Author Topic: Bentley, Schmentley!  (Read 17833 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

M-dub

  • Guest
Bentley, Schmentley!
« on: June 09, 2008, 04:28:44 PM »
So here's a story for ya.

We have two seats of Microstation.  They're old, as you can tell from my signature.  My boss asked me to get a quote to upgrade one of them.

Turns out you can't.  Well, you can, but you'll have to "surrender" the other seat.  Apparently, the only alternative is to upgrade both.  This, among a bunch of other things has me itching to send this quote back, requesting that he file it where the sun doesn't shine.... and that's not just to protect the inks from harmful UV light!

Also, is it true that they (Bentley) handles all of their own sales and have no registered resellers?

Guest

  • Guest
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2008, 04:32:42 PM »
<embed source="../Bentley/WhoCares/crickets.wav">



 :roll:

Mark

  • Custom Title
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 28762
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2008, 04:32:48 PM »
can you just buy two new seats? hey it's only money! and besides, you'll be supporting poor ol' bentley. :)
TheSwamp.org  (serving the CAD community since 2003)

M-dub

  • Guest
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 04:43:24 PM »
<embed source="../Bentley/WhoCares/crickets.wav">



 :roll:

Alright, wiseguy... who asked you?  Because they should be fired!


can you just buy two new seats? hey it's only money! and besides, you'll be supporting poor ol' bentley. :)


You'd think, wouldn't you?

Well, here's the thing; One of the bosses here, thought it was a great idea to opt out of Select (subscription for the 'deskers) so we now have these awesome "Back-Fees" of $940 per year / per license.  At least they stopped calling them "Welcome Back Fees" and I'm not kidding!  The quote I received back in February or maybe it was sometime last year... they called these things "Welcome Back Fees"... It's like punishing people for being return customers!!!

Anyway, they opted out of Select about 8 or 9 years ago and Bentley has done us the 'favour' of reducing it down to 4 years worth of back-fees.  This equates to $3,760 plus the fee of $940 for THIS year.  If we wanted to upgrade BOTH seats, we just double that.  If we buy them brand spanking new, one seat of "Vanilla Microstation" is over $6,100, so we wouldn't save anything...

I used to be SO pro-upgrade it made me sick.  Now, I would love just to tell them NO just to spite them.  One of their selling features is Backwards Compatibility!  We shouldn't have to upgrade for a long time! :laugh:

Maverick®

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 14778
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2008, 04:46:07 PM »
Tell 'em to ......














.....wait for it......













"Get Bent"

M-dub

  • Guest
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 04:46:29 PM »
Too bad his name isn't Lee!

mjfarrell

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 14444
  • Every Student their own Lesson
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 04:53:13 PM »
<embed source="../Bentley/WhoCares/crickets.wav">



 :roll:

Alright, wiseguy... who asked you? Because they should be fired!


can you just buy two new seats? hey it's only money! and besides, you'll be supporting poor ol' bentley. :)


You'd think, wouldn't you?

Well, here's the thing; One of the bosses here, thought it was a great idea to opt out of Select (subscription for the 'deskers) so we now have these awesome "Back-Fees" of $940 per year / per license.  At least they stopped calling them "Welcome Back Fees" and I'm not kidding!  The quote I received back in February or maybe it was sometime last year... they called these things "Welcome Back Fees"... It's like punishing people for being return customers!!!

Anyway, they opted out of Select about 8 or 9 years ago and Bentley has done us the 'favour' of reducing it down to 4 years worth of back-fees.  This equates to $3,760 plus the fee of $940 for THIS year.  If we wanted to upgrade BOTH seats, we just double that.  If we buy them brand spanking new, one seat of "Vanilla Microstation" is over $6,100, so we wouldn't save anything...

I used to be SO pro-upgrade it made me sick.  Now, I would love just to tell them NO just to spite them.  One of their selling features is Backwards Compatibility!  We shouldn't have to upgrade for a long time! :laugh:

Exactly the reason the for years I've been barking about customers just saying NO to subscription from any source. You almost get the impression that they feel entitled to your money just because you have the product. The Welcome Back fees are indeed a laugh, as they are essentially back charging you for using the old product that you've already paid for. However because you opted out of the Select program they did not get their rent on the product for those years, and boy do you OWE them for that.

Every software user outthere, needs to just say NO, no new product, no new subscription, NO.
I'm willing to wager less than 6 months the forced subscription system would end. As well as the crappy release every year that goes along with.

To those that say it will cost more, great IF the product works as advertised, and is forward and backward com patable perfect. It can not cost more than paying for software you do not install or that fails to function as advertised.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Keith™

  • Villiage Idiot
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 16899
  • Superior Stupidity at its best
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 05:03:41 PM »
Having been on the marketing side of software sales, let me give you a tidbit of information to consider ...
Lets say you have several clients, one upgrades at every upgrade cycle and pays a reduced rate per seat, another client upgrades every other cycle, and yet another upgrades only occasionally, whenever it is beneficial to them.

The way I see it is if you allow an occasional upgrader to upgrade without paying the same fees as the always upgrader, you risk losing business from the always upgraders. This is a fine line that is walked every day by software developers.

Some of the software I have out, is upgraded absolutely free at every upgrade cycle, so long as they maintain a support contract. If the support contract lapses, they pay the upgrade fee from the version they have for every version, up to the full retail of the current version. If this offends their sensabilities, they they are free to seek software elsewhere. I am not here to provide their business with software at a cheap rate. I am here to make a living.
Proud provider of opinion and arrogance since November 22, 2003 at 09:35:31 am
CadJockey Militia Field Marshal

Find me on https://parler.com @kblackie

jonesy

  • SuperMod
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 15568
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 05:06:04 PM »
Mike, cant you just buy 1 new seat, and carry on using the older versions? (or does that not fit into the "Bentley Way")
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

mjfarrell

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 14444
  • Every Student their own Lesson
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 05:11:38 PM »
Having been on the marketing side of software sales, let me give you a tidbit of information to consider ...
Lets say you have several clients, one upgrades at every upgrade cycle and pays a reduced rate per seat, another client upgrades every other cycle, and yet another upgrades only occasionally, whenever it is beneficial to them.

The way I see it is if you allow an occasional upgrader to upgrade without paying the same fees as the always upgrader, you risk losing business from the always upgraders. This is a fine line that is walked every day by software developers.

Some of the software I have out, is upgraded absolutely free at every upgrade cycle, so long as they maintain a support contract. If the support contract lapses, they pay the upgrade fee from the version they have for every version, up to the full retail of the current version. If this offends their sensabilities, they they are free to seek software elsewhere. I am not here to provide their business with software at a cheap rate. I am here to make a living.

Don't punish anyone for upgrading, i.e. come up with a model that makes sense without offending your customers either way. Price the product for what it is worth. Price the support for what it worth. Don't force a subscription on anyone otherwide you have created the scenario described, and it does offend the customer.

Time for a shift in the business model....just because that is the way you do it, or it has been done, does not make it right, or the way it should be done.  

Time for some creative thinking.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Greg B

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 12417
  • Tell me a Joke!
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2008, 05:22:07 PM »
So you pay a subscription fee so when the next big version release comes out you get it free?

Arch_Eric

  • Guest
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2008, 05:52:09 PM »
I used to work in manufacturing where I used CabinetVision Solid. (If you haven't seen it, it's like dynamic blocks on steroids) They had a $500/yr "support" fee. Problem was, they had no support. Supposedly, while I used it, there was an uprising and nearly all their support team quit. And when you called with a problem, they usually blamed it on your computer ("Well, it works on our end."). The support fee was supposed to include all minor versions that they would mail out for free. We received maybe 2 minor updates over 5 years.

I guess where I'm going with this is, support fees suck when the company sucks.

Krushert

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 13679
  • FREE BEER Tomorrow!!
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2008, 05:59:03 PM »
I understand Keith's point of making a living, but the feeling of being strong arm into and to continue to be in situation is what has sort of left a bad taste for us.  It sort of feels like extortion.
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here picking up the empties beer cans

mjfarrell

  • Seagull
  • Posts: 14444
  • Every Student their own Lesson
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008, 07:28:57 PM »
Trust the 'support' from autodesk is virtually non existant. Also in the years since 'subscription' came out, on the civil side we have seen at best ONE 'extention' to the product each year. Now last year was different because they bought Inteli-solve and issued TWO extensions that were really only ONE that they shipped in two pieces.

Subscription is a scam to generate revenue stream period. It is not for or about serving the customer.
Make the product better, give us compelling new tools and features that actually function and we will buy the product without being forced into it. Make the product better and there will not be a need for strongarming the customer into the purchase, in fact we will be begging for it at any price,if you make the product better.
Stop putting it in a shiny new wrapper, and or changing the file format and telling us that it's new.
The new interface costs productivity, and the format change is just a tool to force users to upgrade because autodesk can't or wont design the product to be fully compatible with itself.

Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Keith™

  • Villiage Idiot
  • Seagull
  • Posts: 16899
  • Superior Stupidity at its best
Re: Bentley, Schmentley!
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM »
Trust the 'support' from autodesk is virtually non existant. Also in the years since 'subscription' came out, on the civil side we have seen at best ONE 'extention' to the product each year. Now last year was different because they bought Inteli-solve and issued TWO extensions that were really only ONE that they shipped in two pieces.

Subscription is a scam to generate revenue stream period. It is not for or about serving the customer.
Make the product better, give us compelling new tools and features that actually function and we will buy the product without being forced into it. Make the product better and there will not be a need for strongarming the customer into the purchase, in fact we will be begging for it at any price,if you make the product better.
Stop putting it in a shiny new wrapper, and or changing the file format and telling us that it's new.
The new interface costs productivity, and the format change is just a tool to force users to upgrade because autodesk can't or wont design the product to be fully compatible with itself.

You are correct ... subscription is all about generating a revenue stream. That is how we approach it, that is how many other companies approach it.

I suppose I could follow the lead of a few developers I know ... the software costs a certain amount of money, regardless. If you have V3 and you want V4, you pay the same as the guy who doesn't have V3. But then that wouldn't be considered fair practice either.

We have asked hundreds of clients what they felt would be the best method for them to have software provided. Many of them prefer subscription because in the long run it tends to be less expensive and they are always using the latest version. I suppose on the flip side is whether or not the client prefers to pay a little each year as opposed to a lump sum every few years. Many find the annual payments to be better and easier on the bottom line than a lump sum payment.

But then, if you were tasked to create a business model that protected the financial interests of a software vendor, while providing a useful product at a reasonable price, what would you do ... because we spent many days and weeks through trial and error to come up with a pricing scheme that we believe is fair, and according to many of our clients, fair to our clients.

The bottom line is that software is a tool that helps you do your job. Without it, you could likely still do it, albeit at a much slower pace. Thus the software makes you more productive. It is the ROI that you must look at to determine the value you are receiving. In the case of our software, the client has can have a 100% ROI after using the package just once.
Proud provider of opinion and arrogance since November 22, 2003 at 09:35:31 am
CadJockey Militia Field Marshal

Find me on https://parler.com @kblackie