Topic: Need Architectural Program Advice

[Josh Nieman]

^^WELL said!  *claps*

I have to say, what my limited experience is... I am an avid Autodesk user, whether it be Inventor, Autocad, Impression... whatever... but Softplan seems to be absolutely amazing for your niche.

I can't speak on the system requirements for the program personally, but all software in this world is well documented as to what hardware is recommended.  Autocad even breaks it down to "if you do 2D use this:" and "If 3D you need these:"

Just remember... minimum system requirements... is written by salesmen... when they say minimum... THEY MEAN IT!!  I'm not saying DOUBLE everything, but once you get on your feet full speed you may be wishing the system could keep up with YOU at some points, but that may be far enough down the line that you can afford upgrades from budget.

Autocad LT is nice, but if you're someone who's internet savvy (you made it here, didn't you?) then you may want to take advantage of the customizations that LT does not allow you to use such as the myriad programming solutions many folks around here have written or passed on.  Customization is a big thing and at some point you'll be wanting it.

Especially when it comes to typical details and repetitive drawing tasks.

Sorry that there isn't a price-vs-benefit comparison chart that I know of (never know unless you ask, of course) but rather just myraid often-conflicting but hopefully informative opinions.

[Greg B]

For your Niche - Softplan or Chief Architect is the way to go.  I've used Softplan and it's fairly easy to learn for anyone.

I do want to through DataCAD out there again as well.  It's powerful and allows you to start in the 2d or 3d realm.  It's getting smarter with the introduction to smart walls and doors and windows.  It's easy to learn and was originally designed as if you were coming straight off a drawing board.

Just want to reiterate that in your line of work I still believe SoftPlan is the best choice.

[Antisthenes]

I've only been here less than a week to make such broad sweeping generalizations will only lead you to trouble me thinks

i challenge what you have said as incorrect and slightly vanguard of the old way, reminiscent of Billary's rocky moment.  

always looking to help because of our altruistic nature leads up to competing methods and tools, and this is a good thing to so we can have the fair fight that needs to happy

just keep it clean is all i ask because mis representation based on limited knowledge or bias on anybodies part is not helpful to any i feel.



best worst, blaa different    and always changing in a field that gets more dynamic by the day

[Josh Nieman]

I've only been here less than a week....

Name:     Antisthenes
Posts:    139 (0.329 per day)
Date Registered:    February 03, 2007, 03:46:44 pm

[Antisthenes]

of posting... since about a year ago

i feel a friendly welcoming atmosphere,

high five guys! 

[Maverick®]

*whifff*


 

[Bob Wahr]

He's been here less than a week, this week, Josh.


Thomas,

I'm coming into this late.  First off, welcome to the Swamp.  Secondly, sorry about the pissing match you've had to read through.  I think Raff's point on stating off doing line drawings and thinking of it as board drafting on the screen, is probably one of the better pieces of advice in the thread.  Personally, I like Autodesk products of the different drafting packages that I have experience with.  I can understand you not wanting to dive into a full license of AutoCAD from the start.  AutoCAD LT is as solid a program as AutoCAD but doesn't allow for as much customization.  I think in your case, I would probably suggest Intellicad.  Intellicad is an AutoCAD clone for the most part and as such is very similar.  This will let you in at a low price and allow you to get your feet wet.  It will also allow you to see what advantages there are to customization, after you get more comfortable.  If you find custom programs to be beneficial, and you will, I would advise you to look into getting a full license of AutoCAD.

I also agree that Rhino is absolutely not what you want, based on what you've laid out as your needs.  Revit, or other BIM software would be more complex to start in but you would find benefits once you beat the learning curve.  Several years ago, I did a demo of softplan and while it doesn't meet my needs, it does a good job at what it does.  I don't have any experience with DataCAD, but I've heard that it's so easy, a trained monkey could use it

One final piece of advice, if there is one available, take an evening class at a local community college.  It will give you a good start in a semester.

Last thought overall, whoever used the chile analogy is way off base.  He is from New Mexico, Red and Green Chile aren't competing dishes there.  Red is used in many sauces, marinades, rubs, soups, etc.  Green chile is just a fact of life.  Where in NM are you, anyway?

[Bob Wahr]

Just occurred to me that I didn't address your hardware question.  All you really need to do is buy a computer and put some extra RAM in it.  Any modern computer will do as well as any other for basic CAD for the most part.  Get the largest monitor that you can afford without feeling like you're going to puke.  The larger the monitor, the happier you are.  The plus side of that equation though is that whatever monitor you have is fine.  It's not until you use a larger one that you find out that you were unhappy.

[Greg B]

I don't have any experience with DataCAD, but I've heard that it's so easy, a trained monkey could use it

Sounds like the best reason to start with DataCAD.   

[rionada]

Now we're talkin'

Thank you , Thank you, Thank you,...

No offence intended to anyone, here is what I'm starting to think makes sense for me:

Intellicad.

Here's why - correct me if I'm wrong:
I plan to start off in 2d (following the advice that makes the most sense to me - relating drafting to cad)
It is an Autocad clone, so if I decide to switch at some later date - it shouldn't be too difficult.
It offers more customization than Autocad Lt.
It's well supported.
There are lots of BIMS available. (and here I assume that BIMS are like stock detail drawings?)
There is no yearly licensing fee.
The initial cost is reasonable.

Question: Intellicad gets used in a generic sense. There appear to be many forms of Intellicad. Which program makes the most sense for me and why? (O.K. - it was two statements and a question).

Where do I find the BIMS that I need? (which, in many cases, will be standard residential details)

Thank You to everyone - this is all enlightening for me, whether I go with your suggestions or not - keep 'em coming.

Thomas

[Strucmad]

Thomas,
BIM stands for Building Information Model...Its basically a smart drawing that knows this is a wall, rafter, bolt, sink
You generall build a BIM as you go..I'ts a Term use for the type of drawing the new generation of software, Revit..etc, creates.

I think what your after is a BLOCK, - standard detail used to import into any drawing (no intelligenece, just linework representing an object)
Cheers Paul.

[architecture68-raff]

Sounds pretty good except your understanding of BIM....

Think of BIM products as those which are centered on building a model of the house you are drawing.  From that model, you will then generate elevations, floor plans, etc.  Generally, you will not be drawing individual lines, but rather walls, windows, doors, and other intelligent objects that make up your design.  At least that is the theory behind BIM products - the extent you actually use all of those features varies from firm to firm and project to project.

Products like plain-old vanilla Autocad, Autocad LT, or plain-jane Intellicads (non BIM) will work similar to you are used to - walls will be drawn as individual lines, elevations will be drawn separate from floor plans, and a change in one would require manually going and fixing other drawings to update them.

As far as standard residential details go, you will likely need to draw them yourself - unless any of the dime-a-dozen libraries of details you find on ebay suit your needs.  Once they have been drawn once, it is easy to keep them in your own library and reuse or modify them as needed.  Also, depending on what you are detailing, most of the significant manufacturers in the industry make CAD files of their products available to architects and designers.

I will defer to someone more knowledable on the Intellicads and their optional verticals to make a specific recommendation...

**edit: Sorry PS_Port, didn't mean to step on you there.  Beat me by 17 seconds

[Dinosaur]

One point of clarification, BIM refers to building information modeling, a new method of tying all sorts of information to various elements in a model and is featured in programs like Revit and other 3D modeling software.  What you are needing to get started with are blocks which are simply drawings of something like a door, window, a symbol, a titleblock or something more complex like a room layout or a standard detail.  These are inserted into your drawing and can be moved, rotated, scaled or even mirrored as one entity.  They can be copied multiple times in one drawing and if it needs to be revised, it can be edited and redefined with the changes being instantly applied to every instance of the block.  There is or was a block repository here in TheSwamp.  I can not find a link to it just now but will try again later.  If I recall correctly, Intellicad will also come with a selection of blocks to get started with.  There are also some collections assembled by other members that have generously been made available to all.

The rest of your interpretation of all of the input you have received seems to be spot on.  If you decide to upgrade to a new release, you will be nailed for an upgrade fee, but there is generally no need to upgrade unless it solves some problem you have with the current program or promises a new feature you really want to have.  Once purchased, it is yours to use as long as you wish.

There is one thing to think about that has not been touched upon yet - how to get hard copies generated.  Sooner or later, someone is going to need your brilliant new plans on real physical paper.  A little printer just won't do if you have plans on C or D size sheets.  A plotter would do the trick, but they are expensive to buy and worse to maintain.  Supplies can really eat up your profits fast, especially when you are trying to figure out how to use the thing.  Unless you can find a great deal on a used one, it may make more sense to work with a local vendor to create paper copies of your files.  A friendly engineering shop or reprographics store would be good candidates, even a Kinkos store may have what you need.

Good luck, it looks like you have a good start at a grand adventure!

Well . . . some others have made some of this redundant . . . so be it, I will let mine stand as written

[architecture68-raff]

Also, one more piece of advice as you set out....make sure you have the fundamentals of CAD drafting down before you delve in to your first project.  For instance, make sure you understand that all of your drawings will be created at a 1:1 scale (i.e. a 8'-0" long wall will be drawn 8'-0" long) - no architect's scales needed from here on out.  You will then use one of a variety of different techniques to put your working drawings out at the scale needed (1/4", 1/2", whatever).

Forgive me if I'm drastically underestimating your knowledge...you'd be surprised how confused I've seen others when they took the leap.   

A place like the CADTutor.net Autocad tutorial page should get you up and running on most of what you need to know.  They have some good tutorials there that cover most of a beginner's needs.  Most (if not all) of the tutorials there will be directly applicable to an Intellicad clone since they are so similar.

Best regards and good luck

[Dinosaur]

Again I missed part of your question . . . I would lean toward the Projecad or Bricscad products, but only because I know their are optional vertical applications marketed with their core engine.  I know that Bricscad is specified as an optional CAD engine for running EaglePoint (a very powerful Civil Engineering package).  Whichever flavor you decide to try, just avoid the "LT" offering that is usually offered at no cost or for a limited time.  These will most likely not be able to use the customizations similar to AutoCAD LT.