Author Topic: In for a tough time  (Read 30328 times)

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Nathan Taylor

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2007, 04:34:32 PM »
And besides, We will call you a toy programmer if you decide to go with VB. :evil:

And not just behind your back...

That's alright I'll just call you elitist wankers.

jjs

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2007, 06:01:18 PM »
I was hoping not to taint your thinking, but I find C# to be less verbose and more expressive than VB.  You know I've done my share of VB, and I still use it from time to time, but I don't miss things like "Dim i as Integer" or "Function foo(ByRef val as Double) as Double" when I'm coding in languages with C-like syntax.  I vastly prefer "Int i = 0;" and "double foo(double& val)."

I know those are only small things, but there are other little bits of syntactic sugar that, when taken in concert, make C# feel more elegant and concise than VB to me.
Learning all new syntax is quite a big undertaking. The VB.net syntax is more familiar to me already so I would have to have a good reason to make the switch. How similar is the C# syntax to C++? If they are very similar, then making the switch would be beneficial in that I would learn C++ syntax as well. That for me would be a reason to switch and might justify making the switch, because eventually I would like to learn C++. Still want to know why Kerry thinks C# is better.

Being called a toy programmer would not bother me a bit. Been one of those all my programming life. But I am also able to use my toy programming abilities to earn a living. So I like being a toy programmer.

TR

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2007, 06:08:35 PM »
Also, if I can take reflector and change my vb.net code into c# code. How can one be better than the other, especially when I know most of the syntax for the one? Hard cold facts would be appreciated. Name calling does not help me make an informed choice.
I don't see where I said C# was a better language than VB.NET. If you ask me they're both crap.

TR

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2007, 06:12:41 PM »
How similar is the C# syntax to C++? If they are very similar, then making the switch would be beneficial in that I would learn C++ syntax as well. That for me would be a reason to switch and might justify making the switch, because eventually I would like to learn C++.
This may help you out.

TR

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2007, 06:19:25 PM »
Why don't you try a little experiment?  Code up something small but useful in VB.NET, and then use Reflector to convert it to C#.  Then study the C# code side-by-side with the VB code, and try to make some judgments as to which language seems more expressive to you.

On second thought, I'm not sure that's such a great idea.  You would probably get C# code that employed VB coding techniques instead of more organic looking C#.  It probably wouldn't be very helpful in the end.  Maybe instead you could post something small, written in VB, and let one (or more) of the C# gurus rewrite it in C# for you to study.  I'd be willing to convert anything sufficiently trivial, but I'm definitely not one of the most experienced C# programmers here.

By the way, Kerry thinks C# rules and VB drools. :D
I'd be willing to convert the application to boo. Perhaps it may be "less verbose and more expressive". :)

Kerry

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2007, 06:49:51 PM »
Quote from: sinc
Does anyone have interest in creating a Swamp.NET library?
I would be interested. I'm no C# programmer but if I could some of the basics behind me and actually create something useful then I'm sure my time spent learning and using C# would increase.


I've been tossing this idea around for a while.
I think that a solution better suited to developing participation in the forums here would be to encourage the posting of workable self contained examples { including the includes and a list of references }. There is currently nowhere that has the same potential as this place. Having players come back to share their experiences is going to assist us all more, I'm sure, without putting the onus on one person to update a library .. as generous as that offer is !

I'd like to think that the forum could be full of "look what I did" posts rather than "I need this Help urgently" posts ... though the latter does sometimes get the juices flowing :-)

just my 2c.

 
 
kdub, kdub_nz in other timelines.
Perfection is not optional.
Everything will work just as you expect it to, unless your expectations are incorrect.
Discipline: None at all.

Kerry

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2007, 06:57:37 PM »
.... Please do share.

Personally I felt inaquate seeing and typing 'Dim' so often ..

seriousy I have no cares what anyone uses, it's just that I can see the potential for a lot of grief when people try to translate vb/vba code to VB.NET. Seems more sensible to make the shift, mental and procedural ...

added:
I know that the argument can be made about translating VB/Vba to C# will be just as difficult, but at least nothing will be taken for granted, which is where I see the real problem ... assumptions are a killer.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 07:10:16 PM by Kerry Brown »
kdub, kdub_nz in other timelines.
Perfection is not optional.
Everything will work just as you expect it to, unless your expectations are incorrect.
Discipline: None at all.

Glenn R

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2007, 06:59:18 PM »
Good points Kerry.

A couple of mine own:

1. More of MS's effort *appears* to be behind C# - the reason: To attract the C++ crowd.
2. Because of 1. above, C# has always had more features and 'syntactic sugar' than VB.net has - operator overloading anyone?
3. C# and VB.net certainly DO NOT compile to the same IL code in some circumstances.
4. The syntax for C# was derived from C/C++/Java, so learning it's syntax will definately help you if you want to study some of the others.
5. There are still features available only to C# - iterators and yield I believe.

I'm definately with Chuck on this one.

Cheers,
Glenn.

Chuck Gabriel

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2007, 07:17:13 PM »
... Perhaps it may be "less verbose and more expressive". :)

As the original copyright owner of that phrase, I'd be willing to license it to you for a nominal sum. :-p

Kerry

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2007, 07:21:31 PM »
.... Please do share.

... and this one may sound weird, but who cares ..

I find that when reading C# code the Curley braces let be breathe .. take a breath between paragraphs and sentences ... have a natural pause between thoughts.  With VB I seem to be holding my breath trying to get through it.

again, my personal inadequacy :-)
kdub, kdub_nz in other timelines.
Perfection is not optional.
Everything will work just as you expect it to, unless your expectations are incorrect.
Discipline: None at all.

Nathan Taylor

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2007, 07:29:05 PM »
.... Please do share.

Personally I felt inaquate seeing and typing 'Dim' so often ..

seriousy I have no cares what anyone uses, it's just that I can see the potential for a lot of grief when people try to translate vb/vba code to VB.NET. Seems more sensible to make the shift, mental and procedural ...

added:
I know that the argument can be made about translating VB/Vba to C# will be just as difficult, but at least nothing will be taken for granted, which is where I see the real problem ... assumptions are a killer.
The potential for alot of grief certainly has not been relised in my case. The only grief I have had is a lack AutoCAD .NET API documentation.

Glenn R

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2007, 07:34:29 PM »
I'm getting really tired of the 'lack of documentation' quotes...it's all there if you want to find it and know how to interpret it - others have done it and are doing it.

Nathan Taylor

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2007, 07:41:29 PM »
I'm getting really tired of the 'lack of documentation' quotes...it's all there if you want to find it and know how to interpret it - others have done it and are doing it.

I am doing it. I seem to be asking for a lot less help than a lot of other people.

Compare documentation and the fact is it isn't as well documented as the other API's.

In my real experience with VB.NET the lack of documentaion has been my biggest grief but yes I can overcome it.

Glenn R

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2007, 07:49:36 PM »
Are you talking about the VB.NET documentation itself or AutoCAD .NET documentation? As far as I'm concerned, the Microsoft Visual Studio Documentation and Platform SDK documentation are excellent.

ARX isn't as well 'documented' as the other API's in a certain lightl, because, it's an advanced topic and the docs assume an advanced level of reader from the start, if that makes sense. However, all the API calls are there and the acad .net implemenation just wraps those.

Kerry

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Re: In for a tough time
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2007, 07:53:26 PM »
Are you talking about the VB.NET documentation itself or AutoCAD .NET documentation? As far as I'm concerned, the Microsoft Visual Studio Documentation and Platform SDK documentation are excellent.

ARX isn't as well 'documented' as the other API's in a certain lightl, because, it's an advanced topic and the docs assume an advanced level of reader from the start, if that makes sense. However, all the API calls are there and the acad .net implemenation just wraps those.


yes.

and this is where the topic started  .. anyone aiming to develop in .NET has to do some serious study/investigation/reading/GestaltLeaps to be effective.
Cut and Paste VB/VBA code into VB.NET will not do it !

 
kdub, kdub_nz in other timelines.
Perfection is not optional.
Everything will work just as you expect it to, unless your expectations are incorrect.
Discipline: None at all.