Author Topic: Label Sizes  (Read 10644 times)

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dfarris75

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Label Sizes
« on: December 11, 2008, 12:05:17 PM »
Is there a way to shrink the size of a C3d label after you have created it? I have some that show in a viewport for a different scale dwg than what they were originally for, but I want the label's size to remain static as opposed to changing with the viewport (being annotative). I can change the size in the style of course, but when I do this the labels already in the dwg do not update. The only way to get them to update is to switch them to a different style and then back, but I lose the text edits then as you know.

sinc

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 12:12:34 PM »
Picky, picky...   :-)

I think you're stuck.  I was just looking for an option to keep label styles from resizing with the viewport, and there doesn't seem to be one.  So it looks like, if you want text that does not automatically resize, you're stuck using MTEXT.  Or change the label style, if that will work in your particular case.

As for losing your override text when you change styles, all I can say is complain to Autodesk.  I've been complaining about this issue since the 2007 version of the program, and more people need to complain if we ever want to see it fixed.  We need lots of people to complain, so we can manage to cross Autodesk's "Is it really a problem?" threshold.

dfarris75

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 01:03:54 PM »
We're using '08 with no plan to upgrade to '09 so Autodesk would likely pay little attention to our complaints.

I worked it out simply by modifying the page setup and scaling the border/t-block by 2 (to match the original scale) and then in the page setup I set the print scale to 2 so it prints at the desired scale.  :wink:

sinc

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 02:18:02 PM »
I've used that trick myself on occasion.  I seem to remember also needing to turn off the "Scale lineweights" option, or something like that.

ChristopherF

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 09:01:29 PM »
... and more people need to complain if we ever want to see it fixed.

Didn't AD allow what you want with the Drawing Scale Conversion ability in expressions? Doesn't work in 2008 though.

sinc

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 09:40:04 PM »
... and more people need to complain if we ever want to see it fixed.

Didn't AD allow what you want with the Drawing Scale Conversion ability in expressions? Doesn't work in 2008 though.

I don't see how.  As far as I know, the text overrides will ALWAYS reset when the label style is changed.  They also reset when the label is copy/pasted into another drawing, or when one drawing is inserted into another.

ChristopherF

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 12:49:13 AM »
... and more people need to complain if we ever want to see it fixed.

Didn't AD allow what you want with the Drawing Scale Conversion ability in expressions? Doesn't work in 2008 though.

I don't see how.  As far as I know, the text overrides will ALWAYS reset when the label style is changed.  They also reset when the label is copy/pasted into another drawing, or when one drawing is inserted into another.

Create an expression such as IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}=600,0.1/12,IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}>1100,0.2/12,0.5/12)) then use the expression to set the height of the label components.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. http://blog.civil3dreminders.com/2008/03/drawing-conversion-scale-example.html

mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 07:04:28 AM »
Create an expression such as IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}=600,0.1/12,IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}>1100,0.2/12,0.5/12)) then use the expression to set the height of the label components.


Do you really think that adding this expression to every single label (STYLE) in a drawing is a 'workable' solution?

*  Edited to add word STYLE to sentence for added clarity  *
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 07:22:19 AM by mjfarrell »
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Michael Farrell
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sinc

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 08:14:27 AM »
... and more people need to complain if we ever want to see it fixed.

Didn't AD allow what you want with the Drawing Scale Conversion ability in expressions? Doesn't work in 2008 though.

I don't see how.  As far as I know, the text overrides will ALWAYS reset when the label style is changed.  They also reset when the label is copy/pasted into another drawing, or when one drawing is inserted into another.

Create an expression such as IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}=600,0.1/12,IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}>1100,0.2/12,0.5/12)) then use the expression to set the height of the label components.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. http://blog.civil3dreminders.com/2008/03/drawing-conversion-scale-example.html

OK, that may solve the height problem in an EXTREMELY nasty and user-unfriendly way.  This is a great example of how user-unfriendly C3D is.  But if it works, it works...

But the problem I was saying I've wanted fixed since the 2007 version and there's no sign of it ever being fixed is the one where the Text Overrides get reset.  AFAIK, there is no solution to that problem.

ChristopherF

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 11:01:14 AM »
Do you really think that adding this expression to every single label in a drawing is a 'workable' solution?

If the OP was using 2009 it would be more workable than changing the labels and then fixing all of the text overrides in the labels. If I wanted to use this capability I would set my template up with the label components to have an expression for the text height as the height for the label, as 0.1" for example. Then if I ran into the problem in question I'd go in and change the expression to have the text height not adjust. I'm not saying its the best way, I'm just saying there is a way to do it and it does it in away that doesn't reset the text overrides. I am trying to give a method for a future viewer of this thread, who is using 2009, an option other than it can't be done. And it would be every label style in the drawing, not every label in the drawing.


Christopher
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mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 07:21:11 AM »
Do you really think that adding this expression to every single label in a drawing is a 'workable' solution?

 And it would be every label style in the drawing, not every label in the drawing.


Christopher

Every Label, every label style let's not split hairs.  I think we all know what was meant.

And either way it would be a lot of work to add that expression to Every Single Label STYLE in a drawing for this 'hack' to be employed.
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sinc

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2008, 10:45:50 AM »
I am trying to give a method for a future viewer of this thread, who is using 2009, an option other than it can't be done. And it would be every label style in the drawing, not every label in the drawing.

Christopher, note that we understand this.  It's just that we're disgusted.  Not with you or your solution, but with Civil 3D.

Compare your solution with an option to use a fixed scale, such as we have with the Point Marker Styles.  With that option, we could simply specify the "Use Fixed Scale" option and key in the text height and scale we want to use, or specify the "Use Absolute Value" and key in a text height directly.

Compare that to using "IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}=600,0.1/12,IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}>1100,0.2/12,0.5/12))".

Also consider how difficult it is to even FIND the "Drawing Scale Conversion", THEN realize that you can use it in the Text Height property in the style component, THEN figure out how the "Drawing Scale Conversion" even works.  I could not find anything on it in the help myself, and tried to use it several times and failed.  Then, by looking at your blog, I discovered that the "Drawing Scale Conversion" is the Drawing Scale * the Paperspace Unit conversion, and was finally able to figure out how to get it to work.

The really atrocious thing is that there are A LOT of things in C3D that are just as convoluted.  That's the big reason why I seriously doubt the viability of this program.  If Autodesk had been improving the UI over the years, and it was constantly getting easier-to-use, then I would feel better.  But the UI has basically gone unchanged since I first saw it, in C3D 2006.  So for four releases now, the UI has been basically the same - an unmanageable piece of garbage.  It is very disturbing.

That's why you might be detecting some emotion in this thread.  It's not directed at you.  It is extreme disappointment in Autodesk.

sinc

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2008, 11:46:09 AM »
It also appears that Expressions are not available for General Note Labels, so this trick can't be used there.

BlackBox

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2015, 01:32:59 PM »
... and more people need to complain if we ever want to see it fixed.

Didn't AD allow what you want with the Drawing Scale Conversion ability in expressions? Doesn't work in 2008 though.

I don't see how.  As far as I know, the text overrides will ALWAYS reset when the label style is changed.  They also reset when the label is copy/pasted into another drawing, or when one drawing is inserted into another.

Create an expression such as IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}=600,0.1/12,IF({Drawing Scale Conversion}>1100,0.2/12,0.5/12)) then use the expression to set the height of the label components.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. http://blog.civil3dreminders.com/2008/03/drawing-conversion-scale-example.html

Here it is, 2015 is coming to an end, and this is still the same issue we face today using 2016 version.

I find it pleasantly ironic, that despite that being the case, some of my favorite Civil 3D gurus (Chris, and Sinc [may he RIP]) ultimately shine the light on the two-pronged solution as it were.

Disappointed that Autodesk's done nothing with this, and related settings to-date, but still glad I stumbled across this thread... Thanks to all.

Cheers
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mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2015, 08:41:55 AM »
And this is where the ill effects of SUBSCRIPTION really show themselves.

Whereas IF autodesk had not already acquired the users MONEY they would be forced to deliver a better product to the user to get the money.
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Michael Farrell
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Mark

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2015, 02:37:54 PM »
And this is where the ill effects of SUBSCRIPTION really show themselves.

Whereas IF autodesk had not already acquired the users MONEY they would be forced to deliver a better product to the user to get the money.
Is there any software that you actually like?
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mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2015, 03:49:36 PM »
And this is where the ill effects of SUBSCRIPTION really show themselves.

Whereas IF autodesk had not already acquired the users MONEY they would be forced to deliver a better product to the user to get the money.
Is there any software that you actually like?

It is NOT the software that I dislike...

It's the damnable subscription model that allows such craptastic programming to persist without influence from market forces.
As once they have you locked in to the product there is little to NO incentive to actually fix the broken crap that is in it, or ever make it EXCEEDINGLY better.
Instead of this glacially slow incremental (at best) improvements and or upgrades.
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Michael Farrell
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mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2015, 03:50:35 PM »
add the fact that MAP still doesn't really work with Civil 3D objects, and you've just pissed me off for the next 96 days all over again!     :hahanot:
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Michael Farrell
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Dinosaur

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2015, 04:45:01 PM »
add the fact that MAP still doesn't really work with Civil 3D objects, and you've just pissed me off for the next 96 days all over again!     :hahanot:
As I recall, it was while evaluating the 2006 release that the MAP interoperability (or lack thereof) was discovered.  I think i obvious the 2005 and 2004 pre release suffered the same.  That means over the entire product history and numerous complaints with not only zero in the way of solutions, but I don't think there has been a shrug to acknowledge that it is a problem that should be addressed by Autodesk.

mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2015, 04:57:15 PM »
add the fact that MAP still doesn't really work with Civil 3D objects, and you've just pissed me off for the next 96 days all over again!     :hahanot:
As I recall, it was while evaluating the 2006 release that the MAP interoperability (or lack thereof) was discovered.  I think i obvious the 2005 and 2004 pre release suffered the same.  That means over the entire product history and numerous complaints with not only zero in the way of solutions, but I don't think there has been a shrug to acknowledge that it is a problem that should be addressed by Autodesk.

A discussion with an autodesk product person at AU and again later at a Vendor's office yielded not even the concession that it was even 'known' to be a problem.
Translation:

It isn't a problem unless we(Autodesk) say it is.

Same sort of reaction when discussion corridor object's failure to follow OFFSET Alignment stationing...
which would be a huge improvement to corridors for highways and other types of alignment based designs...however it was dismissed as " that's a Grading challenge not a corridor issue".

Failure to define a problem correctly almost always results in failing to resolve the problem.
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Michael Farrell
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BlackBox

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2015, 07:50:37 PM »
And this is where the ill effects of SUBSCRIPTION really show themselves.

Whereas IF autodesk had not already acquired the users MONEY they would be forced to deliver a better product to the user to get the money.

Perpetual licenses are still available, and subscriptions hasn't even turned 5 yet, so... WTF are you even talking about?

Did you see how old this thread is before continuing the rant we see in nearly all of your threads?

Autodesk is the reason this particular issue exists, and has yet to be resolved; it has nothing to do with subscription to-date (not saying it looks more promising for future, but subscription didn't get us here Haha).

Cheers
"How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2015, 08:51:43 AM »
And this is where the ill effects of SUBSCRIPTION really show themselves.

Whereas IF autodesk had not already acquired the users MONEY they would be forced to deliver a better product to the user to get the money.

Perpetual licenses are still available, and subscriptions hasn't even turned 5 yet, so... WTF are you even talking about?

Did you see how old this thread is before continuing the rant we see in nearly all of your threads?

Autodesk is the reason this particular issue exists, and has yet to be resolved; it has nothing to do with subscription to-date (not saying it looks more promising for future, but subscription didn't get us here Haha).

Cheers

To the contrary, 'subscription' has been around far longer than 5(five) years.  If you take the time to research I have been against it from the beginning.
For all the same reasons I continue to list.

Yes I saw how old this was, and it perfectly illustrates how subscription allows autodesk to ignore problems, defects, lack of functionality.  Because they have already convinced
companies to commit money to their product with the promise of a future discount.  The product doesn't have to get any better ....because they are no longer competing on functionality.
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Michael Farrell
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cadtag

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2015, 09:38:26 AM »
And this is where the ill effects of SUBSCRIPTION really show themselves.

Whereas IF autodesk had not already acquired the users MONEY they would be forced to deliver a better product to the user to get the money.

Perpetual licenses are still available, and subscriptions hasn't even turned 5 yet, so... WTF are you even talking about?

Did you see how old this thread is before continuing the rant we see in nearly all of your threads?

Autodesk is the reason this particular issue exists, and has yet to be resolved; it has nothing to do with subscription to-date (not saying it looks more promising for future, but subscription didn't get us here Haha).

Cheers

Uhm,,, yea.  subscription has been around more like 15 years, not 5.  IIRC it was mid 90's that I first got involved with the start of subscription, then called 'VIP' or something to that effect.  Heck, Adesk still hast 'PointA.autodesk.com' as a valid URL.

And yes, subscription has been a driving factor in the weakness of improvements and fixes since R14.  Fundamentally, it's poor business to spend extensive amounts of resources doing upgrades, if a vendor has already been paid for that upgrade, yet is absolved by the EULA of the subscription of having to produce or create anything.

The sole benefit(s) to customers of the original subscription program were predictable annual costs (coupled with completely unpredictable benefits) and a change in taxation basis -- since subscription costs are directly deductible, and upgrades/license costs over $1K have to b3e treated as capital expenses and amortized.

The desktop subscription, on the other hand, encourages businesses to treat staff as disposable components -- hire on more temps & add a seat license when busy, then get rid of them as soon as the job is completed.  It's consistent with a sociopathic view of business ethics.
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BlackBox

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2015, 05:12:08 PM »
And this is where the ill effects of SUBSCRIPTION really show themselves.

Whereas IF autodesk had not already acquired the users MONEY they would be forced to deliver a better product to the user to get the money.

Perpetual licenses are still available, and subscriptions hasn't even turned 5 yet, so... WTF are you even talking about?

Did you see how old this thread is before continuing the rant we see in nearly all of your threads?

Autodesk is the reason this particular issue exists, and has yet to be resolved; it has nothing to do with subscription to-date (not saying it looks more promising for future, but subscription didn't get us here Haha).

Cheers

Uhm,,, yea.  subscription has been around more like 15 years, not 5.  IIRC it was mid 90's that I first got involved with the start of subscription, then called 'VIP' or something to that effect.  Heck, Adesk still hast 'PointA.autodesk.com' as a valid URL.

And yes, subscription has been a driving factor in the weakness of improvements and fixes since R14.  Fundamentally, it's poor business to spend extensive amounts of resources doing upgrades, if a vendor has already been paid for that upgrade, yet is absolved by the EULA of the subscription of having to produce or create anything.

The sole benefit(s) to customers of the original subscription program were predictable annual costs (coupled with completely unpredictable benefits) and a change in taxation basis -- since subscription costs are directly deductible, and upgrades/license costs over $1K have to b3e treated as capital expenses and amortized.

The desktop subscription, on the other hand, encourages businesses to treat staff as disposable components -- hire on more temps & add a seat license when busy, then get rid of them as soon as the job is completed.  It's consistent with a sociopathic view of business ethics.

So what?

Autodesk's legacy programs that offer 'services'... Wait for it... For a 'fee', does not _this_ "Subscription" make (as is defined and experienced in the current iteration of Autodesk policy). If that's all the basis for 'subscription's been around for 15 years', then methinks this a non sequitur, as I (in my limited experience) disagree with you premise, and don't really care that much, frankly. :-D Haha

Besides, if that were all that is necessary to qualify for the 'same' subscription as a service concept, then you (perhaps through side work?), I, definitely MJF through his ranting, yet informative teaching sessions, if not myriad others, _all_ offer 'subscription' as it applies to the CAD-related service(s) being contracted.



Poor MJF (not beating you down, you just keep raising your hand for this, as it were), has been b!tching about this since the dawn of "Subscription" (and it's predecessors), and it's accomplished nothing as it pertains to what we currently have available.

Cheers
"How we think determines what we do, and what we do determines what we get."

mjfarrell

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Re: Label Sizes
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2015, 05:53:18 PM »
yes because all others seem to have drank too much of the marketing cool-aide and believe it is good for them,, when it fact it isn't good for the development of the software.
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Michael Farrell
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