Topic: Complex Corridor Modeling- Pushing the software as hard as we can?

[scout]

The thread about what should be included in a book got me thinking about some of the corridor tools that I don't fully exploit and I was wondering what others have found to work well.

The first thing that comes to mind is subassembly input and output variables that you can access in the subassembly properties. I have some ideas how these might be used, but I will admit that I haven't applied them yet.

Has anyone used them? In what context? How did they work? Do you have any samples you can share? I think I might have a use in one of my river corridors, and a lot of road stuff that doesn't quite work as smoothly with a million and one targets.

Ideas?

Also- what else are you using? Succeeding with? Need help with?

[mjfarrell]

It would be great to see more of the sub assemblies make good use of the Get Value From [Use Toggle] and or would have more values that other sub assemblies could use.
It would be even more fantastic if it actually used the Offset Alignment station when one had offset alignments with the corridor.

It makes teaching it's application a little difficult, as not all subs have values to offer, nor can use values offered by other subassemblies within the assembly.

[mjfarrell]

What input output values do you think you need to use and where in your stream corridor?

[John Mayo]

Wow. I unfortunately have not done more than a half dozen or so since you were here. I also think I am the only one here still building with corridors and gradings. I have no control of this & the boss doesn't want an hour CAD meeting each week because the work is getting done. It's better to him that we work.

Our biggest questions came with targets, sub useage & locating/matching proposed grade lines. These are a few of the things that have slowed us down.

Avoiding/correcting bowties when daylighting trying of course to keep the daylight continuous for auto boundary creation. Daylight strategies, tips, tricks. You know I still want the VERY SIMPLE LDD daylight function working in C3D.

Cul-de-sacs (CDS) are easy if the high/low point is at the end of a symmetric bulb. What about when you have an asymmetric CDS with a low point on one side or on both sides. CDS warping techniques.

Walls following these CDS on offsets. Many times with tiers (4' max here for fastest approval).

Serpentine driveways (for steep slopes of course) with 3 tiered walls on both sides.

On the last 3, locating the PGL off the CL is always the biggest challenge.

We would like to see examples of the most common subs in use with pros/cons of each.

I remember a woman from Asia had a blog & she posted a dynamite corridor model of a site that had rads, walls, basins embankments, etc. We want to do those things.

You know what we are trying to pack into these single family plot plans. Pools up against 2 or 3 tiers of walls. Driveways supported by walls, below grade garages, the courts, landscaping berms, swales. Most of the staff has given up on corridors & gradings.

Okay more to come this weekend. Eric Clapton tonight & I should be very busy tomorrow. I will check back when time permits.

[mjfarrell]

Wow. I unfortunately have not done more than a half dozen or so since you were here.

Since who was where?

Our biggest questions came with targets, sub useage & locating/matching proposed grade lines. These are a few of the things that have slowed us down.

Studying the various pieces of the sub assemblies is your shortest path to mastering them.
Study the Input Parameters Carefully, Understand that they may appear differently in Layout mode than when you apply them to your corridor, targets.  Understand that with Exception of Marked Point and any object looking for marked point the pieces can pretty much go together any way you need them to; given you understand their input parameters and what they will or wont target, and when set targets are mandatory, or optional.
Also get used to either over building, or over sampling to include portions of the corridor surface as part of the design solution in your profiles. (locating targeting pgl's)

Avoiding/correcting bowties when daylighting trying of course to keep the daylight continuous for auto boundary creation. Daylight strategies, tips, tricks. You know I still want the VERY SIMPLE LDD daylight function working in C3D.

You might need greater use of offsets within your assemblies such that you shorten the distances the links are being projected from centerline.
And or do not daylight the corridor within the corridor. You might need to project a Grading Feature to daylight, and limit it's regions such that they do not overlap (apply to entire length Yes/No <NO>) And then perhaps use those results for your daylight object to use as a target alignment and or profile.

Cul-de-sacs (CDS) are easy if the high/low point is at the end of a symmetric bulb. What about when you have an asymmetric CDS with a low point on one side or on both sides. CDS warping techniques.

Simply insert the high low points along the Cul De Sac profile that the assembly will follow.
The Transparent Command Profile Station From Plan ('STAE) works well for locating that low point at the property line, or centered on your drainage easement (structure headwall)

Walls following these CDS on offsets. Many times with tiers (4' max here for fastest approval).

Serpentine driveways (for steep slopes of course) with 3 tiered walls on both sides.

On the last 3, locating the PGL off the CL is always the biggest challenge.

Suggest you use Copy Profile and or the Superimpose profile and Raise Lower Profile commands to use CL as the Design reference you desire.
You will also discover that having a Profile View for Each Alignment is your BEST practice, otherwise one risks targeting a(n) PGL that is shorter than the parent baseline alignment and having the corridor model go to Zero (0) elevation.

I remember a woman from Asia had a blog & she posted a dynamite corridor model of a site that had rads, walls, basins embankments, etc.

I think I posted a simpler solution in the News Groups right under the link to that WAY to complicated solution she suggests. I tried her method first, and decided there was a much simpler way to achieve those results.

[mjfarrell]

And get very familiar with the C3D Ninja trick #1.


Tool Palette

Right-Click

Apply Tool Properties to Sub Assembly

When you discover that the first iteration of your corridor is not exactly what you wanted, and then need to swap in other assembly components, target and rebuild that corridor.

[John Mayo]

Thanks Michael. There are a few tricks I did not have up me sleave there.

Most of that is what we would like to see in print. We are a small firm & we do not typically spend much on training. We have a pretty broad range in projects and many tasks are not performed on a regular basis. We have copies of Mastering here that should be used as a reference and supplement to Help & the tutorials. In an ideal environmnet they are used often.

Dana & James implemented C3D in our office. That's the "who".


I'll post back. I need some time to fully read & digest. Have a good weekend.

[mjfarrell]

Good to know I had not forgotten one of my students. (whew)
As I keep in touch with most, as they access the free support I offer after all training sessions.

[John Mayo]

I feel a need to clear the air.

I do hope I am misinterpreting your posts Michael. I thought you knew EE was retained by my firm from previous posts on The Swamp. Perhaps my smiley face was not placed well but I was not trying to provide a shovel for a dig at EE.

I have a great deal of respect for what they did here keeping in mind the environment. A boss who knows only how to redline contours & has a negative affinity and understanding for/of computing & digital data, egotistical users with no desire to make anyones life easy but their own (each to their own set of standards, hooray!) & a massave reluctance to change.  LDT upgrades have been painful moments for a couple of our users. . Personally I am amazed folks are still using C3D and have not gone back to LDD. I attribute this to EE's work. If I did the implementing C3D would have been scraped by all but myself & one other user. Also note this company has no annual budget for technology or training. That all falls under the miscellaneous category. The company employs 10 including survey field crew & office staff. We hire one more when we get real busy.

I also have a great deal of respect for you, your expertice and your heroic efforts at The Swamp. You have helped me greatly & I cannot thank you enough.

I do not know the source of friction & I would really prefer not to be wrapped up in the middle. I am a user looking for help.

Again I do hope I am misunderstanding this whole thing because I still have a ton of questions .

[Dinosaur]

John, your story sounds all too familiar to mine.  I wish you the best in moving your firm forward with Civil 3D.  If you should ever feel the need, feel free to pull up a virtual chair to this virtual bar and we can share virtual refreshment and some all too real stories.

[mjfarrell]

No misunderstanding on my part at all.

It just seems that your recent comments are not exactly congruent with past comments that leaves you explaining the relative success or failure thereof of the training you have commented on.  No friction at all, and not trying to put you on the defensive for your choice in training, or the defense of those doing said training.  

I stand ready to assist at any juncture. One need not have a dedicated budget for training as long as said training is reasonably priced and effect, that is the position of myself on the mission of my company.  To save small companies such as yours from spending (investing) money, and then later questioning it's efficacy. I will allow the comments you have seen here from others about the effectiveness of the training methods used by myself to speak for themselves.

The source of the 'friction' is simple professional difference in opinion, as to training methods, and the purpose we serve.


You won't hear me complaining about getting paid less than my cousin made at his Bar Mitzvah for my efforts, because I do this for my students. Just simple differences in why we are here, and what our purpose to the community is.
I believe that I am here to serve, and in the process learn more than I would otherwise.

Keep posting you questions, and you will get answers.  

[mjfarrell]

John, your story sounds all too familiar to mine.  I wish you the best in moving your firm forward with Civil 3D.  If you should ever feel the need, feel free to pull up a virtual chair to this virtual bar and we can share virtual refreshment and some all too real stories.

I'll buy you both the first round. 

I just truly wish that the crew where you are Dino would have gotten some training. I say this because a lot the the challenges you have faced would have been reduced or eliminated if you had both gotten some training.(except where the software is defective or deficient)  As for John, I wish that they could have gotten their training from myself and that they would be able to use the product more profitably. 

Cheers!

[John Mayo]

My sincerest appologies to all.

[scout]

Personally I am amazed folks are still using C3D and have not gone back to LDD. I attribute this to EE's work. If I did the implementing C3D would have been scraped by all but myself & one other user.

I do miss our time together in person, John, it was always a pleasure coming into your office to work on those live pilot projects. Northern New Jersey has such an interesting set of submittal requirements. (AND I liked your town so much that Prospector's middle name is Ramsey.) I am glad that we established that google group so that we could dialog and I could provide procedures, support and documentation between visits and ongoing afterwards.

I loved coming up with creative solutions for your most nagging hand calculation work, such as those soil movement labels and documented procedures, the average end area hack for those elaborate single lot grading volumes, intricate parcel tables, site geometry organization, getting your survey crew up to speed, and other fun stuff. From the first moment I opened your drawings a few weeks before my first visit, I knew I was working with a talented group. You had personally built a truly amazing template, and I was glad to help you work out some of those final elusive styles with references and expressions and juggling attachment points, etc.

I wish that we had encountered more grading during our time together. Most of what we came up to meet your specifications turned out to be feature line related, and despite working out grading techniques using a combination of corridors, targets, feature lines, extractions and otherwise, your team seemed to be quite committed to feature lines, and without respecting the careful site geometry hygiene we established, that didn't always serve them well.

The google group has been quiet since I had Prospector in the fall, so I am looking forward to continue supporting you on tackling those nutty cul-de-sacs and mansion lot grading plans in this forum, if you would like. It seems like you have a little bit more breathing room and renewed energy. It would be great to get new perspectives and ideas beyond what you and I have already worked out, and a benefit to all users to learn more about pushing corridors and grading as far as it can go.

It was too bad that Mastering was still months from being published when we worked together, because it would have been beneficial for your CAD newbies to have a reliable reference text for reinforcing the live design and modeling we did with your own data and template.

See you around the swamp, John!

Dana