Author Topic: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?  (Read 9701 times)

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2008, 02:25:45 PM »

I don’t know about that, there is a warning in the documentation directing VBA developers to port their code to C#. Of course you may interpret it as propaganda if you wish  :laugh:


Daniel, which reference is this statement from?

It's in the ARX docs


Bryco

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2008, 05:16:23 PM »
Although I don't lisp, if vba goes I'm glad lisp is still going to work as net is so difficult to learn, I think we would have a lot less people being able to tinker with their cad programs. It's almost like be a professional or don't bother. I found vba very easy to learn and use and vb net is a step up but not a replacement.

SEANT

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2008, 05:26:46 AM »
In addition to the time to proficiency issue; will any of the .NET languages allow for the “quickie fix” possible with VBA or Lisp?  How long has the Minimum Task Length Savings become with .NET

For example, if I had a specific repetitive task – say 15 or 20 minutes by hand – but it had a readily discernable logic flow, then I’d be tempted to automate with VBA, even if the task was not likely to ever be required again.

Obviously, this is depends heavily on proficiency.  As it stands, even a readily discernable logic flow would have to save me several weeks for me to tackle it in C# :realmad:.  I hope to have the MTLS down to one week by the end of the year.  :-)

With the integrated IDE and immediate debugging features of VBA, it may even be faster than Lisp for the +12 line “quickies”.   I don’t know enough about VisualLisp, and its IDE to extend the comparison (for that matter, does the warning about VBA also apply to the ActiveX component of VisualLisp)

For those of you who have achieved a good level of .NET proficiency:  With the added overhead of firing up VS, the not quite immediate debugging, what do you think would be the best MTLS?   
Sean Tessier
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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2008, 06:57:47 AM »
I am sure when VBA is dropped, it will be replaced by VSTA.  Also one has to remember that VBA uses the COM API which C#/VB.NET is certainly compatible with.
Long time users of VBA “should” feel right at home using VB.NET with COM.

jbuzbee

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2008, 01:15:35 PM »
Another question would be: what can C# / VB.net do that AutoLISP / VisualLISP / OpenDCL can't do?
James Buzbee
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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 02:58:26 PM »
In addition to the time to proficiency issue; will any of the .NET languages allow for the “quickie fix” possible with VBA or Lisp?  How long has the Minimum Task Length Savings become with .NET

For example, if I had a specific repetitive task – say 15 or 20 minutes by hand – but it had a readily discernable logic flow, then I’d be tempted to automate with VBA, even if the task was not likely to ever be required again.

Obviously, this is depends heavily on proficiency.  As it stands, even a readily discernable logic flow would have to save me several weeks for me to tackle it in C# :realmad:.  I hope to have the MTLS down to one week by the end of the year.  :-)

With the integrated IDE and immediate debugging features of VBA, it may even be faster than Lisp for the +12 line “quickies”.   I don’t know enough about VisualLisp, and its IDE to extend the comparison (for that matter, does the warning about VBA also apply to the ActiveX component of VisualLisp)

For those of you who have achieved a good level of .NET proficiency:  With the added overhead of firing up VS, the not quite immediate debugging, what do you think would be the best MTLS?   

As I continue to learn c#, I find myself doing just what you are describing.  And to the debugging, I keep a spare file that just needs to be renamed and placed in the folder, and debugging works fine.
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CmdrDuh

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 03:05:12 PM »
Another question would be: what can C# / VB.net do that AutoLISP / VisualLISP / OpenDCL can't do?
I don't have an exact answer for that, but the way I see it is if you have to learn a new language, AND your proficient in VBA, then .Net is a better choice than Lisp/ODCL.  Back 8-10 years ago, when I didn't know VBA at all, and was marginally dangerous with LISP, ODCL would have been a good choice.  But now that I have learned VBA, learning .Net was a pretty easy transition.  Had I chosen VB.Net instead of C#, it would have been even easier.  My point is, if I had to choose b/t LISP and .Net right now, IMO .Net is easier to learn because of my VBA experience.  I have a very hard time using all the new LISP stuff because I have never learned it properly.  Add ODCL on top of that, and that to me is a steep learning curve.  All this is biased in that I have NEVER looked at ODCL, nor have I learned the advanced VL- commands of Vlisp.
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spiff88

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2008, 10:26:42 AM »
So...if VBA is not present in AutoCAD anymore, does that mean that you will have to have Visual Studio to write code for AutoCAD?  Or will a VBE for .NET be included?  Ideas anyone?  Or is this all just random speculation?

My coding is usually to get data from Excel into AutoCAD in some manner.  If VBA is not around to use - how can I do some of these simple things like "place this MText object here at coordinates in columns A and B with the text in column C, using font size in column D, etc..."

Will I have to write a complete application in VS to do these things?  And if so - why would I have to use C# and not VB.net?

Am I missing something in this discussion that makes my questions irrelevant?

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2008, 10:58:24 AM »
So...if VBA is not present in AutoCAD anymore, does that mean that you will have to have Visual Studio to write code for AutoCAD?  Or will a VBE for .NET be included?  Ideas anyone?  Or is this all just random speculation?

My coding is usually to get data from Excel into AutoCAD in some manner.  If VBA is not around to use - how can I do some of these simple things like "place this MText object here at coordinates in columns A and B with the text in column C, using font size in column D, etc..."

Will I have to write a complete application in VS to do these things?  And if so - why would I have to use C# and not VB.net?

Am I missing something in this discussion that makes my questions irrelevant?


VBA will be replaced by VSTA, which has its own IDE. The VSTA IDE will allow users to program in either VB .NET or C# maybe other languages too (I’m not sure).  Also from what I have read, it’s possible that the host application can have both VBA and VSTA side by side, which might help ease migration pains. .. Google VSTA

Also I would assume that while VBA might/will be removed from AutoCAD, I don’t think the COM API is going anywhere as other languages rely on it too  I.e. Visual Lisp


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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2008, 11:25:32 AM »
here is a link http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vs2005/aa700828.aspx
watch the vids at the bottom..

Dave R

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2008, 08:22:47 AM »

VBA will be replaced by VSTA...

Daniel are you sure about this? From everything I have read VSTA must be purchased from MS, whereas the Express versions of Visual Studio are freely available. MS Office isn't even shipping with VSTA yet.

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2008, 09:20:55 AM »
that macro recorder could save a lot of time, if it works.

Chuck Gabriel

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2008, 09:29:48 AM »
Revit ships with VSTA, so it's not too much of a stretch to believe that AutoCAD will eventually include it as well.  I haven't heard it straight from the horse's mouth yet, though.

spiff88

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2008, 10:50:32 AM »
that macro recorder could save a lot of time, if it works.

Exactly.

The Action Recorder built into ACAD 2009 was just not enough (http://www.blog.cadnauseam.com/2008/04/09/autocad-2009-action-recorder-needs-action/).  I've been waiting for a macro recorder in AutoCAD for just about forever.  It is incredibly helpful when learning which objects you really want to code.  The macro recorder in Excel saves me time with every use - and I continue to expand my knowledge of the Excel object module.

Maybe I am just not the programmer I imagine myself to be... ^-^

tjr

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Re: Can VBA do Everything that Vlisp can?
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2008, 11:52:30 PM »
Another question would be: what can C# / VB.net do that AutoLISP / VisualLISP / OpenDCL can't do?
Legible code? :)

All kidding aside the .NET framework and from what little I know about AutoCAD's lisp variants, they are so different it's hard to compare. Language features aside .NET blows AutoCAD's lisp away in libraries alone. This is big to a lot of people.