Topic: (C3D) Complaints and some general weirdness!

[surveyor_randy]

Okay...  I have a 160 lot subdivision that the developer wants to do in three phases.  All parcels have been created and labeled and the boundary lines are matching the deeds & title work.  The county now wants everything rotated so that it will fit nicely within their GIS system.  SO....  I attempt to rotate the drawing using a USGS corner as the rotation point.  Over 3000 objects....  C3D crashes.   As I expected it to do.  So, I do it again...  and guess what, it crashes!  So, I reboot the computer and then rotate again.  This time, the rotation works BUT, as soon as you try to do anything else, it (C3D) crashes.  So I reboot again, rotate the drawing and then immediately save it.  Quit, reload C3D and things seem to be working again.  Only now, I have a bunch of bogus parcel numbers.  Meaning 437,521,648, etc.  So....  I am now spending time dicking around with these odd parcel numbers.  I create a polyline through the parcels and try the renumber routine.  It works fine on all parcels except the ones with the funky numbers.   The funny thing about it, is that these funky parcels don't even appear in the parcel list.  I have multiple sites in this drawing but these parcels appear in NONE of those sites.  Yet, when I click on the funky parcel number, it highlights the parcel boundary....  weird.  So...  I started deleting parcel lines until the 'funky' parcel number disappears.  I finally got things back the way that I wanted them.  Long story short....  it took me 3-4 hours to accomplish a task that would have taken another application 2 minutes.  WTF!!  Also, now I'm stuck with the following weirdness that I've never seen before.  I've got this 'O' that is appearing just outside of the parcel in the upper left corner.  The 'O', when clicked on, gives properties that I've never seen before either.

[sinc]

Not sure what happened to all the Parcels.  We just needed to do the same thing, and it worked fine.  But we had a relatively small subdivision, with only about 40 lots.

I also notice that editing Parcels is very "touchy".  Sometimes I can grip-edit parcels and they're fine, other times they do funky things.  They often reset themselves, losing their parcel number, name (if the parcel has one), description, style, and any UDPs the parcel may have.  I was somewhat surprised that we were able to rotate all of ours with just a few problems.  Don't think I've seen what happened to you, though.

That 0 in the upper-left corner looks like it might be the label for the Site Parcel...?  The "Site Parcel" is the outer boundary of any Site, containing all Parcels in your Site.  It can be used to label the overall area of the Site.  (Thank Autodesk for the nice name for the "Site Parcel".)

You can change some of the Properties for the Site Parcel by right-clicking on the "Parcels" collection in any Site.  On the Composition tab, there is an entry for "Site area label style" that should define the Style for that label in the upper-right corner.

[surveyor_randy]

I'm glad that the rotation worked out for ya Sinc!  I don't know about you, but I feel like every time I am dealing with parcels on a large scale, I am in a boxing match with C3D in order to get it to do what I want it to.  It is probably bad practice, but I usually define my *adjusted* boundary as a parcel first, then I define my ROW which I create by offsetting the alignment by whatever the ROW requirements are.  Then, I adjust the wire frame geometry from our planning department (since it is NEVER right from the get go!).  I then define the lot parcels from my adjusted geometry.  Since I like to apply parcel labels to the centerline geometry, I create a site specifically called 'centerline geometry' so I can add tag labels to it.  I don't know about you, but whenever I have to adjust parcel geometry, C3D does some weird things.  Such as giving parcels numbers that are WAY outside of the range that I am using, and creating parcels with a parcel number that isn't related to any site.

So needless to say, I feel like I am in a boxing match with C3D.  I generally get the *beat down* on C3D after a bunch of crashes and having tons of temp files on my local drive.  But I beat it like a dominatrix!

My only bitch right now, other then the lack of robustness from C3D in the area of parcels, is that if you decide to use a polyline to renumber parcels, it still interacts with parcels that aren't included in the current site.  So in my case, I like to define the ROW as a parcel....  If my Pline that directs my lot number scheme crosses the ROW (which it ALWAYS does), then the ROW gets a new number as well.  Even though it isn't in the same site as my lots.

Oh, BTW, I wanted to thank you for Sinc PAK!  I had my techs put setbacks on 280 lots today and it only took them 5 minutes to do it!   It would have only taken 2, but the other 3 were spent figuring out the order of input! 

We can't wait to see whatever you have in the works!

[sinc]

I know what you mean.  Parcels are one of the weakest areas of Civil-3D.  And it's not just that they are horribly buggy - they are also mis-designed from the ground up.  I have gone on at great length on the subject in some past posts...   

But the Parcels do get better as you work with them, and discover "Oh, I see, I shouldn't do THAT...  When I need to perform this task, I should do this and then this instead...".  But there are still a slew of bugs.  The worst is possibly the way that Parcels like to reset when editing the geometry.  When they do that, they lose their number, their name (if you've given them one), their description, their style, and any UDP's you may have created.  For this reason alone, we generally avoid Parcel UDPs, because we get tired of re-entering the data every time C3D "forgets" it.

The Parcels -> Edit Parcel -> Edit Parcel Properties command has the same problem as the renumber.  If you have overlapping Sites, there seems to be no way to draw a polyline through your parcels and get the parcels you want.

Glad to hear the Sincpac-C3D is helping you!  The up-coming version actually has full integrated help, which would have helped you figure out how to use the PARCELOFFSET command faster.  But we, too, have saved quite a bit of time with that command.  I chose "POS" as the alias for that command as something of a joke, because it really is NOT a piece of s...   

[mjfarrell]

Perhaps that POS should be called POD, as in pissed that you even had to write the command in the first place.

[sourdough]

Hi Randy
   I am old school in alot of ways, and wonder if you have gone thru and done an audit. I have a program that I have
used for years called SuperPurge and when used I always run under AP ID the routine and always
find bad audits hidden or other objects that are not right. Have to be careful and backup before you do
this, but has found numerous errors this way and solved many problems.

Mike

[surveyor_randy]

Thanks for the suggestion but it isn't a drawing error.  It is just C3D's weak parcel creation process.  I finally figured out that you don't need a closed geometric figure to have parcel segments which comes in very handy for using line/curve tables for centerline geometry.  The parcel renumber routine could use some work.  I wish that you could exclude certain parcels from the renumbering.  For example.  Typically my process for creating a site would be to do the initial boundary as a parcel.  Run the alignment through the parcel and offset it the proper ROW distance.  Then turn the ROW lines into parcels (NOT using the ROW parcel routine, but the standard parcel creation routine), then I create my lots from there.  This works out fine except when I have to renumber my parcels (which 9 out of 10 times, I do), if the pline tracing the renumber route crosses the ROW parcel at all, it get's renumbered.  I thought about moving the ROW to another site but then I would have to recreate the ROW geometry in the site containing my lot layouts.  So I end up with a seperate pline for each tier of lots and have to renumber them that way.  Hopefully the parcel creation/editing/labeling routines will be more robust in C3D 2009.

[scout]

if the pline tracing the renumber route crosses the ROW parcel at all, it get's renumbered.  I thought about moving the ROW to another site but then I would have to recreate the ROW geometry in the site containing my lot layouts.  So I end up with a seperate pline for each tier of lots and have to renumber them that way.  Hopefully the parcel creation/editing/labeling routines will be more robust in C3D 2009.

when you come to the parcel right before your ROW, pause. Right Click. this stops the process. move across the street, left click and begin again.

alternatively you can end the command completely, then come back in and enter the number you'd like to start with.

[scout]

when you come to the parcel right before your ROW, pause. Right Click. this stops the process. move across the street, left click and begin again.

alternatively you can end the command completely, then come back in and enter the number you'd like to start with.

actually that is if you aren't using the pline method but are using the command "naked" which actually might be the better process for you. or, as you know, draw the pline so that it doesnt cross the ROW parcel.

*fixed quotes*

[Jeff_M]

...but are using the command "naked" which actually might be the better process for you.

The very first time I saw my ROW parcel get included in my renumbering scheme I told myself "self, don't do that anymore, there's got to be a better way." So this is how I have used the renumber command ever since. You can even still use the Polyline method, just stop it at the ROW, the only thing is you will need to select multiple Plines in the correct order.

[scout]

you have definitely figured this out already- but the planar graph (which is the underlying invisible "site") cannot handle things like move and rotate. if you get it to work, it's a fluke. there are all kinds of things at play-

for example- if you have ever tried to rotate parcels that have attached segments (create by layout segments) they are drawn first, then the rest of your segments drawn. which is why you get overshoots on parcel segments that were once neatly contained.