Author Topic: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections  (Read 11136 times)

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scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2008, 11:15:35 PM »
Another consideration, with the style solution the ellipse will not show unless the alignments cross and with storm sewers I would never have this condition because the pipe runs needed to go wall to wall rather than meet at the center. 

This is true. Since profiles are a function of the alignment definition, the pipe does have to cross the alignment in question in order to show up on the profile view.

I am trying to picture your storm sewer issue... pipe runs wall to wall... do you have a skematic? I have some ideas but I am not sure they make sense.

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2008, 11:17:48 PM »
He has a whole thread title C3D it just doesn't add up.  Go read all that, it will put you to sleep, or make you too mad to sleep when you 'get' the problems that exist in PIPES that are far from being addressed.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2008, 11:18:36 PM »
And I still think using a Section view is the most direct method for the user in this case, as pipes will draw themselves correctly in the section with out the caveat Dino mentions, or need to override the pipe style.

I guess I have always seen it in the context that the user already had a profile view drawn with their other pipes and labels and such, so it was fewer steps to quickly add and override the pipe.

I agree though that the section pipe crossing tools (and labeling for that matter) are a lot more user friendly than profile. At least in 2008. There might be some improvements i havent discovered in 2009, but I don't think so.

Cool beans. Lots to be learned tonight.

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2008, 11:36:35 PM »
I could dig you out a screen capture, but it may take longer than I have reserves remaining after today to get one for you - perhaps tomorrow.  Actually the missing ellipse is the least of my concerns with the storm pipe issue.  I can keep drawing one manually for no more than it is an issue.  The more annoying problem is the tendency for the pipes I draw from inside face to inside face to revert to meeting at the center of structure without provocation or ceremony.  If the pipe display is regenerated they just revert and I have to change all affected by grip edit lest my lengths, slopes and pipe bearings turn into so much fiction.  Another problem that is an outright defect in the program is the pipe lengths and bearings being reported incorrectly UNLESS I take the extra steps required described when the pipes must run IF to IF of structure.  The programs seems to calculate the distance wall to wall at the bearing derived by center to center of structure rather than mid points on the walls.  The distance is close, but throws the slope calculation off and because of the bearing issue, I do not trust any of the interference checks or crossings for these runs.  I know the issue was brought to the programmer's attention last summer, but 2009 still has the problem with the pipe ends instability so I doubt if the slope and bearing issues were addressed either.

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2008, 11:41:32 PM »
My understanding is and was that NOTHING for pipes was to be addressed with the 2009 release.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2008, 11:46:05 PM »
That was my thinking after the first test flight although I think there may be the capability of joining pipe networks now.  I just didn't have the heart to look much further when I saw my pipe ends snap back to center the first time I forced the issue.

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2008, 01:07:13 PM »
. . .
I am trying to picture your storm sewer issue... pipe runs wall to wall... do you have a skematic? I have some ideas but I am not sure they make sense.
The best way I can relay my problem is to give you the whole picture.  I have a 12.6 mb ETransmit zip file with the drawing zoomed in to an area with some pipes correct and others obviously wrong.  I can post a link to my lily pad or I can send you a link to download via the SwampExpress if you can provide an address for the linkage to work.

scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2008, 12:53:33 AM »
The best way I can relay my problem is to give you the whole picture.  I have a 12.6 mb ETransmit zip file with the drawing zoomed in to an area with some pipes correct and others obviously wrong.  I can post a link to my lily pad or I can send you a link to download via the SwampExpress if you can provide an address for the linkage to work.

try my gmail. Not sure when I will have a chance to dig into it, but I would like to try. dana dot probert at gmail dot com

scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2008, 09:41:16 PM »
Dino-

I've learned that while you can snap pipes to the outside of structure manually, like you have been doing, having the rules running kicks them back to CL of structure. SInce all invert adjusting rules are based on the CL of structure... you get the idea. I've asked about how to change the rule set. more to come...

Dana

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2008, 10:19:12 PM »
Dino-

I've learned that while you can snap pipes to the outside of structure manually, like you have been doing, having the rules running kicks them back to CL of structure. SInce all invert adjusting rules are based on the CL of structure... you get the idea. I've asked about how to change the rule set. more to come...

Dana
Excellent . . . it is good to know that at least there is a reason for the behavior . . . and with that knowledge, there is at least hope for a solution.  Thank you Dana

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2008, 10:33:15 AM »
Yes, it sounds like you would need turn OFF the rules for your end pipes, and see if they do NOT adjust as desired.  Run a test or two and let us know. 
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2008, 11:03:28 AM »
Excellent . . . it is good to know that at least there is a reason for the behavior . . . and with that knowledge, there is at least hope for a solution.  Thank you Dana

There is more to it. Disabling the rules will apparently get you halfway there, but there is a programming element involved that snaps pipes to the center upon a structure move. The gentleman I have been talking to on the subject says that it might be possible to change the reactor, but it is outside of the realm of the rules. More to come...

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2008, 11:09:31 AM »
Yes, I have already discovered that there is nothing in the rule set available to set or change that would appear to be the problem.  I found the pointer to the dvb file controlling the rules but I don't even know enough about changing something there to be dangerous - it would instead likely be devastating

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2008, 11:18:42 AM »
The suggested thing to try is to click on the pipe connected to the structure the way you like it, and go to the the Pipe Properties (rt-click) and I'm pretty sure you can turn the rules OFF, or change the rule set being applied to ONLY that pipe in the run.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2008, 11:43:32 AM »
The current rule set seems to have no effect on this whether I apply the rules or set an over ride to remove the rules.  I think Dana is saying that this is a rules issue within the programming and not accessible to the users.  I think you have seen this data when I first brought it to your attention last year, but I can put the ETransmit file up for you on SwampExpress to look at again if you are curious.