Topic: 3d Studio Max help

[Josh Nieman]

Man, I feel like I'm either a whiner, know-nothing, a busybody... or all of the above, heh.

I had a request by a company that contracted us to do a structural design.  They want us to supply a 'purdah piktur' rendering.  I am tired of rendering in Autocad, and although I feel I have gotten some pretty drawn good results thus far for what vanilla Autocad has to offer, I downloaded the free trial of 3ds Max in hopes of learning a new skill that may, sometime, propagate into a useful addition to my repertoire. 

Below is my first attempt at a rendering.  My environmental skills... are uh.. *cough* lacking..  

I was wondering if anyone has some default template settings or environment templates they could share and (more importantly) explain to me.

Or if there are some GOOD sites out there with tutorials.  I ran into the problem of finding sites with more than just 14 year old warez-kiddies who want to know how to get the nipples right on their poser modeled naked woman.  Those well spoken sites that I did find were more character oriented, or had specific tutorials such as how to get hair to lay right, how to get the tread on a bicycle tire to render properly, how to show a still of fountain water gushing...etc... nothing too GENERAL that made me go "dang I'm glad I found this text"

Any help out there for a poor soul?

Any general tips/suggestions/words of advice?  Maybe a better program for seldom-use in rendering Autocad models if I'm mistaken in using Max?

*edit*  Helps if I attach the image..... */edit*

[hendie]

if you're looking for a quick start. I woudl begin with one of the sample files.. there are a couple of ocean scenes which are fantastic looking... use one of those and merge your model into it.

In your model however, you want to increase the values for the UVW map on the ocean, and I would get rid of the shadow. Pick a much lighter sky background (or make the ocean darker) as the two don't match. Also, the horizon looks false.
Lighting is by far the most critical aspect of getting your model looking good. You can have all the materials mapped and looking great, but if the lighting ain't right, the whole model never looks right.
I know this won't help, but with Max, it really is a trial and error process and you learn as you go (slowly at times).
I tried following all sorts of tutorials but while you will learn some useful information about techniques, getting the picture right takes experience and you just cannae download that I'm afraid.

There are other programs but I find Max excellent but I guess it's all personal preference. I would stick with Max though (I use Viz here at work, though I used Max in the past)
You could try 3dcafe, they have some decent tutorials.

If I can help any more, let me know

[Dilbert]

A forum I enjoy is the VIZdepot...  many helpful individuals are there.

http://www.vizdepot.com/

[Josh Nieman]

Thanks for the support, I appreciate it.  I realize my whole scene is absolute rubbish.  I've since fixed the material quite  a bit much how you described.

I don't mind trial and error-ing to figure out a program... I am basically self taught with Autocad, I credit very little to my education, and 3d was 100% self-taught in the exact same "trial and error" method.  So I'll keep on truckin'!

Thanks for the tip on the default scenes.  When I get back to work I'll definitely be looking into that... I didn't think about that.. seems like a no brainer   I'll be sure to see what I can get from it.

I think this will be good fun and a great skill that will benefit my work and ambitions a lot!

[hendie]

Another thing I would suggest is to open some of the sample files, render them to see what they look like then start making small adjustments to things like mapping and lighting and re-render each time to see how it affects the scene

[Josh Nieman]

Another thing I would suggest is to open some of the sample files, render them to see what they look like then start making small adjustments to things like mapping and lighting and re-render each time to see how it affects the scene

I was unable to locate any sample scenes for ocean settings, but the help file had good step-by-steps for using the Ocean(lume) texture to simulate the ocean surface when applied like a bump map would be.

That and using the mental ray sun and sky tools I made an acceptable (to me) scene to place my model in.

One thing that I can't seem to figure out is why my cylinders are coming out faceted, as you'll see in the linked image below (warning, it's a little big)

http://www.theswamp.org/lilly_pond/JoshNieman/WC%2062-A.png

[Josh Nieman]

crap... apperantly forgot to save alpha channel, as the sky isn't present... oh well

[Maverick®]

That ocean texture looks great Josh!  I have never used max but from rendering in the program I use the only tips I can give you is it is usually best to have the light source behind and just to the right or left of the camera.  Also placing the light at approx. 50' to 60' above the structure.


  I could look up the ambient light, Brightness, decay settings etc. also but I think they would be more specific to my program and I don't know if you even have those settings.

  HTH

[Josh Nieman]

http://www.theswamp.org/lilly_pond/JoshNieman/WC62-A%20Phase%203.png

I got the smoothing thing fixed... when I imported the latest dwg model I noticed the auto-smooth settings and weld settings were very roughly set... that worked wonders afterwards...

Aside from some layering problems upon importing (equipment on the painted-steel layer, piping not on piping layer, tanks on steel layer... etc...) I'm pretty happy with the result!

Helpful tips provided great support and motivation... thanks to you guys

Oh, and Maverick: I actually used nothing but the mental ray Sun and Sky setting for lighting... worked like a charm... you tell it where on earth it's at, what time of year and day, and whammo.  I had more luck with that than when I tried my own lighting methods.  Makes it very easy.... oh and offtopic... I named my first son Maverick Joseph Nieman, but don't get your ego too inflated... we decided on the name before I ever found theSwamp

[Maverick®]

I'm pretty happy with the result!

Looks great!

Oh, and Maverick: I actually used nothing but the mental ray Sun and Sky setting for lighting... worked like a charm... you tell it where on earth it's at, what time of year and day, and whammo.  I had more luck with that than when I tried my own lighting methods.  Makes it very easy.

  The only problem I have had with doing that is when the house is facing  a particularly bad direction.  The rendering looks like crap because...... well that's the way the light will be.  Sorta.

  Cool thing in SP....  I can do an animation "sun study" of the house over a day or a year.  It shows the way the shadows will move around the house etc.  Not particularly useful unless I want to show them a part of the roof /sidewalk/driveway that won't get any sun so the snow won't melt etc..  The wow factor for people is nice though.

 
 I named my first son Maverick Joseph Nieman, but don't get your ego too inflated... we decided on the name before I ever found theSwamp

  Hopefully he doesn't look like my avatar. 

[Maverick®]

BTW...... Could I get a copy of that water texture?  That is awesome.

[Josh Nieman]

BTW...... Could I get a copy of that water texture?  That is awesome.

I'd be more than willing to, but it's not an image texture, surprisingly enough.  One thing I discovered to my amazement was Max's bump map types..  It's actually just a "Ocean (lume) " material type that has extra options for wave height min and max, center of waves, roughness of seas, gloss of water, and a whole slew of other options for animations... it's uncanny, really... it's just a material map!  Crazy...

My main regret is that this is just a TRIAL of 3dsmax   I don't think it's in the best interest of the company to pay for a seat of 3dsmax... but... who knows, maybe if we talk to the reseller, they'll get us a good deal on a package or it with our subscription renewals... *fingers crossed*

This is a crazy-fun program to learn!!  My next goal is to start with some of these 'particles' type objects to try and create a billowing fire coming from the vent boom, or animate the ocean water.

[Cavediver]

Oh, and Maverick: I actually used nothing but the mental ray Sun and Sky setting for lighting... worked like a charm... you tell it where on earth it's at, what time of year and day, and whammo.  I had more luck with that than when I tried my own lighting methods.  Makes it very easy....

If you want a good resource for rendering, check out Digital Lighting and Rendering by Jeremy Birn.  It's sort of a generic reference for staging and lighting rendering scenes.  Also, check out the eye candy at his web site. 

[Bob]

Love the render. Looks great

[Josh Nieman]

Oh, and Maverick: I actually used nothing but the mental ray Sun and Sky setting for lighting... worked like a charm... you tell it where on earth it's at, what time of year and day, and whammo.  I had more luck with that than when I tried my own lighting methods.  Makes it very easy....

If you want a good resource for rendering, check out Digital Lighting and Rendering by Jeremy Birn.  It's sort of a generic reference for staging and lighting rendering scenes.  Also, check out the eye candy at his web site. 

DAAAAAAANnnnnnnnggg.... With how much progress I've made in only a handful of lunch breaks' time... I really want to take a formal class and see what this program can REALLY do.