Author Topic: Justifying the Upgrade  (Read 14354 times)

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CADaver

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2007, 01:30:14 PM »
Cadaver, I meant that the software publishers have "almost got it worked out".
I guess thats the part that has me confused.  We've been using 3D since R12 (actually some of us since R9) and we've been exclusively 3D since R14.  Where's the "almost" part??

we find that the programs are cumbersome and demand compromises to make their use economical. (Or in some cases even possible.)
Compromises?? such as??

CaddmannQ

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2007, 11:15:11 AM »
we find that the programs are cumbersome and demand compromises to make their use economical. (Or in some cases even possible.)
Compromises?? such as??


Well, for instance (mostly I'm talking about modules of the RAM software here)...

In some cases there are restrictions on where you can locate a member in the model. Usually it's a matter of a member being located where no structural logic would require one. Still people have to do such things, and just because it might be redundant, or slightly off a panel point, or connect floor 3 and 5 without ever intersecting floor 4, is no reason for the program to refuse to analyse (or even allow construction of) the model.

In some cases the geometry we need to model simply cannot be modeled at all, and we must jump through hoops to approximate a situation. One common issue is the creation of a circular hole or pad on a mat foundation. We paid a good bit of money for this software and it's got everyone pissed that modeling a circle isn't a matter of two or three clicks as it is in AutoCAD.

It's a pain to find the program you bought because it will do dynamic analysis on a 100 story building cannot deal with a column that is cantilevered from a floor and does not reach another unless you have placed a node on every possible floor where it "might" intersect, if only it was longer.

So we "compromise" our models in some manner that simulates the situation--yet is not the actual situation--so that the analysis will run. It takes time to figure out acceptable workarounds. It takes effort and time to justify their use to the people checking our work. It causes a lot of premature baldness, if you know what I mean.  :ugly:

Kate M

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2007, 12:33:30 PM »
we find that the programs are cumbersome and demand compromises to make their use economical. (Or in some cases even possible.)
Compromises?? such as??


Well, for instance (mostly I'm talking about modules of the RAM software here)...

Apples and oranges!! Or apples and hand grenades. You can't compare AutoCAD, a modeling program, with RAM, an analysis program. Completely different design problem in terms of "what makes a good program".

That said, I agree -- RAM is messed up. :-) Maybe it'll get better...someday...<sigh>

CADaver

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2007, 12:36:18 PM »
Kate beat me to it.  Your issue is not with AutoCAD or 3D but with the RAM software.  Might I suggest choosing applications not so lame?

CaddmannQ

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2007, 04:44:37 PM »
we find that the programs are cumbersome and demand compromises to make their use economical. (Or in some cases even possible.)
Compromises?? such as??


Well, for instance (mostly I'm talking about modules of the RAM software here)...

Apples and oranges!! Or apples and hand grenades. You can't compare AutoCAD, a modeling program, with RAM, an analysis program. Completely different design problem in terms of "what makes a good program".

That said, I agree -- RAM is messed up. :-) Maybe it'll get better...someday...<sigh>

I didn't think I was comparing the two specifically. I was simply saying that the 3D modeling we are doing (and all RAM's analysis is based on it's modeling, for better or worse) is cumbersome.

Anyhow, we are only doing this 3D for structural analysis, and not for the generation of construction documents. I just don't see that changing in the immediate future. (Like before I retire  :wink: )

CaddmannQ

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2007, 04:47:29 PM »
Kate beat me to it.  Your issue is not with AutoCAD or 3D but with the RAM software.  Might I suggest choosing applications not so lame?

You can suggest it, but I don't get to chose the CAE software. Actually, I don't get to chose the CAD software either. 95%+ of our work is state & federal, and AutoCAD is the mandated format.

CaddmannQ

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2007, 04:53:37 PM »
OK, that being said, I've been studiously avoiding 3D as long as AutoCAD has offered it. I've tried it from time to time, but have never found it fast or easy enough to make it worth while.

Perhaps my reasons for avoiding 3D modeling are finally untenable and archaic.

Perhaps in AutoCAD 2007 (our current mode) it is more available and effective, and economical.

I'm willing to at least investigate the matter further, and if it turns out to be finally feasible I don't see a reason not to adopt it.

But please remember that we are consultants, working from the drawings of others to generate out CD's. Nobody is sending me 3D worth beans right now, and it means I'll be generating our structural models from scratch. I just don't have a good feeling about the efficacy of that as yet.

CADaver

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2007, 06:52:09 PM »
... Nobody is sending me 3D worth beans right now, and it means I'll be generating our structural models from scratch. I just don't have a good feeling about the efficacy of that as yet.
As always, you'll get out of it exactly what you put in.