Topic: Make ALL Lines PLines?

[Josh Nieman]

I often find that CAD is in no one special.  There isn't so much a RIGHT way to do anything.  Whatever way gets the job done suitably for your scenario is best.  Now obviously the options are pretty limited in many aspects, such as there can only be so many ways to remove an oil filter... I usually wrap a rag around it twist a bar of some sort through it and then use that like a wrench, whereas other people have the fancy ring-snugging specialty wrench for that.. some people will just stab a screwdriver through the oil filter and twist it off that way.  Ok so maybe I can think of a handful of ways to do even the simplest of tasks...

[craigr]

This is getting off topic, but...

I guess what I mean by 'the right way' of doing things, is how the dwgs end up.

Believe it or not, when I run across some of our OLD dwgs, different people drew with their own versions of our title block, set up with different snaps, lineweights, scale, layers, etc...

It was HORRIBLE to get people to stop stealing parts from these OLD dwgs that were basically 'crap'.

I don't care how someone draws a square, but it better be to our standard snap, on the correct layer, on our standard title block with it's settings not changed.

Setting up these 'standards' were tough with limited knowledge of what the rest of the world does.

craigr

[Josh Nieman]

craigr, you describe pretty much the same scenario I came into.  When I came here we had actual location of standard drawings, title block, blocks, notes, specs, anything.  Whenever someone needed something and didn't know where to find it, you basically yelled through the office asking where it is, and someone would shout back a job number to look in, and you'd go and copy it.

They had a folder on the server for color tables, title blocks, and such, but it was not updated since they made it, and all the changes they made over time to their title block and color table were not saved back to the original... basically everyone had a different color table saved to their computer, and each job had a differently evolved title block.

I've made a pretty good dent in the practices here, keeping everyone copying NOT from old jobs at all, but from an independent and well maintained set of standard drawings/setups... I'm in the process of creating a block library so I can go around and slap some tool pallets on people's computers and show them what efficiency can do to their processes.  I'm excited but I wish I had more time to devote to such endevours.

Don't let it get you down... I imagine that a good percentage of what is touted around here isn't actually PRACTICED universally at that person's place of employment, but is more of an IDEAL, and a GOAL...

[deegeecees]

I've worked for companies that have "Orientation" meetings when you first arrive. They hand out their "CAD Standards" books, and go over some of the main topics. I still have a few of the major ones, ie. General Motors, Commonwealth Edison, General Electric, each book contains from 100 to 200 pages of standards call outs. I've tried incorporating the logical standards that applied to what a companies needs are, and it's no easy task. Knowing what the rest of the world does helps, but their will always be exceptions. In some cases their is a standard as to when a pline is used and how to use it. GM used to be very strict on their entity policies.

In other words, in order to create a company standard the creator MUST have an advanced knowledge of the industry and CAD/Drafting discipline they're creating the standard for, and in some cases, plines are a part of the standard.

[sinc]

Knowing what the rest of the world does helps, but their will always be exceptions. In some cases their is a standard as to when a pline is used and how to use it. GM used to be very strict on their entity policies.

From what I've seen, that's the sort of "standard" that causes more problems than it solves.  The standard becomes so thick and bloated that it becomes nearly impossible to keep up-to-date, and it the users largely start to ignore it.  The only standards that I've seen to be effective are relatively loose, dictating "big picture" things, and not details of how to perform every task.  When a standard starts doing things like dictating how and when to use a polyline, it has overstepped its usefulness and entered the realm of "bloated bureaucracy".

So far, I've found nothing as effective as taking advantage of things like templates, tool palettes, etc., to make it easier to follow the standards than to not.  And of course, the program is evolving.  The new Styles used in some of the vertical apps encapsulate much of what historically has gone into standards, except in a far more-useful manner than a book that is difficult to maintain and which people tend to ignore.

[craigr]

'in order to create a company standard the creator MUST have an advanced knowledge of the industry and CAD/Drafting discipline they're creating the standard for'

Unfortunately, the pay scale here is not high enough here to pay for someone with an advanced knowledge of AutoCad. I can't see this EVER changing.

Our CAD dwgs a pretty basic 2D & once everything is set up, the actual drawing part is pretty simple. It's 'having an advanced knowledge of the industry' (our industry) and knowing what you are drawing that for some people is the tough part.

craigr

[craigr]

than a book that is difficult to maintain and which people tend to ignore.

That is almost comical.

The last guy we hired to be a CAD Monkey, I gave him our standards book to review, (which he spent a day doing).
A couple of months later he told me he had never seen it.

He is gone now.

craigr

[deegeecees]

From what I've seen, that's the sort of "standard" that causes more problems than it solves. 

Most of these micro-managing techniques that I was speaking of, are from General Motors Electro-Motive Corp. where they NEED to have strcitly followed guidelines and have to standardize everything to the nth degree, as they are building locomotives using an extremely robust CAD package like Unigraphics, and having to do this with a revolving door for contract personnel. For a simple shop, or even a large shop using a somewhat less robust (albeit useful for the job at hand) Cad package, lets say... AutoCad, micro-managing the standards would not be impossible, but would not be efficient. I guess what my long windedness is trying to say is, I agree.

[Shinyhead]

From what I've seen, that's the sort of "standard" that causes more problems than it solves. 

... AutoCad, micro-managing the standards would not be impossible, but would not be efficient. I guess what my long windedness is trying to say is, I agree.

I completely agree with your statement.  Our philosophy is that we don't care *HOW* you draw it so long as it fits the clients standards (so they don't whine) and you do it fast and accurate enough we make money (so the owner doesn't whine).  Within that framework, I don't care if you undefine all your commands and draw with the moniter taped to the wall sideways.  Of course if you customize your own stuff, then you maintain it yourself too!  I provide over 1000 custom tools the drafter can use or ignore to thier hearts content, just don't whine if you don't use them and things go South for yourself. 

[Jeff_M]

... many things you state about plines are very false.

hmmm... such as...??

...people still draw them with widths for
everything...

Lines can be easily checked for the angle they are drawn at, plines can't.


Lines can be straightened to align with Ortho quickly with change,
plines cannot.

Hmmm, what is the angle of the pline in the following Listing of a Line and a Pline?

Select objects: 1 found, 2 total

Select objects:
                  LINE      Layer: "0"
                            Space: Model space
                   Handle = 3354
              from point, X=1052.4708  Y= 623.1223  Z=   0.0000
                to point, X=1289.4988  Y= 782.4774  Z=   0.0000
          Length = 285.6156,  Angle in XY Plane =     34
                  Delta X = 237.0279, Delta Y =  159.3551, Delta Z =   0.0000

                  LWPOLYLINE  Layer: "0"
                            Space: Model space
                   Handle = 3355
              Open
    Constant width    0.0000
              area   0.0000
            length   303.3308

          at point  X=1114.9600  Y= 521.9103  Z=   0.0000
          at point  X=1358.4524  Y= 702.7999  Z=   0.0000

This next one is using the Change command to relocate an end point. The first is the line (and the end point moves), the second a pline.

Command:  CHANGE
Select objects: 1 found

Select objects:  Specify change point or [Properties]:
Command:  CHANGE
Select objects: 1 found

Select objects:  Specify change point or [Properties]: No changeable object
selected

[Josh Nieman]

You said it's not easy to see what angle a pline is drawn at... you didn't say I had to tie my hands by limiting myself to only reading the list output.

Same with the change, thing... I don't ever use 'change'

[Krushert]

... As always, thanks for all of your comments. I have learned alot about plines from this discussion. Though I may be more confused than before. I didn't know there was that much to them.

craigr

I had noticed a "Pandoras Box" effect unfold in this thread as well. To each his own would apply here.

THAT is the problem though - 'To each his own' makes it tough learn to do it right.

Apparently, there ISN'T a 'right way to do it'. Or, anything having to do with CAD.

craigr

As it has been mention there are a lot of different ways to do one thing in CAD (in life as well).  One way is only more efficient "at the particular moment in time".  I always try to know a couple different ways of doing something becuase sometimes there will be something preventing you from accomplishing your task with your standard way of doing aka "habit". 

my $0.02

[kentium3k]

... many things you state about plines are very false.

hmmm... such as...??

...people still draw them with widths for
everything...

Lines can be easily checked for the angle they are drawn at, plines can't.


Lines can be straightened to align with Ortho quickly with change,
plines cannot.

Sure, I should have said 'some' people still draw them with widths. Very nitpicky on your part.

Please draw a pline and a line, use the list command.  Now what angle is the pline.  You left out an important part of the paragraph, the second sentence where I say to use list.  How do you just as easily check the angle of a pline as you can with a line?

Plines CANNOT be manipulated with the CHANGE command as a line can.  Try it for yourself.

[Josh Nieman]

I don't mean to dispute the facts you state, but merely their validity.

[Jeff_M]

I don't mean to dispute the facts you state, but merely their validity.

When you say "... many things you state about plines are very false." that IS disputing the facts.....now, had you said something like "I don't agree with some of these things because....." and included how you CAN do the same thing with plines then I wouldn't be questioning your statement. Just because YOU don't use those methods, doesn't mean a thousand other people don't.