Author Topic: I beam imperial, Wf imperial  (Read 16185 times)

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Bryco

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I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« on: May 31, 2007, 01:13:49 AM »
The ones that come with cad in the sample tool palette Civil/structural,
are they cosher or approximations?
I'm looking for Channels as well, but cant find any decent info on them.

Josh Nieman

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2007, 08:26:49 AM »
The ones that come with cad in the sample tool palette Civil/structural,
are they cosher or approximations?
I'm looking for Channels as well, but cant find any decent info on them.

very un-kosher.  many are simply wrong in size, and plus they don't even have most of the common sizes we use!

I'd do a search on the autodesk newsgroups for this, (possibly here as well, haven't tried it here so I dont know) for a solution.  There are many out there, though not always a dynamic block.  I use a version of Al's Steel Mill for most of my stuff (non-3d) which makes all WF, M, S, C, MC, and all those cool AISC shapes, imperial and metric.  My only beef is that it's pipes doesn't list Schedule sizes, only STD, XL, XXL or whatever... we still use schedule nomenclature.

Anyways... I would strongly advise AGAINST using the supplied dynamic block because it's crap.

CADaver

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2007, 08:31:57 AM »

Bryco

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2007, 09:35:35 AM »
Thanks Josh,
Randy, that's an extremely handy list.
I would rather have 2d sections myself and I want to draw them from coordinates,
so this is the GO. The radii is the thing I've never worked out.
1)On a "W" would k-tf give me the actual radius?
Seems the same as k1-1/2tw
2) On the Channels-would you hazard a guess on the inside fillet size say compared to the web thickness.

 

Josh Nieman

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 09:42:07 AM »
Thanks Josh,
Randy, that's an extremely handy list.
I would rather have 2d sections myself and I want to draw them from coordinates,
so this is the GO. The radii is the thing I've never worked out.
1)On a "W" would k-tf give me the actual radius?
Seems the same as k1-1/2tw
2) On the Channels-would you hazard a guess on the inside fillet size say compared to the web thickness.

 

to be quite honest, whenever I implement someone else's blocks/routine for creating the steel, I check all the numbers that are important to me against the black book (AISC steel construction manual 13th edition) and generally the fillet is just anything that fits between the flange thickness and the k value... I think k... someone stole my black book... anyways, the clear-usable-gage of the web minus the flange thickness gives you the fillet range.  Since that's going to vary a bit anyways (check out mill tolerances... there're engineers here that think those values in the table are solid and invariable, heh... apperantly they never worked any job in production or in a shop)

Anyways, what I'm getting at is this: the fillet is pretty unimportant, as far as I know... unless you have a special application.  What -is- important is workable gage, web gage and all that... the amount of web or flange that is USABLE.

Bob Garner

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 10:24:00 AM »
Well said, Josh.

As the rolls that form the shapes wear, the radius etc. changes.  The only thing I can add is to remember that the slope on the inside of the flanges of channels is 1:6.

Bob

Chuck Gabriel

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2007, 10:39:01 AM »
The only thing I can add is to remember that the slope on the inside of the flanges of channels is 1:6.

Thanks for the tip.  I seem to recall having seen that somewhere before.  Where did you pick it up?

Never mind.  I found it on page 1-9 of the green book.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 10:41:12 AM by Chuck Gabriel »

Bryco

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2007, 10:49:07 AM »
We use very little structural steel in the scenery business but we do clad around it sometimes, so sometimes the fillet is important. Thanks.

CADaver

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2007, 02:49:30 PM »
Thanks Josh,
Randy, that's an extremely handy list.
I would rather have 2d sections myself and I want to draw them from coordinates,
so this is the GO. The radii is the thing I've never worked out.
1)On a "W" would k-tf give me the actual radius?
Seems the same as k1-1/2tw
2) On the Channels-would you hazard a guess on the inside fillet size say compared to the web thickness.

The latest AISC manual comes with a CD that contains an excel file of all structural shapes that includes all the dimensions necessary to draw them.  It is an excellent place to start if you wish to build a function (lisp/vba/c#/whatever) for bulding steel shapes.

When building 3D models of structural steel we square off the inside corner, the fillet does little for us except slow us down and make the structure elevations plot funny.

Bob Garner

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2007, 05:49:29 PM »
And, well said Cadaver.

The shapes database is available for free download at the AISC website.  It's called Shapes Database v13.0, in .xls or .html format and you can find it in the free pubs/free e-mail section. 

Bob

Strucmad

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2007, 07:42:42 PM »
Chuck,
I've always used this routine http://www.draftsperson.net/index.php?title=Wisey%27s_Steel_Shapes_LISP_program , found it accurate, only 2d but, might help.

Paul.

TimSpangler

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 07:28:50 AM »
We use a free lisp called DDShapes  It seems to work fine.  It is a freeware but the lisp leads a little to be desired.  The original didn't localize any variables.  With a little house cleaning I seems to have gotten it to work well.  Just google it.  I'll ask the poweres that be here at work and if they don't have a problem I'll post my version and save you the work.

Just let me know.
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Chuck Gabriel

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 07:54:08 AM »
Chuck,
I've always used this routine http://www.draftsperson.net/index.php?title=Wisey%27s_Steel_Shapes_LISP_program , found it accurate, only 2d but, might help.

Paul.

Thanks for that.  I have something for 2D, but I have a pet project, for doing steel in 3D, that I've let fall by the wayside.  I've never been able to figure out how some of the logic in the algorithms I've seen for drawing channels was derived, and knowing the bit about the 2:12 slope is one piece of the puzzle.

Bryco

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 08:46:41 AM »
Ps_port that little prog looks nice.
I may end up doing some of this myself anyway as getting the list was the hard part.
In a channel I've presumed the average thickness is a point half way down the flange -the web thickness.
 

Chuck Gabriel

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Re: I beam imperial, Wf imperial
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 09:04:39 AM »
I don't believe the 2:12 rule necessarily applies to MC shapes (only S and C shapes).  The green book says something to the effect that individual mills should be consulted for the dimensions (and inside flange slopes) of M and MC shapes.

I have an old Bethlehem Steel book, and it doesn't make any mention of the slope.  It is probably fine to assume 2:12 for general drafting purposes, but you might want something more precise for fabrication detailing.