Topic: ( Challenge ) Just curious

[Arizona]

Personally the word "challenge" will always turn me off immediately.

Thanks for sharing such personal information regarding yourself.
I guess I was under the misconception that most men liked competition and challenges. I appreciate your honesty in helping me correct this misconception.

Why turn programming into a game show? It reminds me of the TV Food Network,
which was nice back when it was mostly about cooking rather than, "and the
winner is..."

While both programming and cooking can be fun, I fail to understand where you see any other similarities with game shows. Perhaps you could explain to me, what the common factor is?

These things could be presented as collaborative work. IOW, it's not a
competition, but rather a joint effort aimed at sharing knowledge. Which I
think is what this place is about. Right, Mark?
 

Speaking of semantics…

Mark,
The downside of backing off from what you think is right, is it tends to lend
support to those who accused you.

Certainly not by anyone that knows him and is a part of the community. This seems a little like the thief accusing the homeowner for not having what he would like to steal.

And BTW, what's wrong with using this forum as a way of getting your work done?
Who said that's not allowed? Or you shouldn't do that?

I would believe that if you consistently used others work to get your work done (i.e. profited financially) this would classify as unethical.
While there is nothing wrong with generating new ideas and getting people to think creatively, and/or using snippets of code that others freely give, taking code for financial gain would just be wrong!

The more I read here, the more I don't understand.
What I want is an open ended forum where ideas flow freely without artificial constraints.
A "challenge" is an artifact by definition IMO.

Maybe you want to try:
Autodesk forums - an open ended forum where ideas flow freely without artificial constraints. Nope
AUGI - an open ended forum where ideas flow freely without artificial constraints. Nope
Or your own forum- an open ended forum where  (your own) ideas flow freely without artificial constraints.

It's not a matter of semantics given I saw a message from Luis recently which said something like, "someone should judge the entries and declare a winner."

Ya'll may choose to distance yourselves from this nonsense. So be it.

All I'm interested in is an end to it.

Please know I'm not flaming here or accusing anyone of anything. I just think we could do better than what we've done.

<said with a real Southern accent>Y’all just haven’t a clue about such nonsense…semantics, rubbish!<end real Southern accent>
If you were really interested in ending it you would never have continued in such a “challenging” manner. And yes, I’m sure we could all do better, but remember that starts with you, the individual, first.

[Kerry]

It IS all semantics I think.  ... but I know it has caused blood to be spilled in other places.
'Challenge' has connotations of personal battle, but also of personal stimulation derived from overcoming a situation.

I personally prefer the word 'Problem', 'cause that's how I look at all my programming 'Challenges'
.... a problem to be solved.
Sometimes the solution requires speed, sometimes security, or other criteria,
sometimes all are required.

Elegance, brevity, clever use of a language construct are all to be admired, but the core of the evaluation will always be ;
"does this solve my problem"



I think the best challenge is :
"this is the answer you want , please define the problem ... "  but perhaps that's just me ...

/// kwb


editted: t is nowwhere near p on the keyboard, so I can't blame fat fingers ...

[Jeff_M]

Joe, while I do appreciate your valuable input here, I just don't see how you can take this as anything but what it's intended to be. From Answers.com the definition of Challenge is:

•     A call to engage in a contest, fight, or competition: a challenge to a duel.
•     An act or statement of defiance; a call to confrontation: a challenge to the government's authority.
•   A demand for explanation or justification; a calling into question: a challenge to a theory.
•   A sentry's call to an unknown party for proper identification.
•   A test of one's abilities or resources in a demanding but stimulating undertaking.

Note the last one, this, IMHO, is the intended meaning for any challenge posted to theSwamp. I'm at a loss for any other single word that could be used in place of challenge.

Further, my old math teacher in High School used this same format to get us to go beyond the everyday classwork. He'd post a challenge to the class every Monday and it was up to the individual student whether they would participate, or not. Those that did earned extra credit and those that turned in a working solution (there were usually multiple ways to solve) received even more credit.....but NO ONE ever knew how much credit the other student(s) received. It was fun to participate in these, just as I find it fun to participate here.

Yes, I kidded Tim about mine (that I didn't post) being faster than his, but that's all it was ..... kidding around and having fun. In the mean time, we have all learned something that we didn't know last week. If I had even a small perception that these were contests with winners & losers declared I probably wouldn't even read the thread, much less participate in it.

Jeff

[LE]

were contests

In any form they are.

with winners & losers

That, to me can be translated into "Conclusions"

It is true that not always one would expect to wait for an answer to whatever one end up posting, many reasons language barrier, lack of interest, being busy, etc.

If there are not any conclusions one end up getting bored and might not participate in the next one.

[Chuck Gabriel]

I think the participants each draw their own conclusions.

[LE]

I think the participants each draw their own conclusions.

See language barrier case 101.

I agree.

-------------
Yo me refiero a que las conclusiones es la parte en donde gana o pierde el individuo que participa, no importa en que nivel este haya sido a final de cuentas lo importante que se llego a un proposito.

La parte en donde implicitamente comento el que en ocaciones se nota el bajo interes, es solo para hacer notar esa parte, e invitar a que esta sea cada vez mas reducida, simplemente eso, porque si se propone algun nuevo topico, si en este ademas de ser uno excelente, si los demas ven que se refleja interes en el, claro que habra mas participacion.... a eso me refiero escencialmente, sino pues para que uno participa si el interes es bajo... Creo que esa parte es la primordial, para que este foro continue creciendo, mas que nada por la gran mayoria de los excelentes miembros con los que cuenta.

Ven, asi mas facil me explico...   
---------------

[It's Alive!]

Is it a problem to go skydiving or a challenge? Who wins? All who participate and don’t bounce. It’s certainly not who can make it down the fastest haha. The conclusion is having a beer afterwards, well assuming you have won. What’s my point? Let’s all do our programming challenges and drink beer!

[Keith™]

<homer> mmmmm beer </homer>

[ElpanovEvgeniy]

Probably, all have noticed...
I try to write many variants in reply to call!
Try to guess, why?
I always know, what of variants is better, but I write it is more...

[ElpanovEvgeniy]

Evgeniy you're about the break the 'Sound Barrier' 

Code: [Select]

(defun c:test_4 (/ f f1 timer)
  ;;(c:test_4)
  ;; ElpanovEvgeniy
  (defun pars (s f)
    (if s
      (cons (read (strcat "(" (VL-STRING-TRANSLATE "," " " s) ")"))
            (pars (read-line f) f)
      ) ;_ cons
      (close f)
    ) ;_ if
  ) ;_ defun
  (defun min_max (mi ma l f)
    (if l
      (if (< mi (car l) ma)
          (min_max mi ma (cdr l) f)
        (if (< (car l) mi)
          (min_max (car l) ma (cdr l) f)
          (min_max mi (car l) (cdr l) f)
        ) ;_ if
      ) ;_ if
      (strcat (itoa mi) " " (itoa ma) "\n")
    ) ;_ if
  ) ;_ defun
  (setq timer (getvar "millisecs"))
  (setq f1 (open "D:\\numbers.csv" "R"))
  (setq f (open "D:\\result.csv" "W"))
  (princ
    (apply
      (function strcat)
      (mapcar
        (function
          (lambda (l)
            (if (< (car l) (cadr l))
              (min_max (car l) (cadr l) (cddr l) f)
              (min_max (cadr l) (car l) (cddr l) f)
            ) ;_ if
          ) ;_ lambda
        ) ;_ function
        (pars (read-line f1) f1)
      ) ;_ mapcar
    ) ;_ apply
    f
  ) ;_ princ
  (close f)
  (princ
    (strcat
      "Process took "
      (rtos (/ (- (getvar "millisecs") timer) 1000.0) 2 4)
      " seconds."
    ) ;_ strcat
  ) ;_ princ
  (princ)
)

Check:

Code: [Select]

(c:test_3) ;; ElpanovEvgeniy
(c:test_4) ;; ElpanovEvgeniy

 VLX-Application packed D:/Work/Project/lib/test/test.VLX
 
_$
Process took 0.375 seconds.
 Process took 0.344 seconds.


[Joe Burke]

Thanks to all who replied.

Sorry, I'm not able to reply to specific issues right now. But I hope the fact we kicked it around will be helpful in some way.

Regards

[CAB]

Probably, all have noticed...
I try to write many variants in reply to call!
Try to guess, why?
I always know, what of variants is better, but I write it is more...

Perhaps to show deferent ways of solving the problem.

[ElpanovEvgeniy]

Probably, all have noticed...
I try to write many variants in reply to call!
Try to guess, why?
I always know, what of variants is better, but I write it is more...

Perhaps to show deferent ways of solving the problem.

Yes. I want to show different variants.
In such subject, I do not see sense to win, in other languages will be faster...
The main thing to share experience!
In this problem slowly, but in another it will be fast.


PS. But I like to show a unusual code

[Arizona]

Yes. I want to show different variants.
In such subject, I do not see sense to win, in other languages will be faster...
The main thing to share experience!
In this problem slowly, but in another it will be fast.


PS. But I like to show a unusual code

Thanks for doing this! 
It certainly helps me to learn from what you are doing!

[CAB]

Evgeniy
Looking at your Test4, and others I see you reading a line from the file, then processing it before
reading another line. I thought it would be faster to read the entire file into a list & then process
the list. Now that I think about it, I suppose that the disk speed & disk cashing would play a part
in that, as well as how long the data processing took.