Author Topic: Justifying the Upgrade  (Read 14388 times)

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drizzt

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2007, 09:54:28 AM »
I to am having a problem getting my company to upgrade from 2000. I am thinking about offering them a deal...

I will purchase the software, pay for the training, but I get to charge them the same hours I would have worked using 2000. So, any time I save via the upgrade, I get to take off. Paid to go fishin'! what a deal.

CaddmannQ

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2007, 11:04:27 AM »
I certainly wish we'd skipped r11 & r13.
Oh no, not R11, we got Paperspace and XREFs with R11.

Yeah, but r12 was sooooo much better, that at the time we all wished we'd waited and never bothered with r11.  :kewl:

Atook

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2007, 11:08:29 AM »
r12 was fantastic, remember the long stack of floppies.

And there was a windows version!

CaddmannQ

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2007, 11:46:46 AM »
For instance we rarely do 3D,
But you will.

They've been struggling with this problem for 20 years, and I've got about 10 years 'til retirement. I figure they should just have it worked out by then.

Remember that we are only the structural engineers. When we use 3D it is for graphic problem solving of the scratchpaper nature, and never part of the construction docs: some little stick diagrams and that's about it. We don't "detail the snot" out of everything. That's the job of whomever's doing shop drawings.

It doesn't pay us to generate all the data in a 3D model as we simply don't need (nor want) to display every specific situation. Our drawings are highly schematic in nature. We need to group all similar situations under one umbrella that covers them all. The more situations we can cover with generalized details, the less we need to draw to cover our contract requirements and the more coordinated the overall product.

One thing our clients never do is to draw things in their actual size. They send us their 3D drawing all the time, and they are totally worthless because (among other things) they've drawn nominal sizes.

We toss them out and do dimensionally accurate drawings. In 2D.


CaddmannQ

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2007, 11:50:09 AM »
r12 was fantastic, remember the long stack of floppies.

And there was a windows version!

Remember? I still have the stack of floppies.  :-D

I was doing R-12 for DOS on a P-200 with 64 MB of ram, and though what we run today does more (MDI being the big thing) it doesn't do it any faster.

OTOH, the WWW is sure faster thanks to DSL.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 11:51:23 AM by CaddmannQ »

Krushert

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2007, 01:19:55 PM »
I just thought of something...

If someone reading this topic (who has 2007 or 2008) is really bored today, could you create a sample drawing with... well, some of these features in it?
Lesee, 2000 vs 2008 - pallettes, dashboard, push-pull, mouse control zoom, z track (ortho and polar), dynamic UCS, dynamic blocks, fields, tables, 3d grip edit, helix, polysolid, trim hatch, heads up command line, context sensirve heads up entry, scale annotations, dim break and jog, viewport layer control, workspaces, layer fading, mtext columns, multiline attributes (etc...)
I'd like to try converting it using this program, send it back to you and have you take a look to see how much is lost.

Just a thought...
Request granted.  2 dynamic blocks with one of them with fields and a table with a sum formula in the right column
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here picking up the empties beer cans

M-dub

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2007, 01:29:18 PM »
Request granted.  2 dynamic blocks with one of them with fields and a table with a sum formula in the right column

Thanks, Krush!  :)

Attached are what it it's been converted to (2000 & R14).  What happened to it?

Krushert

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2007, 02:03:12 PM »
Request granted.  2 dynamic blocks with one of them with fields and a table with a sum formula in the right column

Thanks, Krush!  :)

Attached are what it it's been converted to (2000 & R14).  What happened to it?


All work as they were originally intended. No issue that I can tell. 

I don't think this is what you wanted to hear is it.  :?
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here picking up the empties beer cans

CADaver

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2007, 02:05:54 PM »
For instance we rarely do 3D,
But you will.

They've been struggling with this problem for 20 years, and I've got about 10 years 'til retirement. I figure they should just have it worked out by then.
ummm... we worked it out nearly a decade ago and have been doing 3D exclusivly for over six years.

Remember that we are only the structural engineers. When we use 3D it is for graphic problem solving of the scratchpaper nature, and never part of the construction docs: some little stick diagrams and that's about it. We don't "detail the snot" out of everything. That's the job of whomever's doing shop drawings.
Even when we're just doing the engineering and not the fabrication, 3D provides a time savings that can not compare with 2D.  If we are to do the fabrication and hence the detailing we don't use AutoCAD.  Tekla is just way too fast at producing fabrication details to stuggle through trying it in AutoCAD.

It doesn't pay us to generate all the data in a 3D model as we simply don't need (nor want) to display every specific situation.
It has very little at all to do with "display".  Employing a cheap little interference checking tool like "Navisworks Clash Detective" can save as much as two percent of the "Total Installed Cost" of a project.  Full BOM's can be quickly and easily extracted from 3D models (if properly done).  Then there's the time saved on revisions and modifications.  We simply can't afford to to 2D drawings any more.

Our drawings are highly schematic in nature. We need to group all similar situations under one umbrella that covers them all. The more situations we can cover with generalized details, the less we need to draw to cover our contract requirements and the more coordinated the overall product.
You can still cover details in a generalized format

One thing our clients never do is to draw things in their actual size. They send us their 3D drawing all the time, and they are totally worthless because (among other things) they've drawn nominal sizes.

We toss them out and do dimensionally accurate drawings. In 2D.
Wait a minute?? Are they "dimensionally accurate drawings" or are they "highly schematic in nature"??  If you mean by "schematic" that they are one-lines, but are accurate drawings, then you would lose nothing at all going to 3D except a lot of time on duplicate efforts.  

You work in 3D all the time anyway, its just in your head, not saved in a file.

M-dub

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2007, 02:06:25 PM »
I don't think this is what you wanted to hear is it.  :?

No, but hey, what can ya do?! *shrug*

Thanks very much!

I still say it was a valid concern, though.

Guest

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2007, 02:06:35 PM »
A mo' bettah test might be to have M-Dub convert the files using TrueConvert, open them in AutoCAD, save them, THEN repost them and see what's different about them.

Krushert

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2007, 02:08:30 PM »
A mo' bettah test might be to have M-Dub convert the files using TrueConvert, open them in AutoCAD, save them, THEN repost them and see what's different about them.
This might be worth a try.
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here picking up the empties beer cans

M-dub

  • Guest
Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2007, 02:13:31 PM »
Well, here goes nothin'
2000, R14 and for good measure, R13 (because someone here still uses it!)


Bob

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2007, 02:17:58 PM »
Just because I use 2000, it doesn't mean to say I don't do 3d.


CADaver

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Re: Justifying the Upgrade
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2007, 02:21:45 PM »
Just because I use 2000, it doesn't mean to say I don't do 3d.
Oh no doubt, we've been doing 3D since R9.  But just as R2000 3D tools were much better than the R12 3D tools, the R2008 3D tools are much much MUCH better than the R2000 tools.