Author Topic: Bending a plate  (Read 12243 times)

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BUMBLEBEE

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Bending a plate
« on: January 11, 2007, 05:30:30 PM »
Anyone know how to model the attached plate (formed) in plain Autocad 2005?
Any and all help appreciated.

Dommy2Hotty

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2007, 05:32:27 PM »
draw the side profile and extrude it?

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2007, 05:37:38 PM »
That's the easy part. After I extrude it, I can't get the slice at the side to come out correctly.

CADaver

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2007, 05:47:31 PM »
Build it flat, then slice at the bend lines.  Rotate the ucs to the right side and rotate tthe ends to the angles required.

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2007, 05:58:15 PM »
I tried that too. Had trouble with the fillets.

CADaver

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2007, 05:59:59 PM »
What trouble?

Post dims.

CADaver

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2007, 06:05:43 PM »
That's the easy part. After I extrude it, I can't get the slice at the side to come out correctly.
if the UNFOLDED plan view has a constant angle on one side, then when folded the angles will be different at each plane.

Keith™

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2007, 07:05:27 PM »
The thickness of the plate will make some difference. However, a simple solution would be to model the resulting shape with the fillets in place, then slice the object at the appropriate angles .. you will need 3 different slices to ge it correct.
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CADaver

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2007, 07:47:03 AM »
The thickness of the plate will make some difference. However, a simple solution would be to model the resulting shape with the fillets in place, then slice the object at the appropriate angles .. you will need 3 different slices to ge it correct.
sorta depends on the manufacturing process.  If its cut at the angle, then folded, the result is "compound" angles on the upturned edges and some distortion at the intersection of those edges and the middle edge. 

Kerry

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2007, 08:02:30 AM »
The  cut edge will be normal to the upper face, so it wont be too easy to get the corners perfect.

is this a one off or do you need a parametric method. ?

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SDETERS

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2007, 08:26:29 AM »
Can you supply a dwg for the dims

I can make 3d sat file if you want. 

« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 08:33:11 AM by SDETERS »

Josh Nieman

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2007, 08:31:07 AM »
The best thing to do in easy situations, imo, is as Randy said... draw it in the flat, then slice at bend lines, and fold yourself using rotate.

Depending on gage of material, type of process, quality of tooling and a hundred of things, your bend radius will change.

If this is 14ga or smaller, I'd say that in most cases it's safe to use the inside dimensions of the final part as your blank length.  That will give you the solid to draw flat... then cut and rotate about the bend line... then you can simply create a new solid of a quarter cylinder and union it to the parts at each bend, trimming where it looks good (who really cares what the bend corner edges looks like... you'll never get the compound angle right anyways, because depending on the material and manufacturer, it'll pooch out different anyways)

What I'm wondering is this... because I've seen it a hundred times in even my short time doing metal fab work and metal fab design.  After this is formed, do you want that angled side to form a nice planar surface?  Because it won't.

 Now, like I previously said; what Randy advised is best in easy situations where you know the blank.  What I'm thinking is best for you is to model the final part, and work exactly backwards from my first instruction.  With the model of the final part, slice away the corners (One horizontal slice and one vertical slice to remove the bend itself) so that you are left with plates that can be rotated back into the flat shape.

That will give you an ACCURATE blank of your part.

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2007, 08:59:56 AM »
Here is the part with the dimensions. I tried Cadaver's suggestion about slicing at the bend lines and rotating, but the fillets were a problem. I rotated at the neutral axis though. Maybe I should rotate at the face.

Sdeters, that would be great, I really need the part, though I would like to be able to model the part in acad2005 since I may have to do something similar in the future.

I will try the suggestions and post the results.

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2007, 09:06:09 AM »
I forgot to say that the plate is 3/8" thick.

Krushert

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2007, 09:27:03 AM »
I forgot to say that the plate is 3/8" thick.
[Start of wisecrack]
a mere piece of paper.
Try 1 1/4" thick HY100 plate 12'w by 40' long with different radii of curvature at each end of the plate. 
Try bending that baby in zero degree (f) day    :-)
[End of wisecrack]
Ooohh you guys are doing it in cad, and not bending the actual plate itself.
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Josh Nieman

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2007, 09:32:16 AM »
I forgot to say that the plate is 3/8" thick.

What is the drawing going to be used for?  Are you making a flat drawing to be cut and formed into a desired shape?  Are you just GIVEN the flat and told to form it in such ways?

That's MUCH more important that a simple problem modeling the fillets...

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2007, 09:50:17 AM »
It is an actual part to be used in a weldment. The piece itself has been made before from a 2D drawing. I am trying to model it in vanilla autocad and put everything into a 3D assembly. Really not required, but kind of nice to have. I have learned a lot from this site and figured that if it is possible to do the model, someone here would know how.

Josh Nieman

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2007, 10:13:41 AM »
It is an actual part to be used in a weldment. The piece itself has been made before from a 2D drawing. I am trying to model it in vanilla autocad and put everything into a 3D assembly. Really not required, but kind of nice to have. I have learned a lot from this site and figured that if it is possible to do the model, someone here would know how.

I gather from your info that you have the flat blank known, and the formed part is not so known, and that the fabricators just 'make it work' and it 'has worked for years' so it shouldn't change in their eyes.  I used to work for a place that had a lot of historical part designs that weren't great... they were something rigged up in the shop and then just made the same way ever since, just because it 'worked' but I want you to keep in mind that revising old parts can often lead to drastically reduced welding times and therefore costs.  Eliminating welding in any job will make the biggest difference.

With that said, I am attaching the following file.. it's not made to the dimensions you supplied, because... well it's just quicker to sketch the geometry for illustration's sake.  Look what I did each step, I copied the part over every time I used a command to show a 'step by step'

Without knowing the Inside Radius of your bend, though, I just made it as an impossibly tight bend... rotating the bend flanges right on the bend line... in reality the steel is going to stretch a surprising amount with a radius probably between 3/8" and 1/2" or even greater, depending on the dies used (if you're using a brake press... if you're torching and bending in a jig... it could be anything... if it's a folding machine... uh... dunno)

Let me know if you have any questions.

SDETERS

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2007, 10:47:53 AM »
Try this file

Please rename it to an sat extension from dxf  I can not upload sat files

Please tell me if you can open it or not

Thanks

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2007, 11:07:34 AM »
Josh: You didn't attach the file.

Sdeters: I was unable to open the file even after changing the extension.

SDETERS

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2007, 11:08:18 AM »
Crude did anybody else have any luck on opening the file?  Try this file  Please rename extension  to sat

I tried an early version of the sat translator

Thanks

« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 11:14:32 AM by SDETERS »

Josh Nieman

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2007, 11:25:33 AM »
Josh: You didn't attach the file.

Sdeters: I was unable to open the file even after changing the extension.

haha sorry... busy morning... here ye be

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2007, 11:58:24 AM »
Sorry Shane & Josh, I am unable to open either of your files. Not sure why.

Josh Nieman

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2007, 12:13:38 PM »
Sorry Shane & Josh, I am unable to open either of your files. Not sure why.

I think I forgot to save it down when I wblock'd out the stuff.

Here's an update.

Cavediver

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2007, 12:27:12 PM »
Crude did anybody else have any luck on opening the file?  Try this file  Please rename extension  to sat
I tried an early version of the sat translator
Thanks
It opened fine for me, so here's a .dwg file of that .sat

BUMBLEBEE

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2007, 12:36:46 PM »
Thanks Josh. I got it to open. I understand what you did and it seems to be the way to do it in autocad.

Thank you Sdeters (and Cavediver too).

Really appreciate the top notch and timely help. It seems to be the standard on this site.

Cavediver

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2007, 01:10:40 PM »
I played around with it in SolidWorks, but there were more variables in the settings than I know what to do with.  I wound up with some nice looking parts, but I have no idea if they were accurate.  At least I learned something new today.

Josh Nieman

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Re: Bending a plate
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2007, 11:55:22 AM »
I played around with it in SolidWorks, but there were more variables in the settings than I know what to do with.  I wound up with some nice looking parts, but I have no idea if they were accurate.  At least I learned something new today.

When I was using Solidworks in school, and when I was using the demo of a more current Solidworks and Inventor when my last company looked to me for advice on which to buy... I found Solidworks equaled Inventor in almost every way... it was 100% accurate, just as any Autocad drawing would be... as long as it's drawn right.  Yes, it's a more pictorial environment if you're not in 'sketch' mode (well... even if you are, somewhat) but it's nicer for designers that way.  You can better see reality and conflicts in a more natural way, I think.

Anyways... tangent over.