Author Topic: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections  (Read 11146 times)

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spittle

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Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« on: May 12, 2008, 05:43:30 AM »
I have drawn an alignment for a pipe network and have created a long section. There are various pipes that the long section crosses over. I have inserted a pipe from the network catalogue on each of these pipes that the alignment passes over. Now the plan was to hit 'show on profile' to display where the pipe alignment crosses another pipe. Unfotunately rather than displaying a cross section (so a circle or eliptical cross section of the pipes) it has drawn the whole pipe, which is wrong.

Any ideas?

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2008, 08:14:08 AM »
What you want to do is go to your Edit your sample line group.
You will look for the SECTIONS TAB and select sample MORE sources...
Here you will select your pipe(s) networks that you want shown in your section views created from your sample line group in the Left panel, and use the Add source to add it into the data displayed in your sections. The pipes will then appear as you have them defined and styled for sections, as defined in the parts list.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

spittle

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2008, 10:30:01 AM »
I'm not understanding your explanation, sorry I'm fairly new to Civils.
I've attached an example just incase I wasn't clear in my explantion.

The first image shows the plan, I've quickly put a pipe in and set a rough invert level for both ends of the pipe so it's within range to show up on my long section.

The second image is showing my long section which I'm drawing some 2D fittings on top. You can see the circle which is indicating where the alignment passes the pipe and you can see the pipe from where I've select to show part in profile view.


mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2008, 10:40:01 AM »
Spittle,

At this point we may have reached the limits of WEB based support.
Please send me a Private Message or Email, I will happily call you and talk you through this process.
As it is my great pleasure to be of assistance, and would like to limit your frustration on this.

It appears that the issue is your pipes are NOT perfectly perpendicular to your alignment. As they are oblique to the alignment you may need a work around to display only the ellipse of the crossing pipes in your 'long section', which I suspect is actually a profile, (profile view).
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2008, 10:23:39 AM »
The challenge here is that the user has crated a PROFILE and wants to Draw a grossing pipe in that PROFILE using a Section Style Ellippse.  In short this will need to be done manually if all you want is the ellipse in PROFILE.  However IF the user were to create a Section View The pipes would be drawn more like the user desires.

Why? Because C3D wants to draw complte pipes in PROFILE VIEW and only graphical ellipses in a SECTION VIEW.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2008, 10:58:24 AM »
The user will want to define an alignment for this purpose, nearly perpendicular to the Junction structure where the pipes deflect. Then create a Sample Line group, along that alignment, with a Section only at the pipe station, center of junction structure. Then the user will grip edit the Sample lines to extent the length of the pipes, and follow their deflection through the box.  When the user draws the Section view for this sample line be sure to include the other pipe run as a sampled source, and then the pipe will display as an ellipse in the section view.
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Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 01:01:13 PM »
I think you should be able to get the ellipse to display without that much trouble.  You first need to create a pipe style that only has the profile crossing component set to be visible.  Then you can set that style as an override for that pipe in the profile view that it is to be seen as a tributary.  The long funky pipe will change in that view only to an ellipse.  Please note that occasionally this method will give a very unusual looking ellipse that is wider than tall.

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 01:32:38 PM »
Yes, the challenge is Plan, Profile, Section VIEW styles. I have seen the data (cheating) and believe the best method is a Section View, not a Profile View.  The Profile Style allows NOT for drawing only an ellipse, this is the realm of the Section View Style component.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 09:56:18 PM »
Yes, the challenge is Plan, Profile, Section VIEW styles. I have seen the data (cheating) and believe the best method is a Section View, not a Profile View.  The Profile Style allows NOT for drawing only an ellipse, this is the realm of the Section View Style component.

Not sure I understand. You can create a pipe profile style that shows ellipse only.

Does this particular pipe cross the aligment at such a skew that an ellipse will not be shown properly?

And I don't know if the user filled you in, but Long Section = Profile in a lot of former British Empire countries.

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 10:22:11 PM »
I would like to see a profile style that is ONLY an ellipse. Please post a drawing with one in it or tell us how to set it up.
In my Pipe Styles (profiles tab) I get Lines, and hatching settings, nothing for a block (ellipse). Those appear to be only available on the Section tab of the pipe style editor.

Yes, got the language, and the pipe is fairly oblique to the pipe run. This why I suggested using a Section View, as well. Perhaps your description of Pipes as ellipses in profiles style will illuminate.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 10:40:41 PM »
I would like to see a profile style that is ONLY an ellipse. Please post a drawing with one in it or tell us how to set it up.
In my Pipe Styles (profiles tab) I get Lines, and hatching settings, nothing for a block (ellipse). Those appear to be only available on the Section tab of the pipe style editor.

I definitely do think that I am misunderstanding you...and I want to learn more. There is something fundamental here that I am not getting my head around. The styles I have always made don't include the block that you mention (and I cannot find how to add the block you mention in section, can you post a screen cap? I only have 2009 on this machine and maybe the UI is different.)

What I meant was that you can make a style that turns on Profile Crossing Pipe Inside Walls and Crossing Pipe Outside walls and turn everything else off.

If the pipe crosses at a skew, the resulting crossing will not be shown as a true ellipse, but distorted to reflect the true "slice". Like a tubular noodle in a casserole that is cut on an angle.


mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2008, 10:50:59 PM »
No I think you understand me.

however in looking at your question has given me an idea(s) for a Different perhaps Better solution.


Firstly, in Pipe Styles one can control what lines and or hatching is shown In PLAN, and PROFILE.
One can also control the Section Style of the pipe.  The confusion is my fault, by including a structure style element, as one can NOT insert a block in a pipe style, one CAN insert a block as a Structure.

The user could insert a structure, that uses a block (ellipse) at the pipe crossing.

OR

The user could create an Interference Style that will place a Circle (I know, not an ellipse) in the Profile View.


I still think the Section View method will produce the desired results with less user input.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/

scout

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2008, 10:54:16 PM »
Do you know about this procedure?

Its kinda old, so forgive the sceen caps, but its identical in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/2006/06/civil-3d-nuts-and-bolts-showing-and.html

Dinosaur

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2008, 11:05:56 PM »
Yes, this is the same procedure I attempted to describe and it does still work albeit with the occasional pipe that displays as round or even flattened and wider than the structure.  This is quite annoying and if Michael's block selection works better, I would switch over in a minute.  Another consideration, with the style solution the ellipse will not show unless the alignments cross and with storm sewers I would never have this condition because the pipe runs needed to go wall to wall rather than meet at the center.  If a block could be forced as part of the structure definition perhaps those missing ellipses would reappear.

mjfarrell

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Re: Showing pipe cross overs on long sections
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2008, 11:14:09 PM »
Sorry Dino, that block option is an either OR, so unless you want to place TWO structures, and I know you don't that option is no solution for you.

And I still think using a Section view is the most direct method for the user in this case, as pipes will draw themselves correctly in the section with out the caveat Dino mentions, or need to override the pipe style.
Be your Best


Michael Farrell
http://primeservicesglobal.com/