TheSwamp
Code Red => AutoLISP (Vanilla / Visual) => Topic started by: Amsterdammed on November 18, 2011, 07:11:28 AM
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Hello there,
i heard here from a developer that Autodesk plan to axe lisp in Acad2014 as they did with VBA in Acad2012.
does anybody know if this is true?
Thanks
Bernd
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I've heard this exact same rumor with every release since, oh, about the time of AutoCAD 2000i.
Personally I think it would be damned foolish of Autodesk to do so.
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Well, given that the VBA enabler is still being provided in the AutoCAD 2014 Beta (Dun-uh, dun-uh, dun-uh), and there is no need for a separate Visual LISP enabler (as it is included), I'd say it's a safe bet the rumor is not true. :wink:
However, unless Autodesk actually improves the AutoLISP & Visual LISP (ActiveX COM) APIs, more and more users will migrate to C#/VB.NET and/or ObjectARX (C++ for AutoCAD) out of necessity... Especially for those of us who use verticals (i.e., Civil 3D, etc.). :-(
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Well, given that the VBA enabler is still being provided in the AutoCAD 2014 Beta (Dun-uh, dun-uh, dun-uh), and there is no need for a separate Visual LISP enabler (as it is included), I'd say it's a safe bet the rumor is not true. :wink:
However, unless Autodesk actually improves the AutoLISP & Visual LISP (ActiveX COM) APIs, more and more users will migrate to C#/VB.NET and/or ObjectARX (C++ for AutoCAD) out of necessity... Especially for those of us who use verticals (i.e., Civil 3D, etc.). :-(
I agree completely on this. Lisp will always be there, but fewer and fewer people will use it for serious development.
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Thanks Gentlemen!
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Well, given that the VBA enabler is still being provided in the AutoCAD 2014 Beta (Dun-uh, dun-uh, dun-uh), and there is no need for a separate Visual LISP enabler (as it is included), I'd say it's a safe bet the rumor is not true. :wink:
However, unless Autodesk actually improves the AutoLISP & Visual LISP (ActiveX COM) APIs, more and more users will migrate to C#/VB.NET and/or ObjectARX (C++ for AutoCAD) out of necessity... Especially for those of us who use verticals (i.e., Civil 3D, etc.). :-(
I agree completely on this. Lisp will always be there, but fewer and fewer people will use it for serious development.
It truly is a shame IMO; one cannot even use vlax-dump-object on some (most?) of the newer AECC* Objects in Civil 3D. Visual LISP is capable, Autodesk just needs to expose the API features.
You may find this to be of interest, about post #17: http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=28037&page=2 (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=28037&page=2)
Also this: http://alisp-ext.wikidot.com/ (http://alisp-ext.wikidot.com/)
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Well, given that the VBA enabler is still being provided in the AutoCAD 2014 Beta (Dun-uh, dun-uh, dun-uh), and there is no need for a separate Visual LISP enabler (as it is included), I'd say it's a safe bet the rumor is not true. :wink:
However, unless Autodesk actually improves the AutoLISP & Visual LISP (ActiveX COM) APIs, more and more users will migrate to C#/VB.NET and/or ObjectARX (C++ for AutoCAD) out of necessity... Especially for those of us who use verticals (i.e., Civil 3D, etc.). :-(
I agree completely on this. Lisp will always be there, but fewer and fewer people will use it for serious development.
It truly is a shame IMO; one cannot even use vlax-dump-object on some (most?) of the newer AECC* Objects in Civil 3D. Visual LISP is capable, Autodesk just needs to expose the API features.
You may find this to be of interest, about post #17: http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=28037&page=2 (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=28037&page=2)
Also this: http://alisp-ext.wikidot.com/ (http://alisp-ext.wikidot.com/)
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=40106.0
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Even simple, small things like (command "._xattach") are subject to Autodesk's supposed enhanced functionality. In 2011/2012 the command is forced into command line version if not immediately preceded by (initdia). I'm just glad it was an easy fix.
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Even simple, small things like (command "._xattach") are subject to Autodesk's supposed enhanced functionality. In 2011/2012 the command is forced into command line version if not immediately preceded by (initdia). I'm just glad it was an easy fix.
Almost all dialog driven commands work like that.
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Even simple, small things like (command "._xattach") are subject to Autodesk's supposed enhanced functionality. In 2011/2012 the command is forced into command line version if not immediately preceded by (initdia). I'm just glad it was an easy fix.
Almost all dialog driven commands work like that.
Yeah... now! LoL
As of Land Desktop / Land Enabled Map / Civil 3D 2009 that was not the case. We skipped 2010, and jumped into 2011. Separately (from the rest of the company), I am also using 2012 per FDOT Civil 3D 2012 State Kit Beta.
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One of the biggest selling points of acad is that you can simply program it you dont need compilers and a IT degree to write code. Vl was a huge boost to common lisp. yeah .Net is out there but old fashioned lisp is still easy.
Will Autodesk though go down the path like CorelCAD and there macro record writes .Net code much like word and excel writes VBA. I would expect we will get a big warning about no lisp, the world would revolt there is just to much stuff out there. A lisp to xxx language would probbaly be their only way out of this dilemma.
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I think it basically boils down to this.
Does it cost them much effort to maintain AutoLISP from release to release?
NO.
Would it cost more money than they would want to spend to update AutoLISP?
YES.
Would it be better to spend resources on a new approach that is better suited to also work wel with PC and MAC?
Not goning to answer
Would that mean that would also have to spend resources to update it and also have to maintain and add new to functionality to the IDE.
YES.
I do not think it will go anywhere until they do a big change and it is not worth trying to update.
I do not know maybe if a do re-write to add multi-threaded capability or something, but I would not worry about it.
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From an ex-lisper, and what all said about Rock n' Roll....
Here it is for you Lispers the port of an old song-code - Have fun:
AutoLisp 'n VLisp is here to stay,
it will never die
It was meant to be that way,
though I don't know why
I don't care what people say,
AutoLisp 'n VLisp is here to stay
(We don't care what people say, AutoLisp 'n VLisp is here to stay)
AutoLisp 'n VLisp will always be
our ticket to the end
It will go down in history,
just you wait, my friend
AutoLisp 'n VLisp will always be,
it'll go down in history
(AutoLisp 'n VLisp will always be, it'll go down in history)
So come on,
everybody lisp,
everybody lisp,
everybody lisp,
everybody lisp
Everybody lisp
Now everybody AutoLisp 'n VLisp,
everybody AutoLisp 'n VLisp,
everybody AutoLisp 'n VLisp
Everybody AutoLisp 'n VLisp,
everybody AutoLisp 'n VLisp
AutoLisp 'n VLisp will always be
our ticket to the end
It will go down in history,
just you wait, my friend
AutoLisp 'n VLisp will always be,
it'll go down in history
If you don't like AutoLisp 'n VLisp,
think what you've been missin'
But if you like to bop and strawl,
come on down and listen
Let's all start to have a ball,
everybody AutoLisp 'n VLisp
Ah, oh baby, ah, oh baby, ah, oh baby, ah, oh baby, lisp!
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Yes Jeff, Return On Investment is the key ... and Mac is the wildcard.
The last I heard from unnamed sources is that "There are no plans at this stage for AutoCAD to discard AutoLisp or VisualLisp".
It's a pity that the ActiveX documentation for VisualLisp has never been completed .. The lack of this documentation makes it difficult for new customisers who want to make use of the powerful vla- vlax function library.
Having said that, I don't believe the lack of ActiveX documentation is any indicator of AutoDesk intent regarding continuation of the availability of Lisp ;
It's more a reflection of AutoDesks typical disregard of developers.
Regards.
ps:
In the event that anyone with any clout at AutoDesk comes across this thread ; Seriously, how much would it cost to produce and check ActiveX documentation for VisualLisp
... and how much would that reduce the shareholder payout assuming that there was no increase in revenue as a result of happier customisers expressing their satisfaction to their boss.
Ditto for the .NET API
Cute Luis :)
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Having said that, I don't believe the lack of ActiveX documentation is any indicator of AutoDesk intent regarding continuation of the availability of Lisp ;
It's more a reflection of AutoDesks typical disregard of developers.
I'm sure the developers are OK for the most part - they are using dotNET and/or ObjectARX to do their thing so the ActiveX documentation is rendered moot. Its more the CAD Support personnel doing casual/in-house development work that are affected.
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Having said that, I don't believe the lack of ActiveX documentation is any indicator of AutoDesk intent regarding continuation of the availability of Lisp ;
It's more a reflection of AutoDesks typical disregard of developers.
I'm sure the developers are OK for the most part - they are using dotNET and/or ObjectARX to do their thing so the ActiveX documentation is rendered moot. Its more the CAD Support personnel doing casual/in-house development work that are affected.
even vital lisp was incomplete - don't recall having a full info or help.... btw (wonder if all that activex basis did, could be much easier if it is ported to simple arx and then export functions from there as normal autolisp - maybe adesk guys will end up doing this to be use from the mac side).
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From an ex-lisper, and what all said about Rock n' Roll....
Here it is for you Lispers the port of an old song-code - Have fun:
AutoLisp 'n VLisp is here to stay,
it will never die
It was meant to be that way,
................
...............
............
You can't help but sing that in a cool way.
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You can't help but sing that in a cool way.
"uh uh uh, uh uh uh uh uh ..."
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Same argument pops up every couple of releases.
I recon it gets started by the jealous microstation lovers
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Same argument pops up every couple of releases.
I recon it gets started by the jealous microstation lovers
My vote goes for customizers newly indoctrinated into VBA or dotNET or whatever the latest "new" thing is. Nobody more zealous than a recent convert.
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I think LISP will be around for a long time to come. It is simple to learn, compared to many other options, it works well and maintains compatibility between releases. You can still use LISP on the Mac as well, although some functions do not work (yet, I think they will add more as time goes on). It makes AutoCAD far more useful and more importantly easier to market, which to AutoDesk means $$$.
So, really, it makes sense to me that they will keep it for a long time.
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wonder if all that activex basis did, could be much easier if it is ported to simple arx and then export functions from there as normal autolisp
VL.arx
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wonder if all that activex basis did, could be much easier if it is ported to simple arx and then export functions from there as normal autolisp
VL.arx
The Activex or ATL COM they did it is compiled as .arx extension - was commenting about that. :)