Author Topic: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...  (Read 51718 times)

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Krushert

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2006, 07:04:37 PM »
This thread is a riot because our small office is creating it first standards manual.  We decide we would do it democratically and sit a round a table and discuss what every one would like to see.  A very big mistake.  Lets see, we started with topic of how and what was going to be xref.  Four 1-hour meetings latter we were still on the same topic with very little agreed upon.  Everybody had a different opinion on how and what should be xref.  All opinions were based on where someone came from or my favorite, didn't want to do becuase of laziness (actual reason stated new hire). The vice principal/president of the firm canceled all meetings and is now writing the cad standards the way he sees fit.  The only problem I have with that and it is minor problem, he thinks and drives Autocad as if it were r11 on that era computer.  Just a minor issue. 

Hell we have three principles that have their own version of a title block and the information that is shown on the drawings reflect their opinions on what it should look like.  We were a small office of 7 until year and half ago.  We are now 12 people all doing their own thing.  We have one suck-up even change the title block pen weights and fonts.    He said he got it approved from the one principle that doesn’t even use Autocad.   :realmad:  We have three old timers (2 of them are principles) that use Drawbase and refuse to come to the dark side of Autodesk version of cad.  This suck-up is the dangerous one because he thinks where he came from is the only way to do things and he is good at sucking up. :pissed:

IMHO, Cad standards are opinions of the company decision on what they want their drawings to look like.  And those who join that firm should follow the old adage “when Rome, do as the Romans”.  Just spouting off MY two cents and why.
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here for camaraderie

glee

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2006, 07:38:19 PM »
CAD standards. This thread has stretched out over a long time. 
Funny thing since we find a lot of post about people trying to get their standards in place.  Now in the year 2006 (better late than never).    ;-)

Anyway, programs change so it helps if your standard is somewhat adaptable.  (i didn't say change it at the flip of a coin, though that could be a standard too  :-o).  Anyway, setting standards democratically works in some offices and not in others. 
Having a suck up with great sucking up prowess will eventually lead to a standard.  Albeit not one you like, but a standard nevertheless.  You can work to improve it from there.  Helps if you have a CAD manager. 
You could always try to be the cad manager or accept the challenge of it.  Unless you are worried others may perceive you as the new and improved suck up.   :-)


« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 07:43:18 PM by glee »

glee

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2006, 07:40:55 PM »
For such a "great" program, it's users sure do like to complain about it.
Actually I think it's because it has such a big user base that things can sometimes get done because of all the whining. 
Um, not that the software improves that much but you get users who try to improve things because of autcads ability to be customized.  Like this here forum. 

RbtDanforth

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2006, 07:52:02 PM »
Standards are so  office and discipline specific, there are no one system fits all systems.

I have a very tight system for doing single houses, but the system doesn't work for apartments, much less machine design.

A good coherent system is worth the manuals weight in gold, but a badly designed system or one that ignores recent advances can be as destructive as no system.

Still a continual discussion is not a bad thing as long as it goes both up and down the various levels.

My peeve is having the whole drawing made up of tiny arcs and line segments,making any change tedious and laborious. For others only that can the manipulate.

If all the lines are on 0 layer and adjusted by color and linetype I can kick them into separate layers a few moves if necessary.

It is just really tough to unexplode blocks. Particularly in a very complex drawing.

Krushert

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2006, 08:39:31 PM »
Glee, I agree with everything you have said.

The two failures in this office is one; stubbornness of not recognizing that my way is just my opinion and two; that other person that is arguing with me doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about so therefore I am going to do what I want when I want.  Until this mentality is corrected from the top down, it doesn’t matter how many manuals are written.   This it the reason why I and few others have gained very little ground on getting any form of standards in place when we have tried to take the initiative.

I agree that having a flexible doctrine in place allows for changes due to future software releases and projects that fit the norm.  And that is why this firm has managed meet the demands of it clients for so long, going on 30 years doing everything medical to residential.  The problem we are facing is we have nothing to convey to the new hires of what our procedures are and that has final come around and bit us on our rear ends.

You must remember the Sylvester the cat cartoon with Chester and Spike, and how Chester is always hoping around Spike asking if he can find Spike a cat.  Our suck up is that Chester.  And he sorts hops around whomever he happens to be sucking up to.  Our Chester is good at two things, schmoozing the clients and making pretty renderings (I give credit where credit where credit is due), but he can’t drive cad to save his butt.  I have already to fix bunch of files and he has been here only a few months.

I have hijacked this thread enough.
I + XI = X is true ...  ... if you change your perspective.

I no longer CAD or Model, I just hang out here for camaraderie

Greg B

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2006, 09:42:56 PM »
I, unfortunately, am one of those people that create change in an office.  I've done it at all 4 CAD related jobs I have had.  Some have not been the best, but most have made the office more efficient.

In my current job, I am being reigned in.  This is good, cause we review as a group (there are 5 of us) if the change is a good one and discuss it.  If it is not, we don't do it and I scrape it (so they think).  If it is good we change and continue on.

Some of the good changes I've created...

Symbols (blocks) on the networks so we are all using the same ones.  If someone adds to it, everyone can get to it.
Same things eventually for hatchs and linetypes.
Introducing xrefs (at least how the work in DataCAD) to the group.  They were fossils before i started.
Layer naming.  Something that is more straightforward and easy to read.


Stuff I'm working in.
Default drawings.
Looking for more things that I can do to improve how we work in the office.  I've gotten some great ideas from the swamp (believe it or not).  Doesn't matter if you guys are using AutoCAD or what not.  There are a lot of simliarites between all the cad packages.

RbtDanforth

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2006, 10:40:25 PM »
Quote
Stuff I'm working in.
Default drawings.

Doing single family houses I set up a base drawing with all the layers, all the pages (except details) all the elevations already set out with defpoints rectangles at the four sides, and a place for sections just beyond. All the plans are done in the center.

Each page is set up with a border and the layers frozen etc as per need. All the plan door & window blocks, all the tags and linetypes, the electrical legend in the electrical  space with all the electrical blocks. If you just draw the house correctly, all the sheets are already setup and done.

There is a square at 150' from the center of the drawing that is the finish floor of all elevations and the sections 50' further. If you get the height of a gable an ofset of the square is the height of that roof in all the other elevations. If you get one roofline, just mirror it and you have the roofline on the other side, or copy 50' down rip out some stuff and you have a section. Each part on an elevation of course lines up with the plan.

The whole thing is really quite the slam dunk, and it is all there from the moment you start a drawing.

Shinyhead

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2006, 11:05:36 AM »
Man, Most of yall have it SOOOO easy.
I had to laugh   :-D when I read about the difficulty in setting up one cad standard, no offense to yall.  I work in an outsourcing firm and one of the keys to the way we operate is that we draw to the clients standards. Layering, file naming, block usage, directory structure, everything. In a typical day I can go from a project with keyplans x-ref'd in to the the drawing that is id'd with dynamic blocks using fields directly to another client who draws everything on the zero layer in model spaced scaled down to the size of his titleblock and explodes everything, including hatch and dimensions. :ugly: And everyone in our office HAS to be able to do that if they wanna keep collecting a paycheck. :pissed:

I will agree with the OP, standards are almost always based on the opinion of the one(s) that created it. It may or may not make any sense to anyone else, but if that's the standard, you go with it.
In setting up all our client standards I have found one thing in common, NOTHING is the only way to do something. Zero layer, by layer, plotstyle, x-rf, blocks, ms/ps, groups etc. different people do it different ways. My job is to make Autocad do that without 18,000 buttons so the users can use it effectively.  Maybe that's why I have no hair? ^-^


glee

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2006, 11:20:55 AM »
Would it help if some of us who have CAD standards posted their files somewhere?
I know that half the time standards don't get done because it takes a lot of time and effort to put them together. 
Obviously the standards from one office is going to be different from another.  Plus it's very different across different engineering and architecture disciplines.  Within architecture, a firm that does public work will be different from one doing residential. 
But just maybe a set of published manuals would be a help to somebody hoping to put one together. 
Just give credit where it's due and change to suit. 

There's a bunch of guys here who have established standards in place.  It's a lot of time, effort and intellectual property.  But so are the lisp routines that are posted here for the use of people everday.  I have definitely benefited from those routines. 
I wouldn't mind posting my standards for people to use and edit and change.  If it helps you have something in print that you can show your boss, I think it may sway them over to your side of thinking.  At least you don't have to start from scratch.  You just adjust or edit to suit.  Given mine address a lot of my custom menus, those you can delete or change to suit your custom menus. 
Jut be aware that they are architecture centric.  But maybe the other professions can see where some of us come from and not think we are all idiots. 
If this is of interest let me know and I'll figure out how to post it. 
It's a bunch of PDF files with references to different issues.  part of my 1 1/2" cad standards binder and office manual.  Um, everything is geared towards 2004. 

Shinyhead

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2006, 11:32:07 AM »
We have a standard client survey we are creating that is in dwf format (we maintain our standards in hyperlinked dwfs, or are working on that :-P). Once we get the website revamped and the survey redone by our in house "graphic artist" (read as: the boss's wife) I will gladly post them along with some of the standards in the finalized format, if it would help.

M-dub

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2006, 03:06:04 PM »
That would be really cool, Shinyhead!  Not to mention very generous!

Be aware of company restrictions, though.  They may not like that idea too much.

However, if they're cool with it, we'd sure like to see what you've got! :)

CADaver

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2006, 10:54:23 AM »
NOTHING is the only way to do something.
Very true, and I've seen as many different cliant standards as you.  However, (always one of those) ther ARE "better" ways, more efficient ways, right ways of doing all things.  While setting DIMASSSOC=0 is "a" way, it's not the most efficient wayand therefore not the "right" way.

RbtDanforth

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2006, 10:00:08 AM »
Chris
  I have worked a similar client range as you speak of, fortunately I did it one client at a time. Trying to manage that kind of range all at once would definitely send me around the bend.

For your odder clients, I think I would keep two sets of drawings, one you could work on comfortably, and one that a few lisp routines would degrade into their standards.

 I actually did that in a shop that insisted that everything be exploded. I had blocks that used text as insertion points, and programs that sought out and created polylines or exploded them. And another that sought out and erased the random dots(0 length lines)from exploded hatches

Shinyhead

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2006, 07:32:45 AM »
As far as two sets of drawings, that is EXACTLY how we do it, we have a folder for "published" drawings that are blown to crap so to speak, but if we have redlines we can go back to our original, edit it and republish it.  I wish we had the option of lisp but I do it all in macros with scripts and diesel as most all our stations are LT. 

As far as putting our standards up, we are redoing our web site to have a portion of it where I can post little routines and samples of CAD standards for people to download and use. Nothing too powerful mind you (we gotta keep something for ourselves  ;-)), but enough to be helpful. The boss gave us the go ahead this past week to start putting it all together.

RbtDanforth

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Re: Opinions!!! Keep them to yourself...
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2006, 11:17:47 AM »
Chris,
  There are programs out there that have made a deal with Autodesk to demaim LT so their lisp will work. Funny thing, when their 30day trial runs out, their stuff no longer works, but lt remains demaimed.

 Still no fancy stuff, like refedit, etc but lisp works, and I can drive a semi through that loophole. Saved my life at a past job.