Author Topic: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump  (Read 10994 times)

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uncoolperson

  • Guest
planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« on: June 16, 2009, 12:04:35 PM »
Using Electrical, and lots of custom stuff.

Anyone got suggestions of things to watch for?

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 10:20:47 AM »
"Custom Stuff" meaning lsp, dcl, dvb, ect...?

Right off the top I ran into a few things when I tested it out.
Custom routines will likely all need updated to new command formats.
The CUI is very slow as a menu editor.
CUI files become compiled cuix files.
Which is a zip file containing all of the menu's and toolbar icons as well as its own mapping codes.

Toolbars just brings up the CUI engine instead, again, extremely slow.
You may have to manually redo all of your image buttons for tool bars.
The Ribbon will look nifty but likely drive you nuts for the resources it eats.

The file format compatability with outside clients.
If you use any AEC content it will only be useful to other 2010 users.

uncoolperson

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 01:09:13 PM »
"Custom Stuff" meaning lsp, dcl, dvb, ect...?

Right off the top I ran into a few things when I tested it out.
Custom routines will likely all need updated to new command formats.
The CUI is very slow as a menu editor.
CUI files become compiled cuix files.
Which is a zip file containing all of the menu's and toolbar icons as well as its own mapping codes.

Toolbars just brings up the CUI engine instead, again, extremely slow.
You may have to manually redo all of your image buttons for tool bars.
The Ribbon will look nifty but likely drive you nuts for the resources it eats.

The file format compatability with outside clients.
If you use any AEC content it will only be useful to other 2010 users.

yeah, lisp and junk... started the transition to 08, but work picked up and I had to do other stuff.

Not looking forward to the ribbon.

No one outside of this company get's our files, only pdfs.

I'm really concerned about the electrical stuff, the way I have stuff working the electrical stuff doesn't really function anything like it was intended to, now it works like the sales team convinced my boss it would (and then some, *big self back pat*). none of the electrical commands are retained, the ideas and available functions are used though.

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 01:57:12 PM »
If you are using the Electrical vertical then it would be in your best interest to setup your default template file with everything standardized to your needs. Like the layer keys, AEC content libraries, etc...

More often than not, when you send the files out to outside parties you end up using the -ExportToAutoCAD function.
Other than that, you will have some time involved setting up your layer structure to your liking then re-using that as your default template everytime the interface opens. Reference your clients files as XREF's into the template.

How many users do you have in your place? (If you dont mind me asking?)

uncoolperson

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 02:12:00 PM »
10 and 6, two depts... the 6 4 will be using it for the electrical, the 10 will be fighting with me and probably never do anything to any kind of standard.



edit: forgot that group got smaller over the last few weeks

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 04:59:26 PM »
Do you centralize your customizations and blocks?
Also, have you ever used palettes before?

uncoolperson

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 10:54:11 PM »
sorta
yes
yes

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 09:20:39 PM »
The CUI will be a dramatic change, it has its benefits and its pitfalls.
The cuix files it generates for menu's and tool bars is actually a compiled zip file containing the toolbar buttons as well as assembly code. I had ventured converting all to ribbon controls in 2010. It is actually much more stable than it ws in 2009. But I have not taken that path yet for a key reason. The interface is dramatic in its changes and I wanted to keep familiar controls available to my Engineering users because of that reason.
For example: The interface has a Start menu system that works like Vista's start menu.
 
Pull down menus can be hidden and simply used from this new start menu system as well.
The search box in the start menu icon (which is a big red "A" in the upper left) will allow you to type a keyword for any of your existing as well as custom commands so make sure you think through your customizations carefully and name them intuitively for your users. It is a great productivity tool that can reduce the learning time adapting.

The quick access menu appears in the title bar of the interface.
So more than likely you will want to place your "Standard" toolbar items into it to save on screen real estate.

Save your custom layout of toolabars to your Workspace. Not in the profile.
Backup regularly. I find local cui files can currupt themselves when a major network failure occurs.

The XREF Manager & Layer Manager are now in a palette interface to autohide on a whim like the tool palettes.

I have not tested the network deployment of shared palettes with 2010 yet. But I have found it troublesome all the way through 2009's interface. I still use 2007 to make my palettes because of read failures from 2009 created palettes. This may be due to the fact we use the MEP vertical which disabled the ability to import & export through the palette customization interface in 2009 versions. I have to boot up in a standard AutoCAD version to get that functionality back. I found this fairly terrible and closer to a punishment for upgrading to the MEP vertical. I hope Electrical works better with this. Also for you to share palettes with others you will have to save the profile of the workstation they are setup on. Use that as the profile for other workstations to boot from unless they don't mind having to add all of the palettes and grouping over again manually.

Currently my deployment runs on 2007, 2008 MEP, & 2009 MEP from the same central customizations. Unfortunately some aec content & mtext objects have a detrimental production issue. It crashes when publishing in 2008 & 2009. Both interfaces are unable to diagnose the problem and service pack 3 (for 2009) has not resolved the issue. Until this is resolved I am holding off moving farther forward with 2010. Hopefully you will have better luck with this than we have. It doesn't happen with every file just a few files and never the same objects or entities are to blame currently. I remove the customizations and it still happens so it isn't the items we have added. Its not the workstations, I have switched between them, formatted new ones with fresh installs of Windows Xp Pro and the software. So it is becoming a daunting issue. Some files I had to go as far as DXFOUT to get rid of the problem in one client XREF file. This was even after using the -ExportToAutoCAD command on the files to begin with. Some aec custom items simply will not purge. They won't recognize or repair with a recover or audit either. I simply get a dialog about older aec content may not be compatable and saving will change them. Of course part of it is the diversity of client files I receive from multiple versions of Revit, AutoCAD verticals, Intergraph, etc... . I am considering DXFOUT as a last resort but the layer structures are messed up after that.

Other than that, just be methodical with your deployment. And do not take the quick conversions of them for granted. You have a longer period of conversion than you think. The interface and file formats complexity has increased dramatically with the benefits of the new tools and intelligent objects. Use an Enterprise CUI for your custom tools. This will allow you to share workspaces as presets.

Lastly, you will need some horsepower for the upgraded version.
At least dual cores and 2GB of ram with a 512 MB video card or higher for reasonable performance.
Otherwise you will be waiting on controls often. Initial use of the new mini controls still lags on first use until it is cached. The Quick Properties is one of these items. It is decent but I prefer the properties palette on autohide over quick properties. The reactor here in the swamp for the cannoscale control is awesome and works for 2010 as well. It lets you control dimscale, ltscale, msltscale, psltscale all from that scale list once setup. Annotative objects can be confusing and problematic to work with. This was my choice to bypass their uses in our standards.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 10:28:13 AM by KewlToyZ »

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 09:28:49 PM »
A few bonuses outside the interface;
The Reference Manager is more powerful and stable than ever but you will have to be careful using the new 2010 file format. Older interfaces will not be able to edit any of the 2010 aec content. Using AutoCAD or TrueView 2010 to convert files will remove functionality from those aec objects as well if you convert them back to older versions.
Design Review for TR's & Markups is nice free alternative for managers that review rather than work with the CAD tools as well. It ports the markups back to the CAD drawings well and easily for the users to keep things moving along smoothly.

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 10:03:19 PM »
New variables abound inside the file formats.
Here is my general list in the acad20XXdoc.lsp

A few troublesome ones to contend with in troubleshooting:
;=========================   A   
(command "ACADLSPASDOC" 1)

(command "ATTDIA" 1)      
; Controls whether the INSERT command uses a dialog box for attribute value entry.
; 1 = Uses a dialog box

(command "ANNOTATIVEDWG" 0)   
; Specifies whether or not the drawing will behave as an annotative block when inserted into another drawing -
; 0 = False

(command "ATTMODE" 1)      
; Attribute mode is normal so displayed will show, invisible will not show in drawing:
; 0 sets all to invisible, 2 makes all visible

;(command "ATTREQ" 0)      
;Assumes the defaults for all block attributes on insert

;(command "ATTIPE" 0)      
;Controls whether the display of the in-place editor is used to create multi-line block attributes on insert

;(command "ATTDIA" 0)      
;Controls the whether the dialog box or command prompt is used for all block attributes on insert

;(command "ATTMULTI" 0)      
;Controls whether the multi-line block attributes CAN BE CREATED

(command "AUDITCTL" 0)      
; Prevents Audit from creating adt files

(command "AFLAGS" 0)      
; Sets options for attributes. 0 = No attribute mode selected

;(command "ADCSTATE" 0)

;(command "ACTRECORDERSTATE" 0)


;=========================   B    ==================
;(command "BACKGROUNDPLOT" 0)      
; Controls whether background plotting is turned on or off for plotting and publishing.
; (0 background is off for both)  2 for publish in background or 3 background PLOT/PUBLISH warning notices

(command "BINDTYPE" 1)         
; Controls how xref names are handled when binding xrefs or editing xrefs in place. -- Insert-like behavior ("xref1|one" becomes "one")

;(command "BLOCKEDITLOCK" 0)      
; DISABLES THE BLOCK EDITOR FOR THE PROPERTIES DIALOG ON DOUBLE CLICK

(command "BLIPMODE" 0)         
; Turns off marker blips

;=========================   C    ==================
(command "CMDDIA" 1)         
; Controls the display of the In-Place Text Editor for the LEADER and QLEADER commands.

(command "coords" 2)         
; The absolute coordinates of your pointing device is updated continuously except when a point,
; distance, or angle is requested. In that case, relative polar coordinates are displayed instead of X and Y.
; The Z values always display as absolute coordinates.

;(command "CIPMODE" 0)         
; DISABLES CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE PROGRAM


;=========================   D    ==================
(command "drawingrecoveryhide")      
; Closes the Drawing Recovery Manager.

(command "DXEVAL" 0)         
; ALWAYS UPDATES LINKED REFERENCES

(command "DRAGMODE" "Auto")      
; Turns on the ghosted display of objects when copying or moving

(command "dctmain" "enu")      
; Main Dictionary is English

;------------------------------------------------------------
(prompt "\n\n   Dimension variables of environment are set!!\n")


;=========================   E    ==================
(command "EXPERT" 1)      
; adjusts normal elevated prompts

;=========================   F    ==================
(command "FILEDIA" 1)      
;  Displays dialog boxes.
; However, if a script or AutoLISP/ObjectARX™ program is active, an ordinary prompt is displayed.

(command "fontalt" "simplex.shx")


;=========================   G    ==================


;=========================   H    ==================


;=========================   I    ==================
(command "imageframe" 2)      
; Image frames are displayed but not plotted.

(command "INSUNITS"    1)      
; Set to Inches - Specifies a drawing-units value for automatic scaling of blocks, images,
; or xrefs inserted or attached to a drawing.

(command "insunitsdefsource" 1)      
; Sets source content units value when INSUNITS is set to 0.

;(command "INDEXCTL" 3)            
; Attempt to set the drawing extents to only what is displayed in XCLIP for XREF handling:
; Spatial And Layer Indexes are saved in the drawing and minimize demand loading

;=========================   J    ==================


;=========================   K    ==================


;=========================   L    ==================
(setvar "LAYEREVAL" 0)            
; turns off XREF layer warning controls

(setvar "LAYEREVALCTL" 0)         
; turns off layer EVALUATION warning controls

(setvar "LAYERNOTIFY" 0)         
; turns off unreconciled layer warning controls

(setvar "LAYLOCKFADECTL" 0)         
; adjusts layer locked fade controls

(command "LAYERFILTERALERT" 1)         
; LAYER MANAGER OPENS AND AUTOMATICALLY DELETES LAYER FILTERS WITHOUT PROMPT

(prompt "\n   Layer Handling variables set!!\n")

;=========================   M    ==================
(command "MIRRTEXT" 0)         
; Retains normal Text Direction

(command "MSLTSCALE" 0)         
; Linetypes displayed on the Model tab are not scaled by the annotation scale

;=========================   N    ==================


;=========================   O    ==================
(command "OLEQUALITY" 0)            
; Sets OLE object (like Excel Files) to print monochrome


;=========================   P    ==================
(command "PDMODE" 1)         
; Controls how point objects are displayed.  (0=. 1=blank  2=+  3=x  4=|)

(command "PUBLISHCOLLATE" 0)      
; A published sheet set is processed one sheet at a time.
; Separate PLT and PDF files are created for each sheet.
; If the sheet set is published, the sheets might be interleaved with other plot jobs.

(command "PUBLISHALLSHEETS" 0)      
; Only the current document's contents (layouts and/or model space) are automatically loaded in the publish list

(command "pickstyle" 0)         
; No group selection or associative hatch selection on mouse over high lighting

(command "PROXYNOTICE" 0)      
; disables proxy graphics warning notice

(command "PLQUIET" 1)         
; disables PLOT/PUBLISH warning notices

(command "PROXYGRAPHICS" 1)      
; Saves image with the drawing

(command "PROXYSHOW" 1)         
; Graphic images are displayed for all proxy objects

(command "PSLTSCALE" 0)         
; No special linetype scaling.
; Linetype dash lengths are based on the drawing units of the space (model or paper)
; in which the objects were created. Scaled by the global LTSCALE factor.

(prompt "\n   Model Space & Paper Space LTScale Varaibles set to 0!! \n   Defaults to LTSCALE settings now!\n")

;=========================   Q    ==================


;=========================   R    ==================
(command "rememberfolders" 1)         
; Sets the previous folder to open with each dialog

(COMMAND "REGENAUTO" "ON")         
; Regenerates the drawing immediately if any suppressed regenerations exist in the queue
; and continues to regenerate automatically whenever you perform an action that requires regeneration.

(COMMAND "REGENMODE" 1)            
; Turns on the REGENAUTO command option

(command "recoverymode" 0)         
; Recovery information is not recorded,
; the Drawing Recovery window does not display automatically after a system failure,
; and any recovery information in the system registry is removed


;=========================   S    ==================
(command "savetime" 15)            
; AutoSave set to 15 minutes

(command "SDI" 0)            
; Single Document Mode Property setting to False allowing multiple files to be opened.

(command "sigwarn" 0)            
; Digital Signature Warning is not presented if a file has a valid signature

(command "STANDARDSVIOLATION" 0)      
; disables standards warning notice

(command "savefilepath" "C:\\Autosave")    
; Local AutoSave directory - Create a folder so emergency recovery is a snap for users.


;=========================   T    ==================
(command "TEXTFILL" 1)


;=========================   U    ==================

;=========================   V    ==================
(command "VISRETAIN" 1)            
; Xref-dependent layer changes made in the current drawing take precedence.
; Layer settings are saved with the current drawing's layer table and persist from session to session.

;(command "VSSTATE" 0)   
; SMOOTH VIEW TRANSITIONS ENABLED FOR PAN/ZOOM BUT TURNED OFF FOR SCRIPTS

(command "VTDURATION" "750")   
; SMOOTH VIEW TRANSITIONS SPEED IN MILLISECONDS

(command "VTENABLE" 3)   
; SMOOTH VIEW TRANSITIONS ENABLED FOR PAN/ZOOM BUT TURNED OFF FOR SCRIPTS


;=========================   W    ==================


;=========================   X    ==================
; sets the directory for XREF copies to lock instead of locking people out of the XREF files themselves.
(command "XLOADPATH" "C:\\Windows\\Temp") ; XREF local temp folder location

(command "XLOADCTL" 2)   
; Creates XREF copies to lock instead of locking people out of the XREF files themselves.

(command "XREFNOTIFY" 1)   
;NOTIFIES IF XREF HAS CHANGED WHILE FILE IS OPENED

(command "XREFCTL" 0)   
;WHETHER XREF XLG LOG IS CREATED

;(command "XCLIPFRAME" 1)         
; XCLIP FRAMES ARE VISIBLE.

(command "XCLIPFRAME" 0)         
; ALWAYS HIDES XCLIP FRAMES FROM PLOTTING AND VIEWING


;=========================   Y    ==================


;=========================   Z    ==================

uncoolperson

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2009, 10:42:18 AM »
wow, thanks

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2009, 11:03:38 AM »
You are welcome sir. Let us know if you have any questions.
I am doing an open hobby interface for customizations to show the swamps contributions as well as a simple structure for adding customizations to AutoCAD versions. I'll post it as soon as I have it formatted and the approval from the swamp crew. I am sure there will be quite a few items to critique and insure proper credits are placed in the code routines.
Have a great weekend  ;-)

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2009, 09:36:21 AM »
Some new ones I am finding the past few days that are pretty critical:

(command "ANNOTATIVEDWG" 0)   
; Specifies whether or not the drawing will behave as an annotative block when inserted into another drawing
; 0    Nonannotative
; 1    Annotative
; Note   The ANNOTATIVEDWG system variable becomes read-only if the drawing contains annotative objects.

;  (princ "\n")
(command "ANNOAUTOSCALE" -4)
;   Updates annotative objects to support the annotation scale when the annotation scale is changed.
;   When the value is negative, the autoscale functionality is turned off, but the settings are maintained:
; 1   Adds the newly set annotation scale to annotative objects that support the current scale except for those on layers that are turned off, frozen, locked or that are set to Viewport > Freeze.
; -1    ANNOAUTOSCALE is turned off, but when turned back on is set to 1.
; 2   Adds the newly set annotation scale to annotative objects that support the current scale except for those on layers that are turned off, frozen, or that are set to Viewport > Freeze.
; -2    ANNOAUTOSCALE is turned off, but when turned back on is set to 2.
; 3   Adds the newly set annotation scale to annotative objects that support the current scale except for those on layers that are locked.
; -3   ANNOAUTOSCALE is turned off, but when turned back on is set to 3.
; 4   Adds the newly set annotation scale to all annotative objects that support the current scale.
; -4    ANNOAUTOSCALE is turned off, but when turned back on is set to 4.


(command "ANNOALLVISIBLE" 1)   
;   Hides or displays annotative objects that do not support the current annotation scale.
;   The ANNOALLVISIBLE setting is saved individually for model space and each layout.
;   Note   When ANNOALLVISIBLE is set to 1, annotative objects that support more than one scale will only display one scale representation.
;   0   Only annotative objects that support the current annotation scale are displayed
;   1    All annotative objects are displayed

(command "PEDITACCEPT" 1)
; Change splines to plines using PEDIT

(command "savefidelity" 0)            
; Horrible Annotation Scales system variable that can ruin projects:
; do not turn on unless you want to reiterate through every anno scale
; of every xref nested over and over again causing load time to seem like your workstation is locked up.

(command "XFADECTL" 0)            
;Turns off XREF Fade controls - Settings are 90 through -90
;  (princ "\n")
(command "XDWGFADECTL" 0)         
;Turns off XREF Fade controls - Settings are 90 through -90
;  (princ "\n")

;DWFADJUST
;Adjust the fade, contrast, and monochrome settings of a DWF or DWFx underlay.

;DGNADJUST
;Adjust the fade, contrast, and monochrome settings of a DGN underlay.

;PDFADJUST
;Adjust the fade, contrast, and monochrome settings of a PDF underlay.

uncoolperson

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2009, 12:57:13 PM »
good golly this is messy

KewlToyZ

  • Guest
Re: planning on making the 05 to 10 jump
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 01:50:52 PM »
I found partial customization files creating more trouble than good.
Converting old files to Enterprise files generates a very slow load time also.
Best to use the transfer tab and crate a new cuix dragging everything in and using this file for the enterprise file.
I created my own Ribbon Panels and Tabs to group them in.
Updating a tab will mean you have to remove it and re add it to an Enterprise workspace.
Otherwise it generates duplicates with missing data.
Copying workspaces creates duplicate entries and a real mess.
Customizing the quick access menu: you should name it something besides the default names.
If you copy a workspace it creates an empty useless entry in quick access menus.
I decided to offer options to my users, everything available in either: menus, ribbon, or toolbars.
I created a default workspace to contain a classic looking layout, a ribbon based layout, one with menu-ribbon-menus all displayed, & a menu based layout.
It seemed to satisfy them when saving their own preferred layout.
Shortcuts the process for their initial setup.