Author Topic: * * Public announce * *  (Read 16650 times)

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Mark

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2007, 02:03:43 PM »
So Andrea/Martin Leduc what does this mean for the current ObjectDCL users?
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Mark

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2007, 02:22:42 PM »
Quote from: Andrea
First, open source projects require a strong core team dedicated to maintaining intellectual control on code change.
True! Just like any business, without the basic structure you would have chaos.

Quote from: Andrea
Second, the most successful open source projects are backed by giant software companies
Name one.

Quote from: Andrea
Getting the best minds to display interest to an open source project is expensive
No they do it for the love of the project, programming, challenge, etc.. I don't know of any developers off hand, although I'm sure there are some, who do get paid for their work on an open source project.

Quote from: Andrea
(2) as there is competition with other commercial activities they are already engaged into.
No ... I don't think so. As I understand it many of these developers sign contracts with the company they work for, if they develop software that conflicts with the companies then they lose their job.

Anyway I wish you the best of luck Andrea.
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CmdrDuh

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 04:01:50 PM »
  Can someone copyright all of the help Andrea has gotten for FREE here over the last few years?

  I'm just a non-programmer asking silly questions here.   :wink: :-)
Ditto.  Seems like this happened somewhere else also.  If he can make it work, good for him, but I hate to see people who give help for free go unnoticed in the end.  It would be nice if all the help he recieved over the years was rewarded with free copies of what he is selling now.
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DW

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2007, 05:08:46 PM »
First and foremost, I want to apologize personally about the delay before making a public announcement.

Why the public announcement? Does it really matter? 

The proprietary model didn't work out and left a lot of people in the lurch. Chad recognised this was not acceptable and released ObjectDCL as open source. The outcome of this is that now there is a tool which is working well and has some new foundations to allow it to continue to evolve.

If the intention of these pronouncements is to confuse the issue and bring into question the viability and legality of OpenDCL, Ductisoft seem to be having some success.  Understandably, the open source project will be a significant threat to the viability of their project.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 05:16:31 PM by DW »

Keith™

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2007, 08:14:07 PM »
I think there may be some misconceptions, I know Andrea has received lots of help in these forums in the past, so have I ... as has just about every other person inthis group. If you have not received any help from this forum, then you must be the smart ones. Should the fact that someone, anyone, receives or received help from someone else have any bearing on what someone does with something they bought and paid for? Please all of the moaning and groaning is making me sick ... it isn't like anyone here .. not one single person that I know of, has provided a single line of code or a single resolution to a problem with regards to ObjectDCL. In fact, if you did, then your complaint isn't with Andrea, it is with the person who owned the copyright (Chad) prior to SELLING it to Andrea and Ductisoft.

If you have received help from here on any project and used it to generate income, then you are guilty of the same thing you are insinuating he is guilty of ... get over it already ... if you like it so much and think you can do better, why havn't you written your own by now.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 08:16:05 PM by Keith™ »
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Chuck Gabriel

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2007, 08:23:39 PM »
It seems to me that at least one purpose of the announcement (if not the primary purpose) was to spread FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) about the legitimacy and future of OpenDCL, just as DW suggested.  It is a very underhanded and cowardly tactic used by those who do not believe they can compete merely on the merits of their own work.  I also believe (and hope) that it will fail to accomplish its goal of undermining the good work that is being done on OpenDCL.  However much DuctiSoft may wish it were not so, Chad could not grant them exclusive rights to the code once it had been released under GPL, and all the veiled threats in the world will not change that fact.  Perhaps DuctiSoft should consult with an actual attorney before they go about making any more outrageous claims.

Kerry

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2007, 09:06:36 PM »
... it isn't like anyone here .. not one single person that I know of, has provided a single line of code or a single resolution to a problem with regards to ObjectDCL. ..

Keith,
You now know of one.

... and my issue is not with Chad, it's with attempts being made stop my involvement with OpenDCL development.
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Serge J. Gianolla

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2007, 09:10:36 PM »
I think there may be some misconceptions, I know Andrea has received lots of help in these forums in the past, so have I ... as has just about every other person inthis group. If you have not received any help from this forum, then you must be the smart ones. Should the fact that someone, anyone, receives or received help from someone else have any bearing on what someone does with something they bought and paid for? Please all of the moaning and groaning is making me sick ... it isn't like anyone here .. not one single person that I know of, has provided a single line of code or a single resolution to a problem with regards to ObjectDCL. In fact, if you did, then your complaint isn't with Andrea, it is with the person who owned the copyright (Chad) prior to SELLING it to Andrea and Ductisoft.

If you have received help from here on any project and used it to generate income, then you are guilty of the same thing you are insinuating he is guilty of ... get over it already ... if you like it so much and think you can do better, why havn't you written your own by now.

Couldn't have said it better myself! It is amazing that common sense re difference between help given and purchase of entirely different software had to be explained though, don't you think? :kewl:

Serge J. Gianolla

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2007, 09:12:33 PM »
It seems to me that at least one purpose of the announcement (if not the primary purpose) was to spread FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) about the legitimacy and future of OpenDCL, just as DW suggested.  It is a very underhanded and cowardly tactic used by those who do not believe they can compete merely on the merits of their own work.  I also believe (and hope) that it will fail to accomplish its goal of undermining the good work that is being done on OpenDCL.  However much DuctiSoft may wish it were not so, Chad could not grant them exclusive rights to the code once it had been released under GPL, and all the veiled threats in the world will not change that fact.  Perhaps DuctiSoft should consult with an actual attorney before they go about making any more outrageous claims.
The Irish have a saying "A thief does not trust noone"! Cogitate on this and understand what you will :evil:

Chuck Gabriel

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2007, 09:33:09 PM »
It seems to me that at least one purpose of the announcement (if not the primary purpose) was to spread FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) about the legitimacy and future of OpenDCL, just as DW suggested.  It is a very underhanded and cowardly tactic used by those who do not believe they can compete merely on the merits of their own work.  I also believe (and hope) that it will fail to accomplish its goal of undermining the good work that is being done on OpenDCL.  However much DuctiSoft may wish it were not so, Chad could not grant them exclusive rights to the code once it had been released under GPL, and all the veiled threats in the world will not change that fact.  Perhaps DuctiSoft should consult with an actual attorney before they go about making any more outrageous claims.
The Irish have a saying "A thief does not trust noone"! Cogitate on this and understand what you will :evil:

Takes one to know one, eh?  Point out a single instance where I have ever tried to deceive or intimidate anyone here or any place else in my life, and I will humbly submit to your accusation.  I think you'll have a hard time making your case.

I admit I could be wrong about all of this, but the facts so far appear to confirm my suspicions.  It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone in the software industry tried to use those types of tactics to ensure their competition was still-born, so please forgive me if I see conspiracy where none exists.  Call me a cynic if you like, but please don't call me a thief.

Serge J. Gianolla

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2007, 09:49:34 PM »
It seems to me that at least one purpose of the announcement (if not the primary purpose) was to spread FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) about the legitimacy and future of OpenDCL, just as DW suggested.  It is a very underhanded and cowardly tactic used by those who do not believe they can compete merely on the merits of their own work.  I also believe (and hope) that it will fail to accomplish its goal of undermining the good work that is being done on OpenDCL.  However much DuctiSoft may wish it were not so, Chad could not grant them exclusive rights to the code once it had been released under GPL, and all the veiled threats in the world will not change that fact.  Perhaps DuctiSoft should consult with an actual attorney before they go about making any more outrageous claims.
The Irish have a saying "A thief does not trust noone"! Cogitate on this and understand what you will :evil:

Takes one to know one, eh?  Point out a single instance where I have ever tried to deceive or intimidate anyone here or any place else in my life, and I will humbly submit to your accusation.  I think you'll have a hard time making your case.

I admit I could be wrong about all of this, but the facts so far appear to confirm my suspicions.  It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone in the software industry tried to use those types of tactics to ensure their competition was still-born, so please forgive me if I see conspiracy where none exists.  Call me a cynic if you like, but please don't call me a thief.

Chuck, I never accused you of being a thief, I do not even know you! "Understand what you will" was more to make people think that the saying is not cornering one category but is applicable to broad spectrum. In short, if someone is innocent, he/she will see innocence everywhere!

BazzaCAD

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2007, 09:53:56 PM »
... it isn't like anyone here .. not one single person that I know of, has provided a single line of code or a single resolution to a problem with regards to ObjectDCL.

Keith, Owen has done 90% if the coding in OpenDCL. You can find 1 of his posts here. http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=15390.msg186793#msg186793 He doesn't say much here since he's too busy getting no sleep while he works on OpenDCL. So that's 2 people working on OpenDCL + me so that's 3 that you now know of.
a.k.a. Barry Ralphs

Chuck Gabriel

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2007, 10:02:38 PM »
In short, if someone is innocent, he/she will see innocence everywhere!

So if I see dishonesty and cowardice, it must be because I'm a dishonest coward?  Sounds like I understood you perfectly well the first time to me.

For the record, I do not have a problem with DuctiSoft trying to make a buck selling ObjectDCL and distributing it under whatever license their deal with Chad allows.  I DO have a problem with them claiming rights they do not actually have and trying to discredit/intimidate OpenDCL's developers and users.

Kerry

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2007, 10:03:15 PM »
Barry, I thought Keith's post referred to Chad's Original ObjectDCL, and that was what I answered to. If he was referring to OpenDCL, my post still stands, I guess :-)
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Keith™

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Re: * * Public announce * *
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2007, 10:27:38 PM »
... it isn't like anyone here .. not one single person that I know of, has provided a single line of code or a single resolution to a problem with regards to ObjectDCL. ..

Keith,
You now know of one.

... and my issue is not with Chad, it's with attempts being made stop my involvement with OpenDCL development.


I stand corrected on that point ... however the real issue is whether OpenDCL (as a derivative works of ObjectDCL) is subject to license revocation, if it is indeed possible ... I have read many law blogs where the licensing issue has been discussed. The general consensus is that as the copyright holder, you may do whatever you want with regards to the license, since it is a license and not a contract (at least there is a distinction under US law) Under contract law, the contractor must receive consideration from the contractee for there to be a binding contract. There is also the issue of third parties distributing software that uses GPL code. While GPL does state that the license holder may distribute it, US Code 301 would likely preempt and cause the licenses of the sublicensees to be null and void. The legal discussions have my head spinning at the moment.

And as far as who you should be upset with, I would say Chad is the guy .. especially since revocation of GPL was a condition for the purchase of ObjectDCL. If you don't see it that way, then I don't know what to say about that except, if that IF revocation of GPL was a condition of the transaction between him and Ductisoft, then he would have been the one who would have made the decision to revoke the license.

If I tell you that as a condition of an agreement we may reach on a contract for purchase that you must do "this" or "that", when you choose to accept my offer, you are then responsible for the act of doing whatever "this" or "that" was.
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