Topic: Xref Titleblocks

[CADaver]

If I need a block of attributes for updating drawing specific data (like drawing name) in the title block, what advantage is gained by making the titleblock and XREF?

[hyposmurf]

Our title blocks are just that blocks,havent used them as XREF's.Like to know why they would be usefull as XREF's though.Weird you do something everyday and sometimes dont question things like this.

[ronjonp]

IMMHO
I vote for always an xref. Static information like date, drawn by, checked by, company logo....etc is located in the tblock. Then an attributed block is inserted on the xref that carries drawing name, sheet #..etc. I work projects that have different levels that are submitted (30%, 60%, 90%, 100%) all of which have different dates on the titleblocks. If there are 50 sheets in a set, a simple date change could be quite laborsome. Also, I like the consistency of xrefs, you make a change in one master file and it updates in the rest. Simple.....

Ron

[Dommy2Hotty]

...Also, I like the consistency of xrefs, you make a change in one master file and it updates in the rest. Simple.....

Ron

Well put...that's why we use x-refs...we also try to note something only once, so that if it changes, we don't miss changing a note.  For example, we only show a ceiling height dimension on the front elevation, and then again on the wall section, and that's it.  One builder has us put the ceiling height under the floor plan name also, so we have to watch out for that one.  

When I got to this company, I had to work on their old drawings.  OMG   each drawing was one sheet, i.e. the floorplan, dimensioning, notes, border, everything...and the floorplan and the border weren't blocked, either.  It was such a pain to work on.  One of them even had the foundation, first floor plan, second floor plan, and roof plan all on top of eachother.  I can't stand that....[/rant]

[CAB]

I guess everyone has there own system.

For example, we only show a ceiling height dimension on the front elevation,
and then again on the wall section, and that's it.

I have houses that have 3 different ceiling heights on the first floor alone.
So in the wall section I say "See floor plan for ceiling height"

One of them even had the foundation, first floor plan,
second floor plan, and roof plan all on top of each other. I can't stand that....

Well wouldn't you know it, that's the way I like it. Not that it's is the "Right Way".
I find that it works for me. Usually foundation, flr 1, elect 1, framing1, flr 2, elect 2,
roof framing all in model space , sometimes HVAC 1&2 also
By turning all the layer on I can verify alignment between floors.
I can turn the first floor & foundation on and stretch an area so they are updated
all at once.
I can draw a column on the first floor & use "Copy to Layer" to put the column on the
foundation & the second floor. Just some of what I like about it.
My title block is x-ref into paperspace which means I have quite a few copies of it but
as you know model space has enough objects in it.

CAB

[Dommy2Hotty]

I have houses that have 3 different ceiling heights on the first floor alone. So in the wall section I say "See floor plan for ceiling height"

That's understandable...if there is a ceiling height difference, we put a note under the room name saying "10'-0" CEILING HEIGHT"

Not that it's is the "Right Way".
I find that it works for me. CAB

Very true, whatever works for you, first and foremost.  We do all design work (floor plans and elevations) in an X-ALL.dwg.  The magenta lines are our rotation points.  To line up something between floors, or from the floor plan to the elevation, we draw a construction line and rotate it using the rotation lines.


Then we X-REF the X-ALL.dwg, X-BDR.dwg and any other standard x-refs we use into each sheet.  We then dimension and note on those sheets.


EDIT: We put the Electrical for the basement on the foundation plan, but we do a seperate electrical sheet for the first & second floors, to keep things from getting crowded...

[CAB]

When you have to make changes to X-All.dwg do you have to shut down all other drawings
x-refing X-All?
The problem I have with x-refing is that I have three clients that have AUTOcad and
they want me to send the drawing to them from time to time and the x-refs get lost
due to the differing directory trees. I just read that you can uncheck the retain
path and acad will look at the directory where the drawing is being opened. So if that
works I will be using more x-ref in the future.

Very interesting how you deal with the rotation.
I rotate the UCS so my model space looks like this.



And the Floor Plan like this in Paper Space.
The title block is in paper space and the title test.
Most all other notes are in model space.

[daron]

At my last company we had all the titleblocks as blocks in each drawing. All static information. We then had a revision block that was x-refed in. Don't know how it will be done where I'll be starting on Monday. At least the job will be fun.

[Fuccaro]

I use XREF for large projects. In this way I will enter just once the main info. From my experience I can tell you that often we need to change some data and it is good to change them in a single place.
For small projects I use a block.

[Kate M]

I answered this in the other xref thread -- shoulda read this one first. Anyway, my vote is for xref, especially now that they can have attributes.

[CADaver]

IMMHO
I vote for always an xref. Static information like date, drawn by, checked by, company logo....etc is located in the tblock.

  We have a 150 possible "drawn by" and I don't have a clue who the "checked by" is gonna be until I see the intials on the check print. so our xref is down to 16 lines and the profile of a turkey (company logo, supposed to be an eagle, but the owner's daughter doesn't draw eagles very well).

Then an attributed block is inserted on the xref that carries drawing name, sheet #..etc.

  Now that goes back to my original question.  If you need the non-static stuff in an attributed block anyway, what do you gain from the xref'd part?

I work projects that have different levels that are submitted (30%, 60%, 90%, 100%) all of which have different dates on the titleblocks. If there are 50 sheets in a set, a simple date change could be quite laborsome.

 every sheet carries the same revision every time?  If one element on one sheet is revised, the entire package is revised and re-issued?  Everything that should be static, but might change over the course of a contract we define as "pre-set" attributes.

Also, I like the consistency of xrefs, you make a change in one master file and it updates in the rest. Simple..... Ron

 I guess that's my other point of confusion.  At contract we know who the client is, what the facility is called what units and processes are going to involved, etc.  I can't see what would be required to change on every titleblock that would indicate use as an XREF.  

OTOH, we may have 8 or 10 contracts with the same client running at the same time, with new contratcs starting at different times.  These clients have changed their borders for new contracts long after other contracts were well under way.  Backing up to several thousand files to rearrange attributes to match the new XREF is something we don't have covered in our budget, and frankly, don't wish to be bothered by.  The format of the border is set at contract with anthing that needs to be flexible defined as an attribute.

[ronjonp]

Cadaver,

An answer to: "every sheet carries the same revision every time?" The submittals are not revisions, they are levels of project completion. So yes the sets are resubmitted in their entirety.

"We have a 150 possible "drawn by" and I don't have a clue who the "checked by"

So this isn't a static condition for you......

"I can't see what would be required to change on every titleblock that would indicate use as an XREF."

In your drafting discipline, you probably never will....

Here's a link to the discussion from the last time we argued about this.


http://www.cadalog.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=44071#44071

[CADaver]

An answer to: "every sheet carries the same revision every time?" The submittals are not revisions, they are levels of project completion. So yes the sets are resubmitted in their entirety.

geez, I'm glad we aren't required d to do that, we can have 6000-10000 drawings in the "set"

Here's a link to the discussion from the last time we argued about this.

 nah, it's not an arguement, it's a lively discussion from two distinct viewpoints.  

And as for the client requesting a change to the titleblock, it's only happened to me once.  We did an estimate for the cost and presented the client with the change order, and he said nevermind it looks just fine like it is.

[TR]

No need for XREFed title blocks here. Our document manglement system makes sure all the job information and such is the same.

[ronjonp]

nah, it's not an arguement, it's a lively discussion from two distinct viewpoints

   

[pmvliet]

Tim,
What is your document management system?

[TR]

Cyco Automanager Meridian

[pmvliet]

How do you like it? and issues with AutoCad? reference files?
If you wouldn't mind, would you hit me off-line here
@ pvliet__ssoe.com

I want to learn more about it.

Pieter

[TR]

Sure thing. I'll shoot off an email now.