TheSwamp
CAD Forums => CAD General => Topic started by: Bethrine on February 03, 2015, 04:48:24 PM
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Okay, crazy notion...
I had the same problem with scaled annotations in paperspace.
1. Model is drawn 1:1 in Model space
2. Viewport is on a no print layer, NOT the Defpoints layer
3. Viewport is set at 1:4 scale
4. I am NOT using annotative dimensions. (Is there more than one place to tell AutoCAD to do this?) I put views of 3D objects on paper space so annotation actually costs me more time to set up properly than just using paper space.
5. Annotations are all done in paper space.
Problem: Annotations show the scaled measurement and not the actual 1:1 measurements. For example: a one inch cube, through a 1:4 viewport, measures at 1/4" in annotations in paper space. I want it to read the 1:1 measurement of 1".
I have been looking and looking for a setting that affects this and cannot find one. ANY help appreciated for a plaguing problem. (If the problem is the user, I am okay with that, the user needs to be fixed!! ) :-D
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in the dimension style....Primary Units tab - middle of the left side...
MEASUREMENT SCALE
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Opened it up this way...
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apply viewport scale factor there...
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apply viewport scale factor there...
I need this spelled out for me.
I want everything 1 to 1 so that when I do use a scaled viewport, my annotations give me the proper dimensions 1 to 1.
First book I ever read on AutoCAD said leave everything 1 to 1 so you don't have to "find" a scale setting and just scale viewports. I have been doing this since. I did fool around with annotative dimensions so that I knew what they were. To my mind, paperspace is scaling the dimension readings and I want it to stop...okay, maybe I'm being stubborn. I'm trying it.
One of my worries is making to many settings changes, getting lost in them and then never figuring this out. :uglystupid2:
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Cleaned it up a bit but tried to leave the problem areas.. :oops:
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for dimensions in model space the 1:1 rule = true
For dimensions on the layout (paperspace) not true you must apply the viewport scale to your dimensions to have them be correct.....
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for dimensions in model space the 1:1 rule = true
For dimensions on the layout (paperspace) not true you must apply the viewport scale to your dimensions to have them be correct.....
I did that and it does not change anything in this drawing. However, I clipboard copy and pasted from model space to a new drawing and everything is now working as expected. My co-worker says it's just a bad drawing.
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What is you DIMASSOC system variable set to? Make sure this is set to 2.
If it is set to 0 or 1 then system variable DIMLFAC applies. For nonassociative dimensions in paper space, DIMLFAC must be set individually for each layout viewport to accommodate viewport scaling.
Kr. Robbo.
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for dimensions in model space the 1:1 rule = true
For dimensions on the layout (paperspace) not true you must apply the viewport scale to your dimensions to have them be correct.....
I have never done that.
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apply viewport scale factor there...
That is a very limited-scope solution, imo, which may work for some instances, but leaves one with an inflexible situation that requires much manual work.
1- I would suggest setting DIMASSOC to 2.
2- Leave the dimension-style settings as you have them.
DIMASSOC is a system variable that is set on a per-drawing basis. It is not set across-the-board for any drawing you open. It can be set to 1 in one drawing, 0 in another, 2 in another. So the drawing you pasted the model into, it may have been set right. The drawing you /had/ it in originally may have had dimassoc set to 0.
If you have DIMASSOC set to 1 or 2, it will read the scale of the VIEWPORT and the dimension will scale appropriately (assuming you snap tot he objects in model space through the viewport, when you're placing dims in paperspace)
If you have DIMASSOC set to 0, the scale of the dimension will stick stubbornly to the scale set in the dimension style, which you have set to 1.000.
DIMASSOC=2 means never having to set your dimension scale - only your viewport scale. This is a solution that works perfectly for any drawing, regardless of the number of sheets or viewports. If you have a viewport at 1:4, and have a 1:1 detail inset, DIMASSOC=2 means you can keep creating dimensions on any viewport and they'll read correctly.
DIMASSOC=0 means you have to manually chance the scale of every dimension or have a separate dimension style for each 'scale' of dimension, and apply the scale to the appropriate dimensions.
DIMASSOC=0 = wasting time, imo.
DIMASSOC=2 = leaving your time to worry about more important things.
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let me correct myself
IF DIMASSOC = 0 then you MUST set scaling to match viewport
IF DIMASSOC = 2 then you don't
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and...
always use OSNAP and snap to geometry points for dimensioning.
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and...
always use OSNAP and snap to geometry points for dimensioning.
Second that...
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Thank you everyone! DIMASSOC was set to 1 in that drawing. I set it to 2 and wha-la! The dimensions are placing correctly and if I save and close and re-open the drawing they are still correct. Yay! :yay!:
Note: I have been a member of the swamp for long enough that I am careful both to use snap points carefully and to make sure I don't leave extra lines on top of lines or in wierd, funky pieces.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! :yay!: :yay!: :yay!: :-)
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Nice thread.
I didn't know that Dimassoc had that power, I just thought it made the dimensions update if geometry moved.
Thanks.
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(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2015/02/B8zWI6iCMAEPWMi.png)
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DIMLFAC is 1
DIMASSOC is 2
Then this...I believe I want a 1:1 annotation scale. I have tried checking and un-checking the make dim's associative box.
I want 1:1 how do I un-grey out or where do I fix this?
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is that a question?
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Unlock it.
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Unlock it.
Doh'! Yes, I'm frustrated. :nerdyembarassed:
is that a question?
Um...no!
I went through this thread, fixed and tried many things and still my dimensions are reading 6" for a 12" object through a 1:2 viewport. I have been working here over a year, doing things the same way, and using the drop down list so my viewport SHOWS the object at 1:2 and paperspace dimensions on the same object READ 1:1. Now they are reading incorrectly for my purposes. I would very much like to fix this. :oops:
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study this one
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I could just change the text but I would much rather do this properly.
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and or dimension in model space
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and or dimension in model space
In several different scale views at several different projections. This is a machine part.
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Annotative will just change the arrowhead size, text height, etc.......
Attached is original drawing with added Dimension Style Standard-Anno(Same as previous but annotative.)
- I copied part in model space and dimensioned it with Annotative dimension style.
- I created 2 sets of viewports, 1 set matching original viewports and one set at a different scale
Is the what your after
(http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd473/Jeffrey_H/annodim_zpspfnlmya2.png)
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and or dimension in model space
In several different scale views at several different projections. This is a machine part.
If I do that, then I have to do additional work for each viewport and annotation scale and who knows what else (I haven't done it much) maybe additional layers. I CAN but I don't WANT to. If I dimension in paper space and let the viewport scale, it saves loads of work...as long as my dimensions read 1:1.
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and or dimension in model space
In several different scale views at several different projections. This is a machine part.
If I do that, then I have to do additional work for each viewport and annotation scale and who knows what else (I haven't done it much) maybe additional layers. I CAN but I don't WANT to. If I dimension in paper space and let the viewport scale, it saves loads of work...as long as my dimensions read 1:1.
Sorry I guess I'm confused and making it more complicated, but if I did that in paperspace it would if taken more work because I would of have had to of dimensioned it twice
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and or dimension in model space
In several different scale views at several different projections. This is a machine part.
If I do that, then I have to do additional work for each viewport and annotation scale and who knows what else (I haven't done it much) maybe additional layers. I CAN but I don't WANT to. If I dimension in paper space and let the viewport scale, it saves loads of work...as long as my dimensions read 1:1.
Sorry I guess I'm confused and making it more complicated, but if I did that in paperspace it would if taken more work because I would of have had to of dimensioned it twice
I've never had to dimension twice or set up scales or any of that. I tell the viewport what size it is once, it scales the visual of the object and I annotate anything on any different scaled viewport one time and it's all correct. I don't have to change dimension styles either, I only use one and it's standard everywhere. At least until something started changing my dimension readings.
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study this one
I certainly will! Hopefully, if nothing else, I will figure out how to fix this and keep it from becoming a problem down the road. Thank you.
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and or dimension in model space
In several different scale views at several different projections. This is a machine part.
that would be why you use ANNOTATIVE text AND dimension styles
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Firstly the reason for the dimensions changing is probably that they were created with version before AutoCAD 2002.
DIMASSOC was added in 2002 but dimension used DIMASO variable which is still present in 2015.
If you open a drawing created previous to 2002 in a newer version the drawing has no DIMASSOC value and it sets it to match DIMASO which can only be 0 or 1.
and or dimension in model space
In several different scale views at several different projections. This is a machine part.
If I do that, then I have to do additional work for each viewport and annotation scale and who knows what else (I haven't done it much) maybe additional layers. I CAN but I don't WANT to. If I dimension in paper space and let the viewport scale, it saves loads of work...as long as my dimensions read 1:1.
Sorry I guess I'm confused and making it more complicated, but if I did that in paperspace it would if taken more work because I would of have had to of dimensioned it twice
I've never had to dimension twice or set up scales or any of that. I tell the viewport what size it is once, it scales the visual of the object and I annotate anything on any different scaled viewport one time and it's all correct. I don't have to change dimension styles either, I only use one and it's standard everywhere. At least until something started changing my dimension readings.
I was not suggesting to change anything that is already done but for creating new parts was showing you only have to annotate once and do not have to annotate for each different scale and did not have to create scales, and did not have to create dimstlyes could of just made Standard Annotative.
I will leave it at this because like normal I probably confused but, if you looked at drawing I attached it might make more sense.
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Firstly the reason for the dimensions changing is probably that they were created with version before AutoCAD 2002.
DIMASSOC was added in 2002 but dimension used DIMASO variable which is still present in 2015.
If you open a drawing created previous to 2002 in a newer version the drawing has no DIMASSOC value and it sets it to match DIMASO which can only be 0 or 1.
Ah, I didn't know that.
Sorry I guess I'm confused and making it more complicated, but if I did that in paperspace it would if taken more work because I would of have had to of dimensioned it twice
I could quote you and there is something I am definately missing here. :uglystupid2:
I was not suggesting to change anything that is already done but for creating new parts was showing you only have to annotate once and do not have to annotate for each different scale and did not have to create scales, and did not have to create dimstlyes could of just made Standard Annotative.
I did look at your drawing. I didn't have to do any of that.
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Maybe this will explain it better, why to dimension annotatively in model space appears more difficult to me. If I am wrong, I am most interested! I would have to dimension the attached drawing on all 6 sides as well as detail views...
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no it is a bit easier to uuse annotative dimensions and text and hatching....
once you A) get used to using them, and or B) get all the anno scales set up in your templates
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Doesn't that add the work of putting them on different layers so I can freeze all the dimension layers on sides of the object that do not pertain to a specific view?
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Doesn't that add the work of putting them on different layers so I can freeze all the dimension layers on sides of the object that do not pertain to a specific view?
Dimensioning in model space with annotative dimensions is harder than what you are doing. There are a lot of variables to annotative scaling. Paper space annotation is easy peasy. Sometimes the KISS method is the best option.
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Doesn't that add the work of putting them on different layers so I can freeze all the dimension layers on sides of the object that do not pertain to a specific view?
IF you are dimensioning the actual 3d model yes...
however one could them make a case to use the sectioning tool instead....and dimension the sections
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Doesn't that add the work of putting them on different layers so I can freeze all the dimension layers on sides of the object that do not pertain to a specific view?
IF you are dimensioning the actual 3d model yes...
however one could them make a case to use the sectioning tool instead....and dimension the sections
Okay mj, pretend I'm in kindergarten. Why is a dimension in paper space, that is reading off an object in model space, saying that a 6" measurement is 3"?
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most probably because you neglected to use OSNAP when selecting the point? or DIMASSOC is set wrong.
general comment, based on a certain amount of experience in plant and civil work, is that a dimension should only be shown in one place, one the one sheet that it is most relevant to. annotative dimension make it easy to break that rule, but IME it's poor drafting practice.
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most probably because you neglected to use OSNAP when selecting the point? or DIMASSOC is set wrong.
general comment, based on a certain amount of experience in plant and civil work, is that a dimension should only be shown in one place, one the one sheet that it is most relevant to. annotative dimension make it easy to break that rule, but IME it's poor drafting practice.
Yes, that (in bold) is one of the first things they taught me to look for here. :-)
I confess I don't understand the part in italic, probably because I haven't been using them...that I am aware of. :roll:
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I confess I don't understand the part in italic, probably because I haven't been using them...that I am aware of. :roll:
The annotative scaling that can be applied to dimensions, text, and blocks, like linetype scaling, allows you to show the same annotative object(s) through viewports with different scales at the same size in paper space. With dimensions, there is the potential for duplication at different scales of the same view. The same feature applied to blocks allows you to show the same symbol at the same size at different scales without duplicating the block on different layers just for viewport scale.
Hope that makes sense.
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also annotative function can also allow one to NOT show things that are not relevant at a particular scale...
take framing for a steel building...in an overall General Assembly drawing the nuts and bolts and washers would just clutter the drawing
so IF they are blocks and IF they are annotative - they could exclude that scale and not be shown...
same blocks later in a 'connection' detail drawing would show up at that scale in that viewport.
as to why a 6" dimension is showing as 3"??? sounds like DIMLFAC is being applied to that dimension string
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is that a dimension should only be shown in one place,
why is that?
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is that a dimension should only be shown in one place,
why is that?
In theory (dating to manual drafting) it reduces the chance that a dimension
may change and NOT be updated in all locations.
This potential problem can still happen if one is NOT using associative dimensions AND in the habit of overriding the dimension value(s).
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I confess I don't understand the part in italic, probably because I haven't been using them...that I am aware of. :roll:
The annotative scaling that can be applied to dimensions, text, and blocks, like linetype scaling, allows you to show the same annotative object(s) through viewports with different scales at the same size in paper space. With dimensions, there is the potential for duplication at different scales of the same view. The same feature applied to blocks allows you to show the same symbol at the same size at different scales without duplicating the block on different layers just for viewport scale.
Hope that makes sense.
It does and in that instance annotative scaling makes sense.
is that a dimension should only be shown in one place,
why is that?
In theory (dating to manual drafting) it reduces the chance that a dimension
may change and NOT be updated in all locations.
This potential problem can still happen if one is NOT using associative dimensions AND in the habit of overriding the dimension value(s).
It also reduces clutter.
Just FYI, I am not in the habit of overriding dimension values, the fact that I am doing it in this drawing is irritating me.
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stop doing that....drop box me your file and I'll see what you need to do to 'fix' your dimension issue
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I attempted to open that file and this popped up this morning:
:wideeyed2: What is it and what should I do with it? :?
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LOAD.....and calm down
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to read more:
http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Error-An-executable-file-was-found-outside-of-the-specified-trusted-locations.html (http://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Error-An-executable-file-was-found-outside-of-the-specified-trusted-locations.html)
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This drawing was giving me the same problem...yesterday. Now it is not...? However, now the dimension arrows don't stick again.
What am I doing wrong??? :blink:
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they seem fine to me....
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they seem fine to me....
:-P
:grumpy:
I am sure it's me...I will keep looking...and looking, and looking...
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or use the file I sent you....even the paperspace dimensions appear to be fine
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....even the paperspace dimensions appear to be fine
:sick:
looking at paperspace...never had a problem there...
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is that a dimension should only be shown in one place,
why is that?
In theory (dating to manual drafting) it reduces the chance that a dimension
may change and NOT be updated in all locations.
This potential problem can still happen if one is NOT using associative dimensions AND in the habit of overriding the dimension value(s).
I thought it might of stemmed from something like that but using a annotative you would only have one dimension and would never need to worry about updating any other.
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Having things dimensioned in one place in the drawing sets, and only one place also makes it easier on the contractor. If the same thing is dimensioned on multiple sheets, he'll need to look at all of them, and verify that the same distance is shown on each one. He certainly can't trust the paper/pdf copy to have identical numbers everywhere they are supposed to.