Poll

Should I invest the time to learn VBA instead of continuing with LISP?

Yes - VBA is the future.
No - LISP will be around and supported for 20 years at least.
No - C++ is the future.

Author Topic: Should I learn VBA?  (Read 3895 times)

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Craig Davis

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Should I learn VBA?
« on: January 06, 2007, 08:56:02 PM »
Now that we've switched to Civil3D at work I'm finding a lot of the old LISP programs I've written to manipulate or extract information from blocks etc. are not working due to the program change. I did do a VBA course a while ago but elected to stick with LISP due to time constraints at the time.

I've now started a new job and even busier, but I would like to try and increase the productivity more if I can. I'd also like to use dialogue boxes for a few of the programs (to remove those repetitive command line prompts) and VBA would be good for this I think.

Learning VBA will be a large investment of time (and a large strain on this site I'd think  :| ) so I want to make sure it's the right way to go. I'm 38 and worked with LISP for most of that time (I'm no expert just learnt enough to get me by).

I've heard C++ being mentioned in a few places, but this sounds to me to be more along the lines of commercially based programmers and would probably require a monetary investment to get into and maybe over kill.

So what do you think? Should I take the plunge into the new pond?

It's Alive!

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 09:02:11 PM »
IMO , If you can do .net with Civil3D, that would be the best choice.
Dan

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2007, 09:22:41 PM »
Lets see ...

I think you should learn VBA or some incarnation of it.

Why?

It will allow you to design better and more complete solutions ...
Of course I think you should also learn C# .net C++ python and perl ... (I hope nobody gets offended because I didn't mention their pet language)
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CAB

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 09:17:43 AM »
< Random thoughts >
Learning any new language is challenging & rewarding. 20 years is a Looong time.
VBA might be abandoned by then. I suspect LISP will live on as there are too many routines out there
and the users would complain too loudly if it were turned off completely. That doesn't mean you should
continue to develop routines in LISP if you plan on using them for the next 20 years. As you see the
dynamic blocks pose problems for the old routines. Your old LISP routine that don't work are likely a
victim of changing COMMAND arguments, so if you avoid using COMMAND in your routines there will
be less maintenance required in the future. It would be easier to fix the old routines than to learn a new
language & then rewrite the routines.
That said, doing so will expand your talents & would be fun ( & trying ) .
< /Random thoughts >
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LE

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 11:04:28 AM »
Now that we've switched to Civil3D at work I'm finding a lot of the old LISP programs I've written to manipulate or extract information from blocks etc. are not working due to the program change. I did do a VBA course a while ago but elected to stick with LISP due to time constraints at the time.

I've now started a new job and even busier, but I would like to try and increase the productivity more if I can. I'd also like to use dialogue boxes for a few of the programs (to remove those repetitive command line prompts) and VBA would be good for this I think.

Learning VBA will be a large investment of time (and a large strain on this site I'd think  :| ) so I want to make sure it's the right way to go. I'm 38 and worked with LISP for most of that time (I'm no expert just learnt enough to get me by).

I've heard C++ being mentioned in a few places, but this sounds to me to be more along the lines of commercially based programmers and would probably require a monetary investment to get into and maybe over kill.

So what do you think? Should I take the plunge into the new pond?

Here you can review what it is needed to manipulate or customize C3D:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=8007696

If your job description includes doing customizations, then I will recommend to learn more languages, not just one, it will make you more competitive.

Good luck.

Craig Davis

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 10:14:06 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.

One of the reasons I asked about the continued support of Autodesk is because over time I've had to amend old LISP programs to work with changes over the years and some of these programs have parts which I don't fully understand and find hard to correct (I've had a lot of help from this site with those). I'd prefer if I'm going to be putting time into learning that it was a program that will be well supported for years to come.

LE thanks for the link to the autodesk - development centre. I'll take a look in the help file and see what I can find. I never realised they had provided the Samples of the different code.

I know there is programming support in Civil3D for both LISP & VBA, are both C++ & .NET just an extension of VBA or is another program required to write these codes? Also I've always found great support in this forum. Would going towards these programs be steering away from this great resource?

Interesting times ahead.

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 10:23:50 PM »
I don't C3D, but I've been monitoring their discussion and Customisation Group for a while.

The recommendation from some writers associated with Autodesk has been to learn C#.

Jeff M may comment on this : he is extremely proficient with VLisp and VBA and is currently delving into C#.


added, ps: I never voted 'cause the options sort of 'beg the question'



« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 10:26:09 PM by Kerry Brown »
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Tramber

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 12:07:35 PM »
I use advanced Lisp, i.e. VisualLisp. And I got the feeling that it gives me exactly the same possibilities as VBA.
Vlisp used together with ODCL is even better than VBA, to my opinion.
Dealing with lists and changing whenever wanted the type of the variables is just great, VBA can't do it.

In Vlisp, you can do all what you do in VBA with a more easy way to deal with variables and lists.

This is why I would conclude with :

Do .NET or powerful techniques, not VBA !  :roll:

But damned, it is difficult to begin. It is 3 months that I'm still reading at books. Making a line in C++ takes me a day !

iliekater

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 02:39:17 PM »
That was funny ! DCL is better than VBA ! Well , no offense , I think you are sadist ! Day by day my old DCL projects are transformed into VBA projects and I have no regret about that (though I sometimes meiss how the DCL forms looked thanks to the slide controls ... snif  :oops:) .
Nowadays , almost all my commands are made in a combination of LISP and VBA and am happy about it !

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 02:48:26 PM »
After LISPing for 15 years, it took me forever to learn VBA, but not for the reasons you think.  My mind was so wrapped up in the way lisp worked, I wasn't learning how VBA worked.  Now, I hardly ever write in LISP, b/c I find VBA so much easier.

All that being said, I am now learning C# as well, which I am finding very easy b/c it is closely related to VBA in syntax. (Closely, not exact.  There are def finate differences)
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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 02:48:43 PM »
That was funny ! DCL is better than VBA !
He is talking about ObjectDCL, not plain DCL.  It is a third party app, that went open source a couple of months ago.
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iliekater

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 03:49:00 PM »
  Oh , I see , I'm sorry . I didn't pay attention . I know Object DCL and I was very excited when it was released . However , though I decided to use it in order to update my old DCL projects , at the end I decided not to do . You know why ? Well , my first version of Object DCl was downloaded simply by luck when I run onto it on a site . I went quicly to my home and try to use it , but i simply could not . Then I found out that the downloaded files (*.arx files) were not working with on my current version of AutoCAD becouse they were actually made for the 2000 version . Well , at the end I found and downloaded newer files of Object DCL that actually worked . But this fact put me into thoughts : what happens if , when the AutoCAD's version is changed again , noone updates the Object DCL's files ? Eee ? Well , I quess , the answer is that all code written in that language will be lost and useles .

Now , the above event , combined with a thought of mine (which I will describe you below) , make me add a few more lines in this topic as a response to CAB who said that LISP , unlike VBA , will keep existing becouse there are so many routines out there . He even said that there will be loud complains in the contrar event .
  Well ... let me tell you a terrible thought of mine ... And when I say terrible , I don't mean terrible , I mean TERRIBLE . In other words , horrible  :realmad: .
  So , sit well in your warm chair , inside your little warm house or wherever you are , let the lights on and listen to what I'll say :

  Once upon a time , on a land not far from here , there was great company that used to create great programs for CAD (Computer Aided Design) . Its name was AutoSOFT (like Autodesk , Microsoft - you get the point) . That company, sorry that great company , created a very popular drawing program , but above all , also created a powerfull tool with which many simple users could use it and create extra tools for the drawing application . The name of that powerful tool was VLA , which meant Visual Lisp for Applications and was also around on an even larger edition called simply Visual Lisp .
  Those tools were more than great and many simple people (just like me , you and many others) used them and created plenty and very nice programs , many of which were provided for free .
  Thus , the whole world was happy and cheerful . The sky was blue , the grass was green and cows were fat etc etc etc .
  Time passed by and many versions of that powerful tool were created , and as was before , so once again there was happiness in that land .
  Then , one day , a shadow fell upon the land ...
  The happiness that once was on that land started to faint ...
  Ravens appeared in the sky and the people of the land felt uncomfortable . Rumours raised across the land ... Rumours that the president of AutoSOFT , called Bill Doors , had turned on an evil man . He had decided to destroy all that he created and all that the simple programers , mentioned above , had created too .
  Then the rumours came true ......
  No healthy mind across the land could ever imagine what an evil plan Bill Doors had put on . With a single commercial strike , he released a new version of VL , called Visual Lisp .NET , which was no longer compatible with any of its previous releases . So , in a single night , millions of millions of code lines became uselles ... and the creators of those lines , were actually decapitated ...
  So chaos was casted upon that land , leading it to eternal damnation ...

  And they lived condamned for ever after
                     The End ...

  So , for all you out there , pull upwards your blanket and cover yourshelf , assume the embryo position , close your eyes and sleep tight in your sleep , without making any noises and staying still ...
  Becouse evil is outside and awaits ...


  I hope I didn't scare you , but the truth is that the above thought was a terrible one . For those who didn't understand , I explain that I somehow described the crime that Microsoft did a few years ago , when it did something that noone ever imagined : with the release of a new version of Visual Basic , automaticlly turned useless all anterior programs created with versions prior to VB .NET . And as far as concerning the complainments it received ... well they were really many (I quess even more of those CAB had in mind) but were in vain .
  Now , there is an ancient chinese proverm which sais : "What happened once , might happen again" .
  I quess there isn't any one out there that does not understand what I mean .

Tramber

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2007, 03:29:08 AM »
A big tsunami can happen again  :|

iliekater

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Re: Should I learn VBA?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2007, 04:05:02 PM »
That's right ...