Author Topic: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?  (Read 10526 times)

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Josh Nieman

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How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« on: February 28, 2008, 09:48:13 AM »
I mean this in two ways.

1)

My company's name is C.A.S.E., Inc. which stands for Civil And Structural Engineers, Inc (give them a break, they left their original company and started this one over a weekend) and we do mainly structural work of a variety... tower crane foundations, communication tower design, miscellaneous skids, containers, spreader bars, foundations of all kinds, sound wall framing, retaining walls etc etc... random occasional civil/site work, and a good deal of building developments ranging from Commercial, Multi-story residential, Industrial/Factory, and miscellaneous offshore-serving onshore facilities.

My concern is that if we buy Revit Structure, we'd have nothing to help us with the architectural development.  We wouldn't reap the benefits of BIM in regards to building design for our industrial, commercial, condo type buildings.  My concern is also that if we get Revit Architecture, that we would not be able to use it for Foundation, framing plans, detailing, etc.

If we invest in a BIM program such as Revit, I am very concerned that we would have to buy BOTH of them, or rely on Autocad like we do now, for one side or the other.  I don't think we'd FULLY convert to Revit, because some of our simple, simple items such as tower crane foundations, comm tower design, etc, is so automated and quick that it would hardly be worth overhauling it.

I'm worried about our building design.  What are your opinions on this situation?

2)  If we buy Revit... well the electrical firm we work with has Building Systems... would they mesh well?  Our mechanical guy for HVAC/Plumbing uses Autocad and I doubt he'd upgrade soon, but who knows... he may have other architects or something pressuring him to upgrade.  What programs work well with Revit... just how universally BIMmable is this program?  Would we get any BIM capabilities out of it at ALL, or would it merely be used as a parametric modeler?

It's hard to find this information anywhere, because all I can find on BIM is how magical, wonderful, panacea, universal, save-all, blah blah blah sunshine-up-my-rear-end, sales lies, empty promises, blah blah blah... it's impossible to get good information.

Thanks.

Bob Garner

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2008, 10:01:58 AM »
I think Revit (B.I.M.) is really only benificial to the "team".  I can't see where it would help an individual discipline working essentially alone an a project.  I see it primarily as a team coordination tool.  Someone said the only person that really benifits from B.I.M. is the owner, who gets a better (ideally) coordinated project.

We're structural, too, and with the subconsultants we seem to wind up with, they could never handle B.I.M.  Hell, we can't get their conventional cad drawings on time.

But I like the principle of B.I.M.  I think it will be ten years before we get a truly functional and useful B.I.M. product.  Yeah, it's all smoke and mirrors now.

Bob G.

Bob Wahr

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2008, 10:21:40 AM »
Get Revit Structure Suite, not just Revit Structure.  That gets you autocad and RS for about the same price as one.  Get Revit Structure, not Revit Architectural, you can do more architectural with Structure than you can do Structural with Architecture.  Your model should integrate fine with the EE, but so what.  How often do you even look at electrical when doing structural design.  With rare exceptions, electrical is light, flexible, and can go wherever it will fit.  Then again, then don't really need to look at structural to put big floopy arcs in the general vicinity of where they think they might want conduit.  Revit Structure is supposed to recognize ADT objects and use them.  I've seen that demoed but haven't tried it myself.  It is also supposed to be fairly easy to give intelligence to a 2d acad floor plan but again, demoed not tested.  Getting the Suite gives you both programs so you can do different projects with different programs, or different elements of a project with different programs.  For example, we have a fairly extensive detail library so the best use of our time and project budget is to detail in autocad, then bring the details into Revit for use in the sheets.

Josh Nieman

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 10:24:12 AM »
Oh yea, I forgot you have to get the "Suite" to get Autocad with it... yea we'd definitely go that route... well worth the little extra dollars.

I'm just worried because we've started to do some extensive architectural... I mean building sections, construction details, sill/jamb/header details, all that stuff... I don't have an extensive library for that type of stuff yet... how much architectural CAN Structure do?

Guest

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 10:34:42 AM »
This is probably why Autodesk purchased Navisworks - take multiple file types, throw them into one program and see where your issues are.  Navisworks can spit out a collision report for you so you can see where a beam intersects with your ductwork or pipe.

You can export from Revit to DWG and import a DWG into Revit, but you won't get the reporting/collision detection tools in AutoCAD or Revit like you can with Navisworks!

Josh Nieman

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 10:39:45 AM »
Yea I saw that they bought Navisworks and thought that was great news.  I don't see us going to BIM immediately, but I sure as heck want to keep my finger on the pulse, because I think it's a great tool. 

Bob Wahr

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 10:41:41 AM »
You can pretty much do whatever architectural you need to with the right families, AFAIK.

Matt, Revit will do collision detection and reporting.

Josh Nieman

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2008, 11:15:18 AM »
You can pretty much do whatever architectural you need to with the right families, AFAIK.

Matt, Revit will do collision detection and reporting.

I can create a wall with 6" wood studs, 16" o.c., R19 Batt insulation, with CDX/Plywood sheathing, brick ties, a 2" air gap, and brick veneer and then show sections, details, etc?

If so... sweeeeeet.  That's probably the most demanding of my needs.

Bob Wahr

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2008, 11:46:48 AM »
this was just a quicky but 6" wood studs ply sheathing 2" air and brick in section

Guest

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2008, 11:47:19 AM »
You can pretty much do whatever architectural you need to with the right families, AFAIK.

Matt, Revit will do collision detection and reporting.

Oh, I know it can... It's my understanding (from what I've been shown and told) that the reporting and detection in Navisworks is much better than that of Revit.  That's all I was trying to say.

Maverick®

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2008, 12:02:06 PM »
I can create a wall with 6" wood studs, 16" o.c., R19 Batt insulation, with CDX/Plywood sheathing, brick ties, a 2" air gap, and brick veneer and then show sections, details, etc?

:-D

Josh Nieman

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2008, 12:02:50 PM »
Bob, you're awesome.  Thanks much.

I think when the new release of Revit Structure comes out, I may download a demo and see if I can get it to work.  That or I'll just put it on the extra machine and play on that one.

Josh Nieman

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2008, 12:05:49 PM »
I can create a wall with 6" wood studs, 16" o.c., R19 Batt insulation, with CDX/Plywood sheathing, brick ties, a 2" air gap, and brick veneer and then show sections, details, etc?
:-D

Nice!

I've seen Softplan in it's earlier days (I think earlier... around 2002-2003) and it was really impressive then, and I was checking out their website and such after seeing some of the stuff you'd posted... man that's a cool program.

But can you do a corrogated metal SIP deck with 6" concrete floor 12'-0" AFF, over 12k3 metal joists anchored in a 12" CMU 2-hour rated fire wall within a typical pre-engineered metal building with batt insulation, 8" girts, 8" purlins, and "R" Panel sheeting?

Maverick®

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2008, 12:15:24 PM »

But can you do a corrogated metal SIP deck with 6" concrete floor 12'-0" AFF, over 12k3 metal joists anchored in a 12" CMU 2-hour rated fire wall within a typical pre-engineered metal building with batt insulation, 8" girts, 8" purlins, and "R" Panel sheeting?

I don't know what some of that is but if you give me a section I may be able to.  You cannot spec floor systems like you can walls.  I'll bet I could create a passable 3d created section view with a few work arounds though.  :wink:

I've wanted to have a look @ Revit since it came out.... how many years ago?  It was supposed to look like a fairly good competitor to SP in the residential market.   But as of yet, I haven't.

Josh Nieman

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Re: How flexible is Revit's spread across disciplines?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2008, 12:35:46 PM »
It's just a metal/concrete decking system.  Formed metal (just to add stiffness) with concrete poured right on top of it.  You typically weld that metal deck on top of steel joists or attach it somehow to your joists, depending on what kind of joists they are.  12k3 is just a 12" metal joist, the k3 refers to it's strength somehow.

I was mainly curious if Softplan was decent for more industrial applications like a pre-engineered metal building that has a metal/wood stud buildout on a concrete flooring.

Basically the section for that floor is:

|________________________________________|
\                        (CONCRETE)                        \
\__       __       __       __       __       __       __\
|    \__/     \__/     \__/    \__/    \__/     \__/    | <---- METAL SIP DECK (Stay In Place)


Just was on my mind because I did a site visit to one the other day to inspect some fire wall crap.