TheSwamp
CAD Forums => CAD General => CAD Standards => Topic started by: craigr on June 09, 2010, 08:52:37 AM
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When drawing a line, say horizontal, 100' - Is it acceptable to drawi it in segments rather than ONE line?
We do mostly electrical dwgs. I have been trying to get our guys to stop drawing single lines in segments. When moving the lines, it is very annoying to only grab part of the line.
Sometimes there are even lines that have another one beneath it.
To me, this is just sloopy CAD work.
Is it tolerated in your place?
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Only one line is acceptable.
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No. That is one of my pet peeves. Someone needs to learn the Extend or Stretch commands... and have their knuckles rapped so they don't forget it.
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Not acceptable here either. Its on my pet-peeves list. It is shoddy drafting and should be stopped, the sooner the better. Somebody here does it, but alas, it seems to be "Mr/Mrs Nobody" so we cant track it down.
It was one of the first things my trainer taught us years ago (in the days of the pen plotter) as the pen would keep drawing in the same place for as many lines as were there.
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overkill
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why not STOP using lines altogether, and ONLY draw polylines instead; in this manner the whole line would get moved, and not one segment at a time...
In the Civil world, polylines are also preferred as C3D has many tools designed to convert them into things like Alignments, and or Pipe Networks.
In my world polylines are preferred for better than 95% of everything I ever draw.
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In I&E, polylines are overkill most of the time. They have their uses, I suppose.
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yeah, plines work for us here but not in all situations and those drawings where folks draw multiple lines to represent a single line .. makes me want to choke someome
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In I&E, polylines are overkill most of the time. They have their uses, I suppose.
What is 'I&E' ?
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Instrumentation & Electrical
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Instrumentation & Electrical
funny .. I never did any instrumentation, but with every electrical schematic I have ever had the pleasure of working on, it was mandatory to use plines .. but then maybe your electrical is different from schematics and wiring plans
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one line
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In I&E, polylines are overkill most of the time. They have their uses, I suppose.
curious..how is a polyline overkill for this use...a (poly)line on a layer connecting to connection points on a diagram?
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yes, that is acceptable; in fact i recommend putting several lines on top of each other all on different layers. I also like to have items with different start and end z values.
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I don't see what PLines are soooo much better than regular lines.
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Instrumentation & Electrical
funny .. I never did any instrumentation, but with every electrical schematic I have ever had the pleasure of working on, it was mandatory to use plines .. but then maybe your electrical is different from schematics and wiring plans
same here, be it for liftstation pump wiring, or traffic control, and or the occasional Rack Mount Diagram with patch panel routing...all polylines
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I don't see what PLines are soooo much better than regular lines.
because you still use lines when you should use polylines :wink:
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If you don't use polylines on your electrical diagrams, the electricity won't flow through them. Plain and simple.
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...... I also like to have items with different start and end z values.
We have one guy here that I swear he would do this if he thought of it! - Just to 'get away with it'.
We do all 2d, so I would never catch that. - Hey, maybe I should check, he may have been doing that for years!!
craigr
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If you don't use polylines on your electrical diagrams, the electricity won't flow through them. Plain and simple.
:lmao: :lmao:
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When drawing a line, say horizontal, 100' - Is it acceptable to drawi it in segments rather than ONE line?
We do mostly electrical dwgs. I have been trying to get our guys to stop drawing single lines in segments. When moving the lines, it is very annoying to only grab part of the line.
Sometimes there are even lines that have another one beneath it.
To me, this is just sloopy CAD work.
Is it tolerated in your place?
Would it be that the file or line work was created and used over many projects by many users? I have hound instances like this where the first user has created a polyline and then the following user who hates polylines explodes them. Thus creating segmented lines.
As for lines on top of each other, in our office with using architectural desktop's detail component tools will result with two lines on top of each other. (I.e. (2) layers of GWB, the interior faces will have lines on top of each other.) Then my more archaic users will come along behind me and explode them. :realmad: Thus getting lines on top of each other.
If it is for P&ID or I&E drawings then the users need to be shot, the drawn and quartered and then keel hauled and then shot again just to make sure the point is understood.
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nice KROSHOS...want to proof that again, and kill the hounds?
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Even when you're using a pline, if it's one continuous line, why not make it so? There's no need to have multiple segments to make up a single straight line... in my opinion, anyway.
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The trouble is that if / when the subject is brought to management / non-CAD users, their response is typically 'it looks fine when printed, so there is no problem'
I know this isn't a HUGE deal, but it's annoying when I get bit by a line that is 'floating' in the middle of the screen, because I moved one and didn't notice there was one beneath it.
Bottom line, apparently it isn't just me that is annoyed with this. Perhaps I will chase it down a little more.
Thanks for all of the responses,
craigr
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The trouble is that if / when the subject is brought to management / non-CAD users, their response is typically 'it looks fine when printed, so there is no problem'
I know this isn't a HUGE deal, but it's annoying when I get bit by a line that is 'floating' in the middle of the screen, because I moved one and didn't notice there was one beneath it.
Bottom line, apparently it isn't just me that is annoyed with this. Perhaps I will chase it down a little more.
Thanks for all of the responses,
craigr
OH NO! You are totally right to be annoyed, as it shows sloppy workmanship. And you have no idea the total amount of wasted profits it creates. Using lines alone isn't a bad thing until you consider that in some operations they require 50% more clicks to perform the edit operation, and in other instances as much as 400% more clicks to perform the task. Factor in the additional edits this sloppy workmanship is adding to the process, and you have every right to be annoyed. Yeah it plots OK; however it's still costing you profits.
However; when you explain to your users why you want them to start using polylines; I wouldn't tell them it's because the 'lectricity wont flow if'n they don't' as the reason for doing so. ;-)
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Polylines vs Lines
Take 5293!
If you were to have an outline of something that is made up of lines and needed to grab that outline, you would need to select all the lines that made up that outline. If the same outline were made of a single polyline, then all you would need to do is to pick that polyline once. The difference between the two methods becomes greater as the amount of detail surounding the geometry increases.
I haven't drawn a "Line" in probably 10 years or more.
As far as the original topic, multiple lines to make up one single 100' line would be unacceptable, with the exception being that the line/polyline needed to have increments for placement of other geometry based on it's endpoints.
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That reminds me of another huge pet peeve of mine... When I come across a drawing covered in rev clouds that are made up of individual arcs... and what makes it worse is when they're all on the same layer as most of the other garbage in the drawing... it just takes forever to delete them.
Yeah, plines certainly have their uses.
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nice KROSHOS...want to proof that again, and kill the hounds?
Feel better that you got that out of your system?
Now can we get back to the discussion at hand like adults.
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nice KROSHOS...want to proof that again, and kill the hounds?
Feel better that you got that out of your system?
Now can we get back to the discussion at hand like adults.
you invented the term, not me :wink:
decidedly, multiple segments where none should exist is NOT acceptable
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IT comes down to education the user but no matter what you throw at them or threaten them with. if they do not not want to change and management will not back you up, there is nothing you can do to get them to change.
:|
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I'll pop extra points into a colinear pline if I want to use it for snap points, sometimes. Would seem gratuitous to someone who is unaware of my process, but it has saved me some time, and helped retain reference points without having distracting construction lines or point-objects screwing with my visual.
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You have a point. Not all practices are relevant in all disciplines of drafting. I know one person I work with goes absolutely crazy over objects not being on snap. I'm talking F9 snap... not Osnap. Again, in I & E, snap makes cadding much faster and easier (and cleaner) in many drawings, but not in all drawings. In mechanical drawings, for example, snap has almost no use ever being turned on... unless you just want to annoy yourself.
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Wow!
I didn't mean to stir anything up. I was just curious if I was being too 'obsessive'.
BTW, I am one of those guys that are obsessed with things being drawn on snap, .05 with lines being 3 snaps apart, (with few exceptions). Granted, I didn't come up with these standards, we all did. But I am the one assigned to maintain them.
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In drawings where snap is relevant, I am also a stickler, but many drawing types, snap is irrelevant.
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I don't think you are being obsessive at all. If that guy is putting different z values at the ends of his lines, your length of that line will be in 3d, not good if you draft in 2d.
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That reminds me of another huge pet peeve of mine... When I come across a drawing covered in rev clouds that are made up of individual arcs... and what makes it worse is when they're all on the same layer as most of the other garbage in the drawing... it just takes forever to delete them.
Yeah, plines certainly have their uses.
I isolate the layer, then pedit and join with window crossing. very simple and quick
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Hey, that's a good idea!!
I would never have thought of that.
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That reminds me of another huge pet peeve of mine... When I come across a drawing covered in rev clouds that are made up of individual arcs... and what makes it worse is when they're all on the same layer as most of the other garbage in the drawing... it just takes forever to delete them.
Yeah, plines certainly have their uses.
I isolate the layer, then pedit and join with window crossing. very simple and quick
I do that, but sometimes, they decided the cloud had to break every time it crossed another object. You're right though... it makes a really monotonous task a little easier to take.
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mpedit FTW
+fuzz factor
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Every solution that gets posted will eventually be shot down by some idiot who should not be cadding. :)
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Every solution that gets posted will eventually be shot down by some idiot who should not be cadding. :)
You met my boss, I take it.
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mpedit FTW
+fuzz factor
I still use the pljoin function included in the Expresstools from R2000 .. fewer clicks and keystrokes
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Every solution that gets posted will eventually be shot down by some idiot who should not be cadding. :)
You met my boss, I take it.
Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you... he said something about flattening all of your drawings because "we print these drawings in 2D, not 3D". I think he exploded all your blocks, too.
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Programatically (breaking crossing lines, breaking lines for inserting blocks, healing breaks) LINEs are easier to handle than PLINEs. There's also a problem I see with PLINEs on P&IDs, where a line that goes horizontal then down needs to be modified so the down part is a branch. Users will typically just run a new polyline starting at or ending at the corner rather than re-run the entire line. So now that PLINE you are trying to work with (for example, add tracing graphics) that you *think* is just going across the page doesn't. Or trying to snap to a mid-point or end only to find all colinear segments. :doa: Would rather just have lines to work with.
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There are pros & cons to both sides. The answer seems to be be accurate and keep yer drawings clean.
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I don't think you are being obsessive at all. If that guy is putting different z values at the ends of his lines, your length of that line will be in 3d, not good if you draft in 2d.
Would be a neat trick in LT
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You CAN draw 3D in LT, but it is difficult to do.
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The trouble is that if / when the subject is brought to management / non-CAD users, their response is typically 'it looks fine when printed, so there is no problem'
There would be a problem if the drawings take longer to edit (and create in the first place!) My suggestion... Each time you have to edit one of these drawings make a note of how much extra time it takes you to edit it. Management would then (hopefully) realise it is a problem, no matter how good it looks on screen :)
It is something I do when I have to edit some unknowledgeable/lazy-drafters drawings, so I can justify my time spent on a crappy drawing.
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I made my own polylinejoin function that makes one line out of all lines that are in one direction as lines under lines mess up our cnc, it's been pretty handy. But like you say multiple line segs are not acceptable.
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Tracey makes an excellent point in keeping notes of time spent on fixing these sort of things. On our timesheets, there are places to add this kind of info so it winds up right in management's face.
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In my world polylines are preferred for better than 95% of everything I ever draw.
The biggest problem I run into with polylines in the Civil world is that some commands (namely Line/Curve from end of object) do not work on them. I regularly need to explode polylines (or trim off the last segment and explode it, or draw a temporary line/curve over the last segment, etc.) in order to use these commands. And FILLET regularly gives poor results on polylines - I often have to explode a polyline in order to use FILLET on it, or use the TTR option to draw a circle, and then hand-create the fillet by trimming the polyline and circle.
Then there are the problems with polylines in C3D Parcels. I still use them a lot, because there are also advantages to using polylines to create Parcels. But they can have bizarre side-effects, due to bugs in the program, such as "jumping labels" if you have to later edit the line. And by simply grabbing a Parcel Label and moving it to the dragged state, I have had all Parcels along a polyline reset, with all Parcel info (number, styles, UDPs, etc.) returning to default values. And there's more.
But I still use polylines a lot. I just often find the need to flip things back and forth between polylines and lines/arcs.
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In my world polylines are preferred for better than 95% of everything I ever draw.
But I still use polylines a lot. I just often find the need to flip things back and forth between polylines and lines/arcs.
SINC, without going so far as to be accused of hijacking the discussion, the issues you mention are part of the core of my complaints in regards interoperability of ALL of autodesks' products; not only when mixing 'VERTICAL' applications, within the various products themselves. Most of the issues you discuss are simple laziness to not upgrade the OLD Land Desktop Lines and curves commands to function like other C3D tools. If they had one would get a prompt similar to the Create Feature Line From Object tool:Select lines, arcs, polylines or 3d polylines to convert to feature lines or
[Xref]:
And the tool would work with any and or all of those options. This isn't a 'wish list' it's a 'consistency' across the interface issue.
The issues with the parcel lines; is the same only in reverse. As in; IF they are going to allow one to use polylines, they should verify that normal polyline editing functions do not cause parcels made from them to behave erratically.
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.... to explode your blocks.
Nobody cares! :x
Nobody freaken cares anymore! :realmad: