Author Topic: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.  (Read 6816 times)

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gmyroup

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Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« on: March 07, 2007, 09:18:52 AM »
If you were able to execute AutoCAD’s more commonly used drawing, editing, transformation, and annotation commands WITHOUT ever touching a menu, toolbar, shortcut, or command line… would you consider learning the new interface if it showed promise of making you 20%+ more productive?

hendie

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2007, 09:37:29 AM »
no menu's, no toolbars, no shortcuts OR command line ?????

is this AutoCAD... the psychic edition ?

M-dub

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 09:42:51 AM »
I'm a little confused too.  Although that's nothing new, I'd just like to point that out again.

Voice recognition?  Nostromo?  Tablet?

That's a big Maybe from me...
My spacebar is worn from use as "Enter" from command line keyins.  It would have to be quicker than that.  I'm interested though.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2007, 09:55:06 AM by M-dub »

Josh Nieman

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 10:06:15 AM »


So no interface from keyboard or mouse...

uhh... what's left, a touchscreen?  or like hendie said... psychic?

I hope this doesn't turn into a sales pitch of empty promises, skewed research, biased figures, and overblown estimates...


You're not, by chance, the guy who was pushing the Autocad addon on the Autodesk Discussion Groups a few weeks ago that got shot down by a few people (including some who frequent these boards as well) are you?

Josh Nieman

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Mark

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 10:37:12 AM »
http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=526149

...save your time folks...

Why? Sounds like gmyroup might be onto something, why not let them show us what they are up to! who knows, it might be the next "sliced bread" in the CAD world.

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Josh Nieman

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 10:43:57 AM »
http://discussion.autodesk.com/thread.jspa?threadID=526149

...save your time folks...

Why? Sounds like gmyroup might be onto something, why not let them show us what they are up to! who knows, it might be the next "sliced bread" in the CAD world.



I just remember going through the details thoroughly and it was nothing but a time waster and a bag of misconceptions.  All figures were based on someone who doesn't use any shortcuts or customized knowledge of Autocad.  All figures of improvement are based on someone who types "l-i-n-e, -enter-" for a line etc etc and doesn't use any customization.

The examples given that he could do worlds faster than any average Autocad drafter/detailer... I was able to do with no customization in the same amount of time in vanilla ACAD.  That and he talked up the program so much... but yet wouldn't let anyone try it.  It was a big blue-baller for those interested, and a big disappointment for those who wanted to try it.

Empty promises are in the same category as lies, to me... and so one who does nothing but speak them are in the same category as liars, to me... not worth time, and to be cautioned against.

Just thought I'd provide the "other side of things" since it's already been discussed in detail... anyone here may find that their question was already answered, and find their curiosity sated in a more expedient way by reading over there, than posting here... waiting... then going through the politician-esque verbatim that this person exudes.

M-dub

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 10:49:11 AM »
If you're right, Josh, the people here will figure that out for themselves.  You've been here long enough to know that most of us are a fairly 'with it' bunch.  I like to think that we're also a little more open minded than many of those found posting at the other place.

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2007, 10:53:03 AM »
Thank you Mark...

Remember.... if you always do what you've always done... you'll always get what you've always gotten.

While CAD programs have improved in functionality over the years... the basic premise of how we interact with it hasn't.  Maybe it's time for a change.  Is it the next best thing since 'sliced bread'.... check out the demo and then decide.

I will be posting a link to the pre-alpha version in the Show Us Your Stuff forum later today.

Jerry Myroup


Mark

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2007, 11:19:24 AM »
I appreciate your opinion Josh and the link your provided, I just don't want to see anyone here flamed for trying to show us something new. So far gmyroup hasn't broken any rules of theswamp, that I've noticed anyway, so let them have a chance please.
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Atook

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2007, 11:20:30 AM »
I'm always interested in new interface ideas. It's one area that's really been lacking in innovation. Which may be for a good reason (no improvement in efficiency)

Your post in the other forum asked about making it mandatory for users. In my experience the way to successfully implement something is to make it the easiest way to do something. If a new interface concept makes things simpler and faster to use a piece of software, it will sell it's self. If not, it won't, and no amount of marketing will help it to succeed.

Looking forward to seeing what you've got.

Josh Nieman

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2007, 11:36:24 AM »
If you're right, Josh, the people here will figure that out for themselves.  You've been here long enough to know that most of us are a fairly 'with it' bunch.  I like to think that we're also a little more open minded than many of those found posting at the other place.

I'm not thinking otherwise at all... I was just offering information.  I wasn't saying that the link was the Bible you should read from and go by... I was saying that there's information there that you can learn from... I'm not telling you to like it or lump it... just that you could save some time by reading over there... like I said, it might answer a question you had, and you won't have to wait for the answer here.  That's all.

I appreciate your opinion Josh and the link your provided, I just don't want to see anyone here flamed for trying to show us something new. So far gmyroup hasn't broken any rules of theswamp, that I've noticed anyway, so let them have a chance please.


Wasn't intending to flame, just to provide more information on the topic.  I felt it would "get to the point" a little faster and save people some time.  Not save them time by making them not look into the product at all... but can ask more specific questions based on more information (at the autodesk groups) than is here, so far.

daron

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2007, 08:27:05 AM »
Can you load it up to the lily pond?

jonesy

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2007, 08:58:00 AM »
Hi Jerry

See this topic.
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=6639.0

Ask a mod if you want a folder creating for you :-)
Thanks for explaining the word "many" to me, it means a lot.

Mark

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2007, 09:16:17 AM »
If I upload to the Lily Pond can non-members download the file as well?
Yes but please do not use it for your primary source for downloads, the lilly pond is meant for members of theswamp only.
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gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2007, 12:07:35 PM »
The pre-alpha version of the CAD interface WITHOUT menus, toolbars, shortcut, and command-line should be available for download tomorrow from the Lily Pond area for those of you who would like to check it out. We've encountered additional technical difficulties in trying to upload it.

Please note that the version you download will be our stand-alone version which was created for the sole purpose of proving the concept and whether it will be embraced by the user community before we actually commit the resources ($$$) to create the add-in that will work inside AutoCAD.

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2007, 11:57:43 PM »
The pre-alpha version of the CAD interface can be downloaded using the following link:

http://download.yousendit.com/17D19078609D73CD

If the file does not download to your PC as setup.exe simply append .exe to the filename.

We highly recommend that you read through the Instructions (located along the left hand side of the screen) before attempting to use this software. Some, but not all of the instructions have video clips associated with them. To view them simply click the Show Me button located near the bottom of the screen.

This interface is unlike any CAD interface you've ever used,  thus the need to read how it works before actually trying to use it.  It is not intended for the part-time casual user. Like all new software programs it will take time to learn so don't be discouraged if you don't get it right away.  The increase in productivity you will experience will far surpass the time you spend learning it.

This interface will not be everyone’s ‘Cup of Tea’.  At this point we are looking for ‘early adopters’ who can see the benefit of not needing to use menus, toolbars, and the command line to perform AutoCAD’s more common commands.

NOTE 1: The instructions are presented in a Step by Step format allowing you to do what they instruct you to do as you read through them.  If the instructions are unclear to you… please view the associated video clip.

NOTE 2: This application requires a mouse with scroll button. Additionally, you may need to adjust your mouse's double-click rate.

NOTE 3: Since this is the pre-alpha version of the software… there are going to be bugs.  Should one occur while you are working… note that the system WILL NOT notify you when they occur.  Instead, you will be presented with an e-mail containing specifics about the bug(s) when you exit the program.  Please take the time to send the Bug Report on to us.

NOTE 4: This CAD interface is built on a patent pending technology called 'Task Interaction Pattern Recognition'. In order for it to function correctly it must learn about your mouse interaction techniques. You will need to complete a interaction test before you can use the software.

Enjoy….
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 09:22:51 AM by gmyroup »

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2007, 09:34:15 AM »
The pre-alpha version of the CAD software can be downloaded using the following link:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dkOGNTSWU3bUEwTVE9PQ 


If the file does not download to your PC as setup.exe simply append .exe to the filename.

We highly recommend that you read through the Instructions (located along the left hand side of the screen) before attempting to use this software. Some, but not all of the instructions have video clips associated with them. To view them simply click the Show Me button located near the bottom of the screen.

The interface is unlike any CAD software you've ever used,  thus the need to read how it works before actually trying to use it.  It is not intended for the part-time casual user. Like all new software programs it will take time to learn so don't be discouraged if you don't get it right away.  The increase in productivity you will experience will far surpass the time you spend learning it.

This interface will not be everyone’s ‘Cup of Tea’.  At this point we are looking for ‘early adopters’ who can see the benefit of not needing to use menus, toolbars, and the command line to perform AutoCAD’s more common commands.

NOTE 1: The instructions are presented in a Step by Step format allowing you to do what they instruct you to do as you read through them.  If the instructions are unclear to you… please view the associated video clip.

NOTE 2: This application requires a mouse with scroll button. Additionally, you may need to adjust your mouse's double-click rate.

NOTE 3: Since this is the pre-alpha version of the software… there are going to be bugs.  Should one occur while you are working… note that the system WILL NOT notify you when they occur.  Instead, you will be presented with an e-mail containing specifics about the bug(s) when you exit the program.  Please take the time to send the Bug Report on to us.

NOTE 4: This CAD interface is built on a patent pending technology called 'Task Interaction Pattern Recognition'. In order for it to function correctly it must learn about your mouse interaction techniques. You will need to complete a interaction test before you can use the software.

Enjoy….
 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 09:32:12 AM by gmyroup »

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2007, 10:22:14 AM »
If you downloaded the software and experienced an issue with the Interaction Test feature... please download the file again using the updated link below:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dlak8rK3hOQncwTVE9PQ
« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 12:45:38 PM by gmyroup »

Mark

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2007, 10:57:40 AM »
Quote
NOTE 3: Since this is the pre-alpha version of the software… there are going to be bugs.  Should one occur while you are working… note that the system WILL NOT notify you when they occur.  Instead, you will be presented with an e-mail containing specifics about the bug(s) when you exit the program.  Please take the time to send the Bug Report on to us.

Can you explain this a little more? How am I "presented" with an e-mail, does the program gather e-mail address information during installation?
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gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2007, 11:08:55 AM »
Quote
NOTE 3: Since this is the pre-alpha version of the software… there are going to be bugs.  Should one occur while you are working… note that the system WILL NOT notify you when they occur.  Instead, you will be presented with an e-mail containing specifics about the bug(s) when you exit the program.  Please take the time to send the Bug Report on to us.

Can you explain this a little more? How am I "presented" with an e-mail, does the program gather e-mail address information during installation?


What happens is this.  If the program encounters error while you are working it writes the error to a local database table. When you exit the program it checks if there are any 'un-reported errors'.  If there are... the application will attempt to use your default e-mail client... create a message... display the message... and wait for you to send it on.

The message we receive from you would contain info about the error and nothing else.  The application DOES NOT gather system or application data from your PC.

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2007, 11:17:10 AM »
To those interested in learning more about the interface before downloading it... I will be posting a link to a short demostration video clip on Monday morning.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 12:11:42 PM by gmyroup »

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2007, 11:18:17 AM »
To those interested in learning more about the interface before downloading it... I will be post a link to a short demostration video clip on Monday morning.

quamper

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2007, 02:23:17 PM »
I'm playing with the Demo.. it's pretty interesting so far from what I can tell. I'll post more thoughts once I get the hang of it a bit more

Crank

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2007, 02:33:52 PM »
For what version of Autocad is this?
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ronjonp

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2007, 02:49:50 PM »
For what version of Autocad is this?

It is stand-alone.

Windows 11 x64 - AutoCAD /C3D 2023

Custom Build PC

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2007, 09:59:40 AM »
Hi folks.... I just wanted to explain the 'stand-alone' version.

This version... the pre-alpha version was actually created for 2 reasons.

The first was to prove CAD without menus, toolbars, etc. could be done... and work.  After 3 years of development and testing, we've proved the idea is truly viable and does work. 

The second reason was to determine user acceptance of the concept and that is where we are now.  The interface (or lack of) is unlike anything else in the market.  While the interface works well... and is fast... and productive.. and maybe most importantly.. actually fun to use,  some new ideas are just TOO different for the general user community... even though they actually greatly improve productivity.

If we find that there is enough acceptance from the user community... we will then dedicate the resources ($$$) necessary to port it over to AutoCAD... as an add-in that'll work within AutoCAD itself and hopefully other CAD and drawing applications as well. 

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2007, 11:25:23 AM »
Hello...

Here are a few videos showing the CAD interface in use.  I will be posting additional videos throughout the day.

The videos are avi files.  We recommend that you view them with the Camtasia Video viewer. It can be downloaded using the following link:

    http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmNnFKbWdtNEkwTVE9PQ     (approx 283k)

45 sec. video of a multi-pane window being drawn:   http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmNnFBdWNEbUkwTVE9PQ

7 min video of a structural steel stair detail:   http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmNnFITWNCMTQwTVE9PQ

Small mechanical component....  http://download.yousendit.com/D9B3FAE86BD57E62

How we draw arcs:   http://download.yousendit.com/60040FC542E768E5

...and circles:   http://download.yousendit.com/86EEBF6E4688E69D



... more to come
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 08:52:51 PM by gmyroup »

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2007, 12:50:25 PM »
Hello...

Here are a few videos showing the CAD interface in use.  I will be posting additional videos throughout the day.

The videos are avi files.  We recommend that you view them with the Camtasia Video viewer. It can be downloaded using the following link:

    http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmNnFKbWdtNEkwTVE9PQ     (approx 283k)

45 sec. video of a multi-pane window being drawn:   http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmNnFBdWNEbUkwTVE9PQ

7 min video of a structural steel stair detail:   http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmNnFITWNCMTQwTVE9PQ

Small mechanical component....  http://download.yousendit.com/D9B3FAE86BD57E62

How we draw arcs:   http://download.yousendit.com/60040FC542E768E5

...and circles:   http://download.yousendit.com/86EEBF6E4688E69D



... more to come
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 08:54:15 PM by gmyroup »

TR

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2007, 12:54:33 PM »
Perhaps you might consider posting them to youtube instead of downloadable avi files.

CADaver

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2007, 10:06:33 PM »
Is anyone besides me finding this a royal PITB??

uncoolperson

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2007, 12:06:51 AM »
Is anyone besides me finding this a royal PITB??

yeah, but i also see it could go some cool places.... as soon as i figure out how to not draw an arc/square when i want to draw a line...

although it probably will be something that is only worthwhile in a few situations (like microstation, or autocad electrical) not saying it's not neat(it is... feels like legos), just that it will probably very likely only be of use to a small handful of people.

hendie

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2007, 05:13:01 AM »
there's just too many unanswered questions for me...

For something so "revolutionary" I would have thought that there would have been a website proclaiming the products virtues, complete with video and reams of text and snappy groovy pictures. I just find it a bit curious that there isn't a website devoted to this product and yet it's being touted on several forums. Even the videos are being posted on yousendit. It all seems a bit amateurish and certainly not very professional.

and the biggest question.. why on earth would I throw away all the customisation that got my total drawing time down from '2 hours plus' down to 3 -4 minutes ?

and what about the double posting ?

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2007, 08:04:09 AM »
The website is currently being developed...  I have to agree with you about it being a bit amateurish and certainly not very professional but please keep this is mind... we are truely in the proof of concept stage.

While it would be great having a nifty website with all the bells and whistles you speak of... it is much more important that we start to gauge user acceptance... what is good about the interface... what isn't... what is easy for the user to grasp... and what isn't. Having a great website WILL NOT sell the product if the product isn't good to begin with.

Being a mechanical designer and drafter for 15 years prior to becoming a developer, I had used many CAD packages and knew the interface could be easier.. even more fun to use.

We are looking for feedback from those open minded enough to even try something new in the hope that it could make a significant amount of the more common drafting task more productive WITHOUT having to create additional functions themselves.

I appreciate your frankness... your commentary is what I am looking for though something more positive would be better.... LOL

Thanks


Maverick®

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2007, 08:28:45 AM »
  IMHO it might be beneficial to get out right now that you are not trying to sell something at this point.  I know you have just said in more than one post that you are looking for feedback.  That is great and I believe you will find some input here if that is indeed all you are looking for.  I have mostly just been lurking in your threads up to this point and I have to say it comes across as a sales pitch. 

  Possibly instead of telling everyone how great it is and making claims to production increases, you could phrase it differently.  " I have this project that I have started on that I believe could be really great. I am looking for some constructive criticism and feedback from some unbiased users to help me understand if it is a worthwhile project.  Any input that I can get is greatly appreciated"

  Enthusiasm in a project is great and can really keep one motivated.  Sometimes projecting that can come across as...... The guy at the Carnival luring you into the tent.

  Again...... Just an opinion.

  Also... as a mod...... Could we get this into one thread in one forum?  Double posting is not really productive and generally frowned upon.

  With that.... Good luck gmyroup.  I can admire someone at least trying to do something, anything,  instead of shooting everyone else down.

 

Maverick®

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2007, 09:28:56 AM »
 O.k....  With the help of the OP I have merged this topic.  Now lets get on with the show!!

  Thanks folks, move along, no need to push....  :-D

Mark

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2007, 09:30:19 AM »
O.k....  With the help of the OP I have merged this topic.

Thank you. :-)
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gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2007, 09:34:21 AM »
  IMHO it might be beneficial to get out right now that you are not trying to sell something at this point.  I know you have just said in more than one post that you are looking for feedback.  That is great and I believe you will find some input here if that is indeed all you are looking for.  I have mostly just been lurking in your threads up to this point and I have to say it comes across as a sales pitch. 

  Possibly instead of telling everyone how great it is and making claims to production increases, you could phrase it differently.  " I have this project that I have started on that I believe could be really great. I am looking for some constructive criticism and feedback from some unbiased users to help me understand if it is a worthwhile project.  Any input that I can get is greatly appreciated"

  Enthusiasm in a project is great and can really keep one motivated.  Sometimes projecting that can come across as...... The guy at the Carnival luring you into the tent.

  Again...... Just an opinion.

  Also... as a mod...... Could we get this into one thread in one forum?  Double posting is not really productive and generally frowned upon.

  With that.... Good luck gmyroup.  I can admire someone at least trying to do something, anything,  instead of shooting everyone else down.

 

Thanks for the help... I believe you may be correct... Apparently I am not getting the message across... that it is simply proof of concept... not yet a commercial product.

 At this point all I'm looking for is a few dedicated users who see the benefit of my interface.  I appreciate any help people at the Swamp can offer.

ELOQUINTET

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2007, 08:57:07 AM »
like someone said before this may be useful for someone who does architecture drafting but i do shop drawings that are very trade specific and our office is heavily customized to suite our needs already. i think it would take alot of tweaking to make this useful to us. i didn't try it but only watched the videos though. maybe i'll install it later and let you know if i have anymore thoughts

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2007, 10:11:09 AM »
Good morning...

The interface is designed to make basic drafting and detailing functions for all disciplines more productive.

In regards to existing customization you may have implemented... when we convert the standalone app into an AutoCAD add-in... you will be able to use the current AutoCAD interface you have setup (including all customization) or our interface (where there is no visible interface to speak of... are we confused yet?)

The standalone version you will be looking at is for proving the concept as well as helping us expose software bugs all pre-alpha software will have.

Please take a look around the actual program to truely get a feel of what is it capable of doing.

NOTE: I will be posting a link to the latest version of the software later today.

Thanks

Maverick®

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2007, 10:38:51 AM »
you will be able to use the current AutoCAD interface you have setup (including all customization) or our interface (where there is no visible interface to speak of... are we confused yet?)
 

  In a word... yes.  Though maybe I'm the only one.

Throwing an opinion out there again......

 Do you have some kind of "readme" made up for this?  Something with an overview or outline of what it is your program does or what you want it to do?  I think you would get more feedback if you told people what this is supposed to do instead of saying "watch the video and be amazed".

  Does it eliminate command line?  Does it eliminate toolbars, etc.? Does it use mouse gestures instead of the above?  Can it cook fish indoors without that nasty smell?

  Say what it does. Explain the concept. And then offer examples.

  If I developed a new kind of knife with a cool handle and a blade that never dulled.  But all I showed you was a picture of cut up tomatoes.  You would not get much of how superduperubercool it is.

 I know you're looking for feedback on your program.  I just think you need to add a step in there to get some users to try it.  It's a busy world.  People are selective on what they spend their time on.

  Again, just an opinion.   ;-)

 

Mark

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2007, 11:15:27 AM »
Look at "additional options" when posting a new message.
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gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2007, 01:39:01 PM »
Here’s a little bit about our interface and how it works…

For the most part the interface (in the standalone, pre-alpha version) appears to the user as a large, blank drawing area (See image below) with menus and toolbars obviously missing. 

When installed as an AutoCAD add-in however, the interface will look like the user’s normal AutoCAD screen… with all menus and toolbars (associated customization included) visible and available for the user to use. This is the beauty of the interface… you can use it whenever you want while having all of AutoCAD’s existing functionality available as well.

To use our interface to create and edit entities WITHOUT using menus, toolbars, and the command line… the user must activate a ‘TASK MODE’ by pressing the key associated with the general task they wish to accomplish.  There are 4 TASK MODES that the user can work in…. Create, Alter (modify), Transform, and Annotate. They are activated using the following keys:

    Create = Ctrl key
    Alter = Alt key
    Transform = Shift key
    Annotate = Tab key

Once the user activates a particular TASK MODE it remains active until the user invokes a different TASK MODE or interacts with AutoCAD’s interface. The user must then use the pointing device (mouse, stylus, etc) to execute the pre-defined interaction pattern associated with the command they wish to execute. 

For example… if the user wants to draw 1 or more lines… the Create TASK MODE must be active. The user then picks points on the screen to draw the line(s). To terminate the line drawing action the user simply right-clicks or presses the Crtl key and they are ready to draw another entity. 

If they want to draw a circle using the Center Point > Diameter method, the user double-clicks the circle center point and then picks a point to define the circle diameter. If they wanted to draw the circle at a specific diameter… they would double-click the center point… enter the circle diameter in the Interpreter (See Image below) and press the ENTER key.

To draw an arc using the Center Point > Start Angle > End Angle method, the user simply double-clicks the arc center point… picks a point to define the arc radius/start angle… and picks a point defining the end angle. Had they wanted to draw the arc at a specific radius… they would need to enter the radius prior to picking a point defining the start angle.


Modifying or altering entities is simple and intuitive.  Lets say the user wants to extend the endpoint of an existing line.  If the active TASK MODE is not the Alter mode… the user must press the Alt key in order to activate it. They would then pick the endpoint of the line they wish extend … and then pick the point to extend it to.

Likewise, if they wanted to extend the endpoint to an existing entity… they would pick the endpoint of the line they wish extend … and then pick the entity they wish to extend it to.

To extend 2 entities to meet at their intersection… they would drag from 1 entity dragging to the other entity.  If they wanted to filet the 2 entities they would need to enter the fillet radius in the Interpreter prior to dragging from 1 entity to the other.

As you can see, it’s how the user interacts with the computer (using the mouse and keyboard) while working in a particular TASK MODE that determines what they are trying to do.  The amount of user interaction is reduced to the absolute bare minimum since they do not need to identify what they want to do before doing it.  It allows you to work almost as fast as you think.

As in any software application… to be truly productive the user must first learn it.  Our interface is no different… it must be learned in order to be productive and since it must be learned… it is not intended for the part-time, casual user. 

You can download a copy of the pre-alpha version using the following link:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dlak8rK3hOQncwTVE9PQ


« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 12:44:37 PM by gmyroup »

ELOQUINTET

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2007, 02:34:45 PM »
I developed a new kind of knife with a cool handle and a blade that never dulled.   

You developed a knife, can I see it.

ELOQUINTET

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2007, 02:52:17 PM »
how do you initially specify what type of object it would create, a line, a circle, a camel etc. it seems that by the time you select which mode you need to be in, what type of objects you want to create and define say the diameter for example i could have picked a (macro) button and a center point and i'm done. if i'm correct that is 4 clicks versus 2 no. for me anything i do on a regular basis i have developed a shorter way of doing in. we have custom programs with dialogue boxes and we just input dimensions and it draws all of the objects for us automatically. this may be useful in some instances for certain people but i can't see it beating the automated programs we have and not useful enough to pay for.

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2007, 03:08:35 PM »
Great question Dan...

how do you initially specify what type of object it would create, a line, a circle, a camel etc.

A camel???  I don't think we've covered that... seriously, thats the beauty of the system... you don't need to specify what type of object you wish to create. How you use the mouse while in the CREATE mode tells the system what you are wanting to create.

As I noted in my previous post... to create a circle you simply double-click the center point and pick another point to define the diameter or enter the diameter and press ENTER.  If you're already working in the CREATE mode... you only need to perform 2 interactions. If you working in another mode you would need to press the Ctrl key first... so in that case it would be 3 interactions.

So at the worst the number of interactions is no greater than the 3 you must perform to draw a circle using your marco button.  And in most cases... you're creating 1 or more entities.




CADaver

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2007, 11:18:37 AM »
Okay, show of hands,
"How many of us still draw lines arcs and circles on a regular basis?" 
"How many of those that still do, plan on doing so three years from now?"

Speaking for me and mine, we draw darned few lines, and I haven't drawn a plain circle in years or an arc in decades, nor do I plan on doing so any time soon.  Even back when we did draw 2D lines, arcs, and circles, it was only a fraction of what we drew (that wasn't blocks or parametrically automated), and then we had it customized to control layers at the same time.

I have some questions:
1.)  How does this new "feature" help me in the 3D world, using solids, blocks, dynamic blocks, push-pull, etc.?
2.)  Where is this feature going in the next five years? How will it grow to meet new releases?
3.)  What is the learning curve for power users? What's the ROI?
4.)  How customizable is the interface?  Will I be able to bend it to how we work?
5.)  How well does the interface play with already heavily customized systems?
6.)  What's your target market, and just how much do you think that is of the total market?

gmyroup

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2007, 11:54:34 AM »
Okay, show of hands,
"How many of us still draw lines arcs and circles on a regular basis?"

If you look at numbers supplied by AutoDesk... you see that migration to their 3D products is not nearly as great as they would like it to be.  There are still manyof us out there that DO have need to create things using basic primitives.

"How many of those that still do, plan on doing so three years from now?"

As I cited above.. migration is not going well... its getting better but had you asked someone like yourself 5 years ago if Autodesk would still have 85% of their users still using 2D... 5 years from then... they probably would have 'No Way'

Speaking for me and mine, we draw darned few lines, and I haven't drawn a plain circle in years or an arc in decades, nor do I plan on doing so any time soon.  Even back when we did draw 2D lines, arcs, and circles, it was only a fraction of what we drew (that wasn't blocks or parametrically automated), and then we had it customized to control layers at the same time.

I have some questions:
1.)  How does this new "feature" help me in the 3D world, using solids, blocks, dynamic blocks, push-pull, etc.?

It doesn't help in the 3D world right now.  Please try to keep in mind that we are only looking for a few dedicated users to try out the concept...

2.)  Where is this feature going in the next five years? How will it grow to meet new releases?
3.)  What is the learning curve for power users? What's the ROI?
4.)  How customizable is the interface?  Will I be able to bend it to how we work?
5.)  How well does the interface play with already heavily customized systems?
6.)  What's your target market, and just how much do you think that is of the total market?

On Item#2... where will CAD be in 5 years? It could be entirely different in theory but you will always have many users who don't always update just because it a 'new' version.  Since the interface is actually no interface at all????? as long as there is need to create entities in whatever interface ACAD may have 5 years up the road... it will still work just fine

On Item#3... The learning curve is typical to any new way of doing something that is pretty night and day different from how they do it now... if someone sees the benefit of being able to create, edit, and transform entites nearly as fast as they think... it may take them a dedicated week to get the hang of it.  The ROI... well you figure it out.  If the interface improves... I mean TRUELY improves their productivity by even 10%... that means in return for the 40 hours spent learning the interface.. they would save 4 hours per week... times 51 weeks for the first year... 52 for each subsequent year. By saving 4 hours MINIMUM per week it would take 10 weeks for them to break even... everything beyond that is REAL savings.

On Items 4 & 5... like I said... since the interface is really not an interface at all... at least one you can see... so you can't customize it.  It works using a technology called 'Task Interaction Pattern Recognition'

The beauty of this whole concept is that it'll work nicely with your current system without requiring any modifications... and if we port the interface over to other CAD systems... you can be equally productive with any CAD system that supports add-ins.

daron

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Re: Alternative CAD Interfaces. Looking for feedback please.
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2007, 09:27:12 AM »
I've been looking into all sorts of software lately and have known about a 3d program, similar to MAX, Maya, etc., called Blender. I decided the other day to load it and see what it can do. Well, it is very difficult to learn how to do things without the tutorials, but one thing I learned by toying with some controls is that a selected object or objects can be moved, rotated, scaled, linked, etc. by using certain mouse gestures. For instance, if I pick the screen and move in a circular pattern, the object(s) will start to rotate. If I move in a linear pattern, they'll move or scale. This sounds like what gmyroup is looking at doing for 2d, but really, if it is similar to the blender controls, it sounds like it could work for 3d. Now, I'm not backing gmyroup's concept here, but the blender interface made me think of his concept. Good luck man.