TheSwamp

Code Red => AutoLISP (Vanilla / Visual) => Topic started by: ChrisCarlson on April 04, 2014, 04:27:25 PM

Title: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: ChrisCarlson on April 04, 2014, 04:27:25 PM
If you as the developer set your app as free in the Exchange, please do NOT cripple it by requiring registration and or a license key to utilize he full function.

In this example I'll talk about

"BatchInEditor" By CADManagerTools

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2d7v529.jpg)

It's listed as Free and offers no advice or guidance that the app is a "trial" and that unless you purchase you can only edit 3 documents per session. Please fix your app or revise the description.



/end rant

Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: irneb on April 07, 2014, 05:51:36 AM
I'm with you on the fact that something needs to state what it is and/or requires, or that if it states something it needs to provide what it states. I do not believe everything needs to be free though, if a programmer spends his time on making it - then he's allowed to ask for compensation in exchange for its use.

Unfortunately this thing seems to be the norm these days: a form of bait to get people to use the app and only later find that if they want to continue using it (or use it in anything but a test scenario) they need to pay. Many an AppStore "free" app does this too, and equally heats my blood.

If it's shareware, then it should state thus - and have its restrictions spelled out (i.e. only usable for a limited time and/or volume). If it's "freeware" then it should not charge for its use. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be used correctly in all cases.

I'm fine with something like a "lite" version as freeware with some omissions in its functionality (if it's clearly indicated thus) with a "full" commercial version also available. And I think it should have been done this way for the addon you're using as example if not listed as shareware.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: kruuger on April 07, 2014, 07:49:58 AM
If you as the developer set your app as free in the Exchange, please do NOT cripple it by requiring registration and or a license key to utilize he full function.

In this example I'll talk about

"BatchInEditor" By CADManagerTools

(http://i60.tinypic.com/2d7v529.jpg)

It's listed as Free and offers no advice or guidance that the app is a "trial" and that unless you purchase you can only edit 3 documents per session. Please fix your app or revise the description.



/end rant
i always leave negative review. maybe next time they stop doing this.
it is annoying. some kind of cheating for me.
romek
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: ChrisCarlson on April 07, 2014, 08:16:07 AM
I'm with you on the fact that something needs to state what it is and/or requires, or that if it states something it needs to provide what it states. I do not believe everything needs to be free though, if a programmer spends his time on making it - then he's allowed to ask for compensation in exchange for its use.

Unfortunately this thing seems to be the norm these days: a form of bait to get people to use the app and only later find that if they want to continue using it (or use it in anything but a test scenario) they need to pay. Many an AppStore "free" app does this too, and equally heats my blood.

If it's shareware, then it should state thus - and have its restrictions spelled out (i.e. only usable for a limited time and/or volume). If it's "freeware" then it should not charge for its use. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be used correctly in all cases.

I'm fine with something like a "lite" version as freeware with some omissions in its functionality (if it's clearly indicated thus) with a "full" commercial version also available. And I think it should have been done this way for the addon you're using as example if not listed as shareware.

I have no qualms with purchasing software or donating to a freeware if it some how makes my job easier which in turns makes the company I'm working for more money. However this bait and switch is annoying and devious.

Although it appears to be poor development as the registration key is free, the process of email a request with pertinent info is simply buried in the help file.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: MP on April 07, 2014, 08:20:13 AM
In a word "surprises", unless in the form of an unexpected bonus are really, really bad. If an app is cripple ware, it should say plainly in the initial advert, not something you discover once installed. It's a really stupid, backfiring strategy.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: irneb on April 07, 2014, 08:45:14 AM
I have no qualms with purchasing software or donating to a freeware if it some how makes my job easier which in turns makes the company I'm working for more money. However this bait and switch is annoying and devious.
So we're in exact agreement. No-one should expect everything for free, but once something says it's free (without further qualification) then it should be free in total, not some hidden back-track on what was promised. If it's not fully free then it should state thus.

Although it appears to be poor development as the registration key is free, the process of email a request with pertinent info is simply buried in the help file.
This actually scares me more than simply a "free" software which requires later purchase & activation. It sounds more like a form of phishing.

It's a really stupid, backfiring strategy.
+1 ... at least to those who do think about it before they then go and purchase and/or give their personal info away. Unfortunately there's quite a few suckers falling for these things, else they'd all quickly disappear.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: Jeff H on April 07, 2014, 10:47:44 AM
Where I come from that is usually called "trial" or "free version has limited functionality."
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: Matt__W on April 07, 2014, 10:59:55 AM
Am I the only one that read it as "BitchinEditor"?   :lol:    :-P
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: BlackBox on April 07, 2014, 11:41:09 AM
FWIW -

As one who has a small handful of apps published at Autodesk Exchange, I completely agree that Free should mean Free, with no strings... While only one of my 'live' apps are Free at this time (I have several others coming), the rest of my apps are still only $1.00 at this point (of which I only see +/- $0.60 after PayPal's cut).

The issue being noted in the OP could have been easily mitigated, had the app developer instead simply selected the Trial option, instead of Free... If you've not already done so, you might consider sending them an email about this.

Cheers

Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: mjfarrell on April 07, 2014, 11:49:45 AM
I must agree.

This sort of bait and switch or 'gotcha' approach is more than a little annoying.

There are far too many "sign up for FREE trial" nonsense that want your credit card or other information
upfront, that I refuse to engage in. As what they are counting on is that you will forget to cancel within the set time limit
and then simply start to charge you the monthly or annual fees.  That sort of devious business model
is no way to endear your company, service, or product to most.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: BlackBox on April 07, 2014, 12:04:04 PM
This sort of bait and switch or 'gotcha' approach is more than a little annoying.

If the customer contact is somehow insufficient, negative feedback posted to their app page at Autodesk Exchange should fend off unsuspecting recipients.

There are far too many "sign up for FREE trial" nonsense that want your credit card or other information
upfront, that I refuse to engage in. As what they are counting on is that you will forget to cancel within the set time limit
and then simply start to charge you the monthly or annual fees.  That sort of devious business model
is no way to endear your company, service, or product to most.

While costly on the developer side, thankfully, this level of 'transaction intimacy' is precluded by the use of PayPal for Autodesk Exchange Apps.  :-)

Cheers
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: mjfarrell on April 07, 2014, 12:07:25 PM
'transaction intimacy'

Cheers

Such a polite way of saying getting s[&ew*d.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: BlackBox on April 07, 2014, 12:17:13 PM
'transaction intimacy'

Cheers

Such a polite way of saying getting s[&ew*d.

I meant it more in the context of level of detail one willingly offers the would-be offender(s)... You're not forced to subscribe to their services, you seek them out, you willingly pay for it, and then have buyer's remorse after they've had their way with you.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: LE3 on April 07, 2014, 12:20:59 PM
Got curios, and went to their web place, and it is somehow clear in there that their tools are marked as 'freeware'... maybe on the AE place there is no option for this type.... still, they need to add a comment line on their tool description that it is not a 'free' app.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: Locke on April 07, 2014, 12:49:05 PM
+/- $0.60 after PayPal's cut.

Flat fee or percentage?
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: BlackBox on April 07, 2014, 12:51:20 PM
+/- $0.60 after PayPal's cut.

Flat fee or percentage?

... Approx 33% per transaction.

[Edit] - Since my apps are only $1 at this time, I am unsure if there's a max (i.e., 33% up to $10, etc.).
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: Locke on April 07, 2014, 12:58:52 PM
+/- $0.60 after PayPal's cut.

Flat fee or percentage?

... Approx 33% per transaction.

[Edit] - Since my apps are only $1 at this time, I am unsure if there's a max (i.e., 33% up to $10, etc.).

Ouch.  Not cool PayPal.  Not cool.
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: LE3 on April 07, 2014, 01:09:10 PM
+/- $0.60 after PayPal's cut.

Flat fee or percentage?

... Approx 33% per transaction.

[Edit] - Since my apps are only $1 at this time, I am unsure if there's a max (i.e., 33% up to $10, etc.).

Wow -- wonder if it worth all the effort to put together a tool and on that price, and apart the time that might end up spending on providing support...
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: BlackBox on April 07, 2014, 01:21:42 PM
+/- $0.60 after PayPal's cut.

Flat fee or percentage?

... Approx 33% per transaction.

[Edit] - Since my apps are only $1 at this time, I am unsure if there's a max (i.e., 33% up to $10, etc.).

Ouch.  Not cool PayPal.  Not cool.

If you think that's bad....

I recently participated in Autodesk's Portathon (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?150986-Autodesk-Exchange-Apps-Portathon) event, which was a lot of fun, and I got paid handsomely for each app I published (4 of 5 apps max, per developer).

When all was said and done, they wanted to pay us via PayPal (which I was aware of from the outset), and I had to jump through some (albeit worthwhile) hoops in order to receive direct deposit. The only issue with the latter, was that their 3rd party payment company took a percentage in addition to my banks $19.00 fee for international payments (even though Autodesk said they wouldn't do that). I still ended up with a great deal more of what I earned, than had I used PayPal, so it all worked out.



Back to the thread topic; as a developer, my only issues are that I just wish they'd leave formatting alone.

I submit an app pages content with my app submittal. It has paragraph formatting within it's HTML, and some app pages maintain it, other seem to remove it. Some of the developer links (like to my homepage, etc.) 'show' fine, but are linked improperly. I check the back-end content I uploaded and it is correct.

Worst IMHO, is that I submit an app .bundle in accordance with the criteria, and what I receive back for final review prior to having an update 'go live' is different than what I submitted, but they don't bother to inform me of what changes they've unilaterally, and inconsistently made to each-and-every-single app (I have 4 pending updates). Some examples of the changes I mean, are that they've renamed directories in my app's .bundle, they've modified my PackageContents.xml file - and I don't mean just adding additional header content for the apps store purposes, they've added XmlAttributes, and even added Command XmlNodes, and XmlAttributes to demand-load an event-based plug-in that is supposed to execute at Initialize().

As a developer I find each instance of this not only frustrating, but confusing... It seems like each app reviewer does what they want, and inconsistently at that. All of my apps are similarly structured for simplicity, and seemingly what's fine in one app is not in another that implements similar functionality (basic context menus, nothing advanced at all). I want to provide quality app content to would-be customers, just as I do for my daily work supporting users here.

If I've done something incorrectly, point it out, offer guidance, and I'll learn... Unilateral, and unannounced changes to something I am ultimately responsible for according to prospective customers is frankly unacceptable... Ultimately, this is why I've delayed multiple app updates, which I submitted late last year, between now having to go through each one-by-one to determine what, if anything, has changed, and then address the merit individually, documenting my comments, etc. and re-submitting to Autodesk for review. Having started a new job +/- 60 days ago, with substantially greater responsibilities, I've simply not made the time for this, let alone dig into SincPac with Jeff (I feel bad for both, but need to get to a plateau first).

/rant
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: BlackBox on April 07, 2014, 01:29:52 PM
+/- $0.60 after PayPal's cut.

Flat fee or percentage?

... Approx 33% per transaction.

[Edit] - Since my apps are only $1 at this time, I am unsure if there's a max (i.e., 33% up to $10, etc.).

Wow -- wonder if it worth all the effort to put together a tool and on that price, and apart the time that might end up spending on providing support...

It's not... I'm certainly not doing it for the money. LoL

My first published app (Right Click Rename (http://apps.exchange.autodesk.com/ACD/en/Detail/Index?id=appstore.exchange.autodesk.com%3arightclickrenameforautocad%3aen)) took me a long while to work out being that I am so new to .NET development, and I had to go through the app submittal criteria (i.e., CUIx, help file, PackageContents.xml, etc.). It was very much a learning process for me, but I felt it important not to pass that initial cost onto others for ultimately, such a simple app.

I maintained that model, and continued to enhance it with each subsequent app submittal, to where I am now with pending updates.

Other apps will warrant a higher fee, but for now, I'm offering a small amount of my work for what I consider to be a reasonable fee that covers the legitimate work (not learning) that was invested in these simple, not simplistic, and hopefully elegant apps.

Cheers
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: ChrisCarlson on April 07, 2014, 01:33:15 PM
I think the developer in this sense is just wanting to know the clientelle. Maybe AE doesn't show this information?

Information requested

a.     Your name/Company name
b.    Product name (Batch-In-Editor or Batch-In-Database)
c.     Product Version (v1.0)
d.    Product serial number
e.     Request Code
f.     Build version(1.0.1.2)
g.    Country/State name

At the end of the day this app now works perfectly as advertised, and should it run correctly it will save on editing 12800 drawings. At 30~ seconds to open, edit the xref location and save, we are looking at 107 labor hours of savings. :fingers crossed:
Title: Re: A little rant about AutoDesk Exchange
Post by: BlackBox on April 07, 2014, 01:35:29 PM
Maybe AE doesn't show this information?

FWIW -

At any time, an app publisher can download the data associated with a given app they've published, which is a .CSV breakdown of each download transaction, and contains the user's Autodesk Exchange account information.

Not all information is required, and many users leave their employer, country, etc. blank.

Cheers