Topic: Unlicensed Acad from your teacher

[Keith™]

I suppose we could go around and around with this .. the student version of 2010 is about $150 .. it includes a CD and license key, but it does not include the manual.

The student version is fully functional and exactly the same as the full version with the exception of the educational plot stamp, which by the way can easily be defeated because it is nothing more than a setting saved in the drawing. If it is there the plot stamp is on .. not there .. plot stamp is off.

For those of you who are unaware, the only difference in the student version CD and the full version CD is the label. If you take a CD with a student version label and install it using a full license key, it will function as a full license.
This is not common knowledge ... I got the student version some time ago and when I "upgraded", I simply had to uninstall the student version and reinstall with the new key .. voila .. full version.

So all of these arguments about the student version being crippled ... not true .. the assertion that the student version is free ... also not true

If you want to argue about legitimizing an unlawful practice, at least find a compelling argument.

[Tuoni]

I suppose we could go around and around with this .. the student version of 2010 is about $150 .. it includes a CD and license key, but it does not include the manual.

The student version is fully functional and exactly the same as the full version with the exception of the educational plot stamp, which by the way can easily be defeated because it is nothing more than a setting saved in the drawing. If it is there the plot stamp is on .. not there .. plot stamp is off.

For those of you who are unaware, the only difference in the student version CD and the full version CD is the label. If you take a CD with a student version label and install it using a full license key, it will function as a full license.
This is not common knowledge ... I got the student version some time ago and when I "upgraded", I simply had to uninstall the student version and reinstall with the new key .. voila .. full version.

So all of these arguments about the student version being crippled ... not true .. the assertion that the student version is free ... also not true

If you want to argue about legitimizing an unlawful practice, at least find a compelling argument.

If you want to argue about how the practice is unethical, at least don't spread lies.

KTHX

[Tuoni]

For those of you who are unaware, the only difference in the student version CD and the full version CD is the label. If you take a CD with a student version label and install it using a full license key, it will function as a full license.
This is not common knowledge ... I got the student version some time ago and when I "upgraded", I simply had to uninstall the student version and reinstall with the new key .. voila .. full version.

So all of these arguments about the student version being crippled ... not true ..

Also:  The only difference between different Vista distros is the label and the key.  Are you telling me that Vista Basic (or whatever it's called) is exactly the same as Vista Ultimate?

[James Cannon]

So all of these arguments about the student version being crippled ... not true .. the assertion that the student version is free ... also not true

If you want to argue about legitimizing an unlawful practice, at least find a compelling argument.

We already covered what the Cripples are on different software... and you yourself state... the cripples are there... and go away when you register it with the full, paid for license... if there were no cripples then why would you need to use a paid for license?

*edit*  ugh, I'm sorry, I'm pretty crabby this morning... long, long night, and coffee isn't kicking in fast enough...

[Keith™]

...  The only difference between different Vista distros is the label and the key.  Are you telling me that Vista Basic (or whatever it's called) is exactly the same as Vista Ultimate?

We aren't talking about Vista ... your attempt to change the discussion is rejected

We already covered what the Cripples are on different software... and you yourself state... the cripples are there... and go away when you register it with the full, paid for license... if there were no cripples then why would you need to use a paid for license?

The only difference is the plot stamp .. and never did I say that the software was crippled, in fact I just re-read my comments to make sure that whatever I did say couldn't me mistaken as saying such. Your attempt to make me out to have said something is unappreciated.

plot stamp != crippled

The educational plot stamp is printed on ALL versions of AutoCAD, full license or not, if the drawing was created on a student version.

Now about AutoCAD Student version being free ... how about that .. a change from business as usual, as of the spring semester, A2k9 was $152 for a 14 month license .. it still doesn't change the fact that the software is (or at least was in A2k9) materially the same.

Tuoni, according to the Autodesk website, the one you seem to be pointing to for your information, AutoCAD was added to the free software available as of April 15, 2009, although the student engineering and design community has been available since 2006. So yeah, it has been free for about 4 months ... only to registered students or via recommendation from an educator.

All this being said still doesn't excuse piracy

[James Cannon]

What damage is done if a student uses a cracked version?  What damages does Autodesk have to say they have incurred?

And sorry, ever since I've been a student of drafting from 2001-2004, I've seen various places to try SELL you the Student version, or give you the CD free, and charge for the key, or what not, but the Student version was always available for free from the right places (no, not pirate ships) ... it was the textbooks that "came with" Autocad Student Version that required you buy an activation code, that I remember... silly scam, if you ask me.

If you would widen your perspective a bit, to focus on more than just AutoCAD, since the discussion, I thought, was about the principle of their software in general, and not AutoCAD, AutoDESK software is crippled in many varying ways.

I've already stated why even just a PLOT STAMP -is- a major cripple to the success and ability of a student to thrive in their student endevours.  Feel free to read back, you can read it, just as easy as I can quote it.

AutoCAD is not even the worst offender in Autodesk's lineup of handicaps.

[Tuoni]

...  The only difference between different Vista distros is the label and the key.  Are you telling me that Vista Basic (or whatever it's called) is exactly the same as Vista Ultimate?

We aren't talking about Vista ... your attempt to change the discussion is rejected

I wasn't trying to change the subject, I was merely pointing out it's a fallacy to say that because the software on the CD is the same that it's identical when installed.

Now about AutoCAD Student version being free ... how about that .. a change from business as usual, as of the spring semester, A2k9 was $152 for a 14 month license ..

Well it doesn't change the fact that it's free now.

Tuoni, according to the Autodesk website, the one you seem to be pointing to for your information, AutoCAD was added to the free software available as of April 15, 2009, although the student engineering and design community has been available since 2006. So yeah, it has been free for about 4 months ... only to registered students or via recommendation from an educator.

Yes, I realise this.  I've been a member of the student thingie for a year or so - that's how I knew itr was free.  1) I got the email 2) I have a copy of it.

All this being said still doesn't excuse piracy

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.  However, since the software (in your words) is materially the same, and as you have just said yourself is free... how does piracy of AutoCAD by a student for use in learning cause a problem?

[Keith™]

Autocad is not crippled .. there is merely a plot stamp, thus pirating a license to remove the plot stamp does not materially affect to the ability of a student to learn.

So, I suppose we havn't been discussing the issue at the crux of the matter.

What can you do with the full version that you cannot do with the student version?

The only somewhat legitimate answer is that you can't feel all warm and fuzzy about giving a plotted drawing to a prospective employer.

Sorry, that is not a legitimate reason to steal, at least not as far as I am concerned.

Ok, so here is a better question ... Would you personally purchase a full license of AutoCAD <enter version number here> after you have completed your student training IF you had a full version given to you for free?

[James Cannon]

Autocad is not crippled .. there is merely a plot stamp, thus pirating a license to remove the plot stamp does not materially affect to the ability of a student to learn.

*sigh*... fine... here goes:

You upload a student-copy-made .dwg to any support forum, here, autodesk DG, or anywhere... yea.. just SEE how much help you get.

You print out some student drawings (not sure if they still do the watermark or border, but they used to) and see how professional it looks when you try to bring work examples to an employer.

So, I suppose we havn't been discussing the issue at the crux of the matter.

What can you do with the full version that you cannot do with the student version?

Get help?

The only somewhat legitimate answer is that you can't feel all warm and fuzzy about giving a plotted drawing to a prospective employer.

Warm and fuzzy?  You think that's all there is to it?  What an open mind you have.  Something tells me you made up your mind long before even bothering to read what anyone says.

Sorry, that is not a legitimate reason to steal, at least not as far as I am concerned.

Steal what?  What is Autodesk missing?

Ok, so here is a better question ... Would you personally purchase a full license of AutoCAD <enter version number here> after you have completed your student training IF you had a full version given to you for free?

Am I making money with it?  If so, yes.
Am I simple a continuing student of the trade?  Probably not, no.

[Tuoni]

Sorry, that is not a legitimate reason to steal, at least not as far as I am concerned.

Piracy != stealing.  Piracy != theft.  Even though this is true in all cases, it has been proven in this thread that nothing is "stolen" from AutoDesk by a student pirating a copy of AutoCAD.  They lose nothing.  They gain a locked-in student.

Ok, so here is a better question ... Would you personally purchase a full license of AutoCAD <enter version number here> after you have completed your student training IF you had a full version given to you for free?

Why would I purchase a copy if I was given one?  That's like saying would I go out and buy a copy of Windows 7 even though I get it for free anyway?  Please rephrase that question, I'm honestly not quite sure what you're getting at.

[mjfarrell]

As a prospective employer of a user of autocad, or any product; I would have no issue with a STUDENT showing me work done on a(n) educational version of any product autocad or otherwise.  Because I would know and understand that as a STUDENT they might not own or have access to the full version of the product.  The fact that they took the time and energy to learn or master any version of the software product(s) I need them to know how to operate is a plus to me. 

I would never have a problem with a STUDENT showing me their STUDENT projects as evidence of the lack of drive or tenacity to learn said applications.  The opposite would be true. 

"Gee Mr. Employer I can't show you samples of my work; because I only have the STUDENT version."  Is going to get you NOT employed faster than showing me samples from a STUDENT version will get you the job.

And none of this has anything to do with any software publisher making any profit from the STUDENT version or not.

[Keith™]

Geez .. you guys are really spinning this one ...

Ok, you are a "student" ... you should be getting "help" from your instructor and labs at school, however, that being said, I recognize that there is a huge amount of help available for people in online resources. I have seen only a few instances where getting help required uploading a drawing, but I recognize the need does exist, however, that is a failure of people and their ignorance, not a failure of Autodesk and their plot stamp scheme. Opening a student version drawing will not cause every file to be infected, but using said file in a different drawing WILL. So as far as people not wanting student version drawings uploaded to forums and the such, it is because someone may use your drawing in another, thus they are taking your work for their own and subsequently they have the educational plot stamp as well. Seems perfectly logical to me ... but just in case I haven't been clear ... I have no problems with helping someone who has a student version drawing that I need to look at in order to resolve the issue, and there are lots of other folks who don't have a problem with it. Mainly because I won't be using it except to diagnose the issue, when the issue is resolved the drawing is trashed.
~ plot stamp is inconsequential

Tuoni ... the question is relatively simple ... but I'll play along ...
Lets say you were given AutoCAD 2010 full version by your instructor and rather than use a student version, you used the "full version" .. ok, fast forward to past graduation ... you still have the pirated copy of AutoCAD 2010, do you continue to use it or do you go out and spend the £2000 for a legitimate license?

[James Cannon]

Ok, you are a "student" ... you should be getting "help" from your instructor and labs at school,

Those who can, do... those who can't... teach.  I learned more on theSwamp, in a few months than my entire academic career.

however, that being said, I recognize that there is a huge amount of help available for people in online resources. I have seen only a few instances where getting help required uploading a drawing, but I recognize the need does exist, however, that is a failure of people and their ignorance, not a failure of Autodesk and their plot stamp scheme.

what what whaaaaaaaaat?  A "few" instances?  You're joking right?  I'll eat my hat if you go through the "Dynamic Blocks" section and tell me that less than 3/4 of the threads pertaining to a specific project/problem did not benefit from the uploading of the drawing.

Opening a student version drawing will not cause every file to be infected, but using said file in a different drawing WILL. So as far as people not wanting student version drawings uploaded to forums and the such, it is because someone may use your drawing in another, thus they are taking your work for their own and subsequently they have the educational plot stamp as well. Seems perfectly logical to me ... but just in case I haven't been clear ... I have no problems with helping someone who has a student version drawing that I need to look at in order to resolve the issue, and there are lots of other folks who don't have a problem with it. Mainly because I won't be using it except to diagnose the issue, when the issue is resolved the drawing is trashed.
~ plot stamp is inconsequential

Now who's spinning.

I'm talking about reality, not your ideal, contrived, world where people won't fear the plot stamp.  Simple fact: people run like gazelle from a lion when someone says "Warning: educational file!"

I don't mind helping people with an educational file either... I click right on by the warning Autocad pops up... doesn't change the simple fact that most don't.  Reality.

[mjfarrell]

I have never had any issues working with a(n) Educational file.

I will help any and all users; more prevalent are issues I run into due to version or prodcut incompatibility.

[Tuoni]

Tuoni ... the question is relatively simple ... but I'll play along ...
Lets say you were given AutoCAD 2010 full version by your instructor and rather than use a student version, you used the "full version" .. ok, fast forward to past graduation ... you still have the pirated copy of AutoCAD 2010, do you continue to use it or do you go out and spend the Ł2000 for a legitimate license?

If I was earning money off it, I would go out and buy the license.  Though, actually, I'd get a developer license.  If I was using it to learn and get to grips with the software (which is ultimately in AutoDesk's favour...) then in your example no, I wouldn't.  I'd continue to use the pirated version.  AutoDesk *still* haven't lost a penny, because in that case I wouldn't go out and buy the license anyway!