Topic: Pipe Display in Section View

[Willie]

Thought I should share this.

Stormwater pipes plotted like octagons in cross-sections. 

Someone pointed me to the FACETDEV system variable able on the Civil 3D discussion forums.  You have to set it really low (0.001) to get the pipe to get the pipe to display circular and not like and octagon.

[mjfarrell]

Willie, that must be a new wrinkle with 2010, as I had not seen that development in any C3D pipes to date.  

Mine is set to .5 and everything looks fine (see attached), I wonder if it might have more to do with VIEWRES, because the help file clearly indicates FACETDEV is mostly involved in the rendering process not the display properties of circles and arcs...

FROM HELP

Arc and Circle Smoothness
Controls the smoothness of circles, arcs, and ellipses. A higher number produces smoother objects, but more time is required to regenerate, pan, and zoom the objects. You can improve performance by setting this option to a low value such as 100 for drawing, and increasing the value for rendering. The valid range is 1 to 20,000. The default setting is 1000. This setting is saved in the drawing. To change the default for new drawings, consider specifying this setting in the template files on which you base your new drawings. (VIEWRES command)


Rendered Object Smoothness
Controls the smoothness of shaded and rendered curved solids. The value you enter for Rendered Object Smoothness is multiplied by the value you enter for Arc and Circle Smoothness to determine how to display solid objects. To improve performance, set Rendered Object Smoothness to 1 or less when drawing. A higher number decreases display performance and increases rendering time. The valid range is 0.01 to 10. The default setting is 0.5. This setting is saved in the drawing. (FACETRES system variable)

So you might want to check that position.

[mjfarrell]

Further you might need to check the:

WHIPARC (sytem variable)
 
 
 
Type: Integer
Saved in: Registry
Initial value: 0

Controls whether the display of circles and arcs is smooth.

0
 Circles and arcs are not smooth, but rather are displayed as a series of vectors
 
1
 Circles and arcs are smooth, displayed as true circles and arcs
 

[Willie]

Here it the thread on the on the Civil 3D Discussion Groups.  Someone mentioned VIEWRES and the FACETDEV variables, but the have no effect on the display of the pipes in the sections.

Your section is exaggerated and mine is not.  If you change the exaggeration on your section, it will also look like a polyline.

[mjfarrell]

Very interesting, sure would be nice if the software worked as described in the help file.  However I'm curious about this because in most cases the profile views do have some vertical exaggeration applied to them.  Care to elaborate as to why or when you create profile views that don't?  I've been at this stuff since 1978, and I can't remember ever not have the profile have some vertical exaggeration applied.....
Another one of those things that should have no impact on the data as described in the help, however it does.  I would imagine that in typical autodesk fashion it wont ever be 'fixed'.  Some might say it isn't broken, however clearly the help file spells out that the variable in question 'should' have nothing to do with those pipes in section unless one was rendering them.
Well at least I learned something new to alert my students to.

Of course notice that the autodesk respondent makes no apology or acknowledgement of the defect which is typical.

[Willie]

My profile views are exaggerated by 10.  Vertical scale is 1:100 and Horizontal Scale is 1:1000.

This pipe mentioned in the post's above is in a section view. Section views is normally exaggerated 2 or 5 times, but in this case it's not exaggerated.

The help file is not very informative with the FACETDEV variable.  There's almost nothing on the topic.

[jugglerbri]

Of course notice that the autodesk respondent makes no apology or acknowledgement of the defect which is typical.

Although he is an "autodesk respondent", he's not a programmer.  He spends his days trying to help make the program better and to find solutions to the issues within the program.

[mjfarrell]

Of course notice that the autodesk respondent makes no apology or acknowledgement of the defect which is typical.

Although he is an "autodesk respondent", he's not a programmer.  He spends his days trying to help make the program better and to find solutions to the issues within the program.

And due to that fact, he should be more active in 'ringing a bell' in his post asking for or stating that someone should FIX the problem. Not to be too 'rude' for you; however it seems the apologist, now has one too.
Seeing as how you are so close, why do you not bring it up with him there in that thread, his blog, or invite him here to discuss his reluctance, or inability to affect positive changes in the application by bringing others into the discussion where we might see that YES autodesk is both aware of the defect, and ACTIVELY doing something to resolve it?

To be clear here; my goal isn't to argue with you.  It's to point out that all too often autodesk is completely aware of the defects, or difficulties the user encounters with specific parts of the application, and seemingly does nothing to resolve them.  This includes offering 'work arounds' or obfuscating the problem in the discussion groups, when the best thing they could do is first acknowledge there is a problem, and then keeping the customers appraised as to where they are in regards and actual fix for same.  And not just pass the issue on from version to version as a matter of fact.

Now if this goads you into a dialog with him, or autodesk that results in something being done to eliminate the problem or expand the definition of the stupid variable in the next help file then something good happened here.  If you just come back with a heated retort nothing was served.

[mjfarrell]

My profile views are exaggerated by 10.  Vertical scale is 1:100 and Horizontal Scale is 1:1000.

This pipe mentioned in the post's above is in a section view. Section views is normally exaggerated 2 or 5 times, but in this case it's not exaggerated.

The help file is not very informative with the FACETDEV variable.  There's almost nothing on the topic.

Thanks for that Willie, now I will be better able to anticipate when this issue may present itself in all it's ragged glory.

[Jeff_M]

...blah blah blah...
Of course notice that the autodesk respondent makes no apology or acknowledgement of the defect which is typical.

What defect? This is an object representation issue that is controlled by the FACETDEV sysvar. I found this the first time I had a crossing pipe in profile look like a octagon, which has been a few years ago now. Is it intuitive? No. Was it spelled out somewhere? No. I found it in a search of the discussion group that took all of 2-3 minutes. Once I found it, I set my template up to use a small number....although I haven't had to use anything smaller than 0.02.

Displaying Pipe Networks in Section Views
.......
Note Pipe sections are drawn using the FACETDEV (Facet Deviation) system variable. FACETDEV is set to 0.5 by default which will usually cause circular pipe sections to be displayed with eight segments. If you set FACETDEV lower, to 0.05 for example, the appearance of the pipe sections will become more circular. The lower this variable is set, the more segments will be used to draw the pipe, up to a maximum of 500.
.......

Not acknowledged? Not described? Or were you just jumping at another chance to attack Adesk and those that work for/with them?

[mjfarrell]

notice that you quote the 2010 users guide...

I'm not going to go back and install 2005, or 2006 to see if this was in that help file for those products....

perhaps not a defect...perhaps an omission...perhaps even a variable users shouldn't even need concern themselves with all?

Is it reasonable at any time that the user need dig into some obscure setting that should not need be covered in the help file at all to correct some crappy display issue for their pipes when there is no vertical exaggeration applied to their section views?   Give me a break...the developers should have found a way to not burden the user at all with this issue like many others.

So excuse me for not reading every line in every help file for every version that they have pushed out OK?

I think that it is both unreasonable and defective that a user need bother with this at all. Wrong syntax maybe; however still something the user should not ever be suddenly confronted with IMO.

[mjfarrell]

I want to thank you all for the hearty laugh I had, just before drifting off to sleep last night...

As a comic vision entered my head:

Two developers working the C3D.  Suddenly one of them says to the other, hey why are my round pipes not showing up round?
The other replies it's a joke.
The first one says, a joke?  I don't get it.
The second says, Yes isn't funny that WE know the pipes are supposed to be you know 'circular', however we let this arcane variable control them in such a fashion that they show up as Octagons, or sometimes Squares.  It's totally hilarious.
The first guy smacks his head, and meekly says yeah, I get it...very funny trick that.  And then, So we're just going to leave it like that?
The second guy says, Sure why not it's totally funny to jerk the end user around like this.  Sure we know the pipes are round, and we know the application doesn't draw them that way.  This is some funny shite.

The absurdity of it just had me in spasms of laughter.....


Yeah it's funny alright, and even more so to see folks attempt to defend that type thinking.

[Jeff_M]

FWIW, I found the same information in the 2009 Readme.....

[mjfarrell]

FWIW, I found the same information in the 2009 Readme.....

Well per my previous comments; I do not care when they put it in the help file.
This is an item that the user of the application should NEVER need concern oneself with, if they are ROUND, CIRCULAR pipes the application should draw them that way unless the user specifically asked the application to draw them as some other shape.
I will be checking in other previous installations once I get done with these classes and get back to AZ.

[ChristopherF]

FWIW, I found the same information in the 2009 Readme.....

Well per my previous comments; I do not care when they put it in the help file.
This is an item that the user of the application should NEVER need concern oneself with, if they are ROUND, CIRCULAR pipes the application should draw them that way unless the user specifically asked the application to draw them as some other shape.
I will be checking in other previous installations once I get done with these classes and get back to AZ.

I prefer the way it is now. FACETDEV helps the performance of AutoCAD/Civil 3D. The less segments drawn for a circle the better Autocad/Civil 3D should perform. Civil 3D is already demanding of resources, I'm not particularly interested in it taking up more just for aesthetics. Not everyone has the fastest computers available.