....

Irrespective of what it really does, it is clearly stated that the assembly objects are TIED to the baseline, and it should function as defined.  It's a defect that one can only use the power of this function when one needs to transion from one assembly to another on straight tangent segements of the baseline alignment.

It is clearly stated, as you pointed out, that assemblies are tied to the baseline for different ranges of stations.

Corridor objects are defined by associating a baseline (alignment) with sectional design elements, and other structural data. The corridor object manages the data, tying various assemblies (applied for different ranges of stations) to the baselines (alignments) and their finished grade profiles. It manages the connection of project-specific surface and alignment data to the subassembly and assembly content. The object includes corridor body geometry, longitudinal feature lines, embedded surfaces, rendering support, and slope hatching support.

[mjfarrell]

it is already doing that...only it becomes DISCONNECTED from the baseline C3D tells me that the assembly object will always remain connected to,
look at the previous images, it neatly transitions from on typical section to the next,

however in making that transition it IGNORES the sample frequency being applied to the corridor (all the way down to the command level), and disrespects the Baseline Alignment will always be followed rule....

oddly enough I think I even recall transitioning being explained in a webcast....on a straight line segment....

[mjfarrell]

you say it isn't broken now....

I'll wait until the fix to it is introduced as a NEW feature....and then you can say I told you it wasn't broken.  Right along with being able to actually use offset alignment stationing within the corridor as well. Oh yeah and maybe no Empty Band Sets...and Cross Section Sheets as part of the Plan Production tool suite.

it's broken D.....

[scout]

it is already doing that...only it becomes DISCONNECTED from the baseline C3D tells me that the assembly object will always remain connected to,

Um, yeah. It remains connected to the assembly baseline. Always. Regions have frequencies, baselines do not. The command properties say nothing about baselines, it just says frequency, and since regions own frequency...

It makes those connections because there is no math required for the linear transition. It is doing the same exercise as it does when it goes around the curve and breaks down. Connects the dots in a straight line since it has no other information.

I get what you are saying, I think there is room for improvement, but it's not a defect. And I'm not saying that because I've been brainwashed, I'm saying that because there are bigger priorities for simplified workflows and other methods for getting what we need from a a design standpoint over dissecting and misinterpreting redundant vocabulary in help.

[mjfarrell]

It is clearly stated, as you pointed out, that assemblies are tied to the baseline for different ranges of stations.

Yes only within the corridor parameters I am not specifically telling it to STOP following the select baseline for the transition station range....

That would be accomplished by ADDING a NEW Baseline, and attaching regions along, it...

Only what we are telling it, is follow this baseline with these objects....and at no point should any part of the corridor object ever STOP following the baseline we have so carefully told it to follow' irrespective of the station range.

The very fact that it will do this completely correctly on TANGENT sections, implies that it should also function completely correct on arc segments of the baseline as well. Either that or the corridor object should fail at transitioning entirely.


Come on think about it from a logic standpoint for a minute...the fact that it works on tangents is not an accident...the fact that it fails on arcs is a defect.

Or is it that the fact it works on tangents is the defect, and the failure on arcs is Exactly working as designed?

[ChristopherF]

Or is it that the fact it works on tangents is the defect, and the failure on arcs is Exactly working as designed?

That would be correct. You can apply an assembly with no subassemblies to correct this defect in your corridor models.

[scout]

Or is it that the fact it works on tangents is the defect, and the failure on arcs is Exactly working as designed?

Its working exactly as designed in both cases. It is designed for feature lines to connect like point codes. The assembly is applied to the range of stations, the points are drawn. The assembly stops, points are connected. The corridor knows to connect regions along the same baseline unless it runs into a region that doesn't have points- as Christopher points out- with the null assembly.

The fact that it happens to give you what _you_ want in the linear case is a function of simple y=mx+b.

I am actually working up something based on this conversation to figure out what kind of math the corridor would have to do in order to get us the result we are looking for. I am making 10 assemblies that vary by only one foot of width and applying it to my curvy corridor and seeing what would be needed to solve it- I am thinking it won't simply be an arc, but likely more of a parabola or spiral.

[mjfarrell]

the minute it becomes Untied from the baseline it is not functioning as described in Help file, and thus a defect... All I want is for the assembly to remain connect to and controlled by the baseline....and I'll stop calling it a defect...

[mjfarrell]

Or is it that the fact it works on tangents is the defect, and the failure on arcs is Exactly working as designed?

That would be correct. You can apply an assembly with no subassemblies to correct this defect in your corridor models.

please post an example (dwg)...trust me, I have tried many things....before declaring this functionality of the assembly leaving the baseline on arc transitions a defect.

Should one place a NULL assembly as you describe the TRANSITION function doesn't function at all.

[George]

The ASSEMBLY is tied to the baseline everywhere it is processed. Tilt into an isometric view and the Assembly will be tied to the baseline everywhere it has been processed. Show me where the ASSEMBLY is not tied to the baseline and I'll agree it's a defect. Until then, you're just on one of your usual rants and refusing to acknowledge what Scout has been overly patient in explaining.

Feature lines connecting points in space have nothing to do with the baseline connection. While I agree that a morphed section would be nice, to claim that the lack of a morphed transition is a defect is stretching the definition of defect a long damned way.

[mjfarrell]

I am not claiming that the defect is a lack of a morphed section George,  perhaps you aren't following my logical argument.

I am pointing out that specifically the help file indicates that the Assembly is ALWAYS tied to the baseline...and the fact is that the assembly becomes untied from that baseline during a transition along an arc,
further the claim is that during a transition the corridor object also ignores the sampled frequency settings of the command and procedes to NOT show assembly projections through the transition region at the command level specified intervals.