TheSwamp
Code Red => AutoLISP (Vanilla / Visual) => Topic started by: Aerdvark on June 08, 2010, 02:31:02 AM
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This is whats going on:
My principal (cliënt if you will) always receives the drawings on paper (by old fashioned postman) and also digital as *.pdf. Some of them ask for *.dwg and I have no problem with that.
But, I know there are a few amongst them that keep asking for the *.dwg version of whatever I make. I am sure they have other purposes with it like extracting the blocks out of the drawing to use for uwn purposes. I have a lot of nice blocks, regular and dynamic ones.
Most times I have no problem with that... but in some cases I would like to say NO, I will not send you the *.dwg. It is a personal problem that I have with some people. I am not willing to share. But since I am no boss around here, and it is still the cliënt... :x
How do I prepare my *.dwg so it can be opened, viewed etc. but also becomes very slow, or "un-copy-able" or anything else nice you can wish someone to have. :lmao:
I know this is an odd request but it has come to my mind several times and I need to know.
Yes I am a #%$$@!. :ugly:
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There was a lisp that converted a drawing into text!!! Everything was converted to TEXT and the process was irreversible. The downside is that the files jumped in size.
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export your drawing to wmf file, then import it back
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This is whats going on:
My principal (cliënt if you will) always receives the drawings on paper (by old fashioned postman) and also digital as *.pdf. Some of them ask for *.dwg and I have no problem with that.
But, I know there are a few amongst them that keep asking for the *.dwg version of whatever I make. I am sure they have other purposes with it like extracting the blocks out of the drawing to use for uwn purposes. I have a lot of nice blocks, regular and dynamic ones.
Most times I have no problem with that... but in some cases I would like to say NO, I will not send you the *.dwg. It is a personal problem that I have with some people. I am not willing to share. But since I am no boss around here, and it is still the cliënt... :x
How do I prepare my *.dwg so it can be opened, viewed etc. but also becomes very slow, or "un-copy-able" or anything else nice you can wish someone to have. :lmao:
I know this is an odd request but it has come to my mind several times and I need to know.
Yes I am a #%$$@!. :ugly:
Why don't you export the drawing to dwf or dwfx format?
Hope I didn't misunderstand your point.
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@ Vali:
That would be something... But yes I probably wont be able to mail then (sizes).
@VovKa:
That really messes up but it only exports the current layout. Not model space + layout...
But I will think of it!
@ MEasuseUp:
_export ** 3DDWF publishing is allowed only in Model Tab. **
Hmmpf...
I was thinking more like exploding all blocks but leave visibility as is. But all text and circles should become little dots. All dynamic features should be deleted. But I guess that is too hard to accomplish.
Anyone got more Ideas?
Hit me!
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I suppose you could engineer a LISP to perform as you describe: text/circles becoming dots could be as easy as substituting these objects for points - and there are functions to convert dynamic blocks to standard blocks...
Of course, all of this would be pretty much unreversible.
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I suppose you could engineer a LISP to perform as you describe: text/circles becoming dots could be as easy as substituting these objects for points - and there are functions to convert dynamic blocks to standard blocks...
Of course, all of this would be pretty much unreversible.
Hi Lee,
Yes but with blocks exploded and also changed into small pieces.
Dimensions exploded...
How would I manage to make a drawing slow...
Maybe add a big amount of annotationscales, I know that slows down big time.
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Help me out please, I am stuck with what I believe is called convert real to string...
(defun c:MessUp (/); localize later
(setq MessFactor
(getreal "Enter a Mess-Up-Factor: ")
StartScale
(getreal "Enter the start-up-scale to be incremented: ")
Counter 0
) ; end setq
(while (< Counter MessFactor)
(setq Scale (strcat "1:" (rtos StartScale 2))
Counter (1+ Counter)
StartScale (1+ StartScale)
ScaleName1 (rtos Scale 2)
ScaleName (strcat "Scale: " Scale)
)
(command "-scalelistedit" "a" ScaleName Scale "E")
) ; end while loop
(alert "Done!")
(princ)
)
(princ)
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Haha... I had it working very nicely!
It ended up with an fatal error and I lost a drawing (no problem) and my lisp :realmad:
So that is no option I guess..
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you could embed an auto execute VBA macro that disables any access to VBA (to protect your code) and disables exporting certain features you want to preserve. Remembering of course that VBA will likely go the way of the DoDo very soon ... and that it doesn't work on 64 bit systems (unless of course I missed that memo)
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Are the people giving the OK to send these drawings the same that paid you when you created the blocks?
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Just explode everything. They get the geometry which wouldn't be too tough to generate manually but not your expertise in creating the blocks.
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Are the people giving the OK to send these drawings the same that paid you when you created the blocks?
I do not understand your words Alan, sorry.
We get paid for the job in the fields.
The drawings are to be checked by the principal, to approve.
So therefore: pdf.
But some do ask for the *.dwg and allthough we are not obliged (?) to do so, we do send it.
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I don't know about messing up a drawing, but what you are asking for (and receiving) is a good way to mess up a client relationship.
What is currently in your contract as a deliverable? If for some reason it's not specified clearly, then why don't you sit down with this client and discuss? Why not get on the same page so that you are not paranoid about your deliverable, and your client is getting what he's paying for?
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Although not a draftsman, I completely agree - your reputation and client relationship will be severely tarnished should you send improper drawings.
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I would definitely not mess up the drawings; however, I would agree that exploding blocks before sending is probably the best bet. Alternatively get you company to switch to Revit, then this wouldn't matter.
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I would definitely not mess up the drawings; however, I would agree that exploding blocks before sending is probably the best bet. Alternatively get you company to switch to Revit, then this wouldn't matter.
How so?
As for messing up the drawing. Read your contract carefully and like others said sit down with your client. We have in our standard contract that the dwg is owned by us and remains in our posession. When asked for, we have a standard waiver that must be signed. We supply only the files asked for and sometimes we charged for them. We will typical make a phone call to the requesting party to ask their intentions to see if DWFs will work instead. I will say it again; Read your contract carefully. BTW way it is never too late it revise your contract for the next project. We just did a major overhaul.
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This is whats going on:
My principal (cliënt if you will) always receives the drawings on paper (by old fashioned postman) and also digital as *.pdf. Some of them ask for *.dwg and I have no problem with that.
But, I know there are a few amongst them that keep asking for the *.dwg version of whatever I make. ...
... but in some cases I would like to say NO, I will not send you the *.dwg. ... But since I am no boss around here, and it is still the cliënt... :x
Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.
First, I agree with Alan (alanjt) in regards to who is paying the bill. If the 'client' has in the contract to receive *.dwg's, then as the others have mentioned, it is probably best to send them the *.dwg's.
On the other hand, if there is no agreement in the contract, and they call you or ask over an email, tell them there are proprietary elements in the drawing that constitute copyright infringement if you send them the drawings.
Talk it over with your Boss. Let him/them know you are uncomfortable sending out the office's proprietary information.
Lastly, if you really need to sabotage a drawing, write a simple LiSP that will delete (or just make invisible) all of the blocks and leave in the blocks place a text line that says "Proprietary".
I would prefer invisible, then have another LiSP that will make them visible again so you can continue to use the drawing. Of course there is the risk of "them" figuring that part out.
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Although not a draftsman, I completely agree - your reputation and client relationship will be severely tarnished should you send improper drawings.
I agree entirely.
Drawing exchange is just the normal way to operate for us:
We'll receive survey drawings, standard working drawings, Ordnance Survey data, civil engineering design work. All of these are either essential to us doing our job at all (especially survey drawings, or civil design drawings if we need to tie-in to a new road junction, for example) or extremely useful (receiving standard working drawings dramatically reduced the time needed to produce our site specific planning housetypes and footprints).
We will then send out (always) our planning housetype drawings (useful beyond words to the people producing the site-specific working drawings) and very often our site layout as well if another firm is doing the civil engineering.
I know in the past we've stopped working with firms because their drawings are difficult to work with.
dJE
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Explode/Purge as necessary then, Wblock out the drawing, and MINSERT it into a new drawing with the following criteria: 1 Row, 2 Columns, set the Distance between Columns to Zero. (had to look that up since it's been a while since I've done it).
The client won't be able to explode the block, therefore making modifications to it (virtually) impossible, and you'll still be sending it in DWG format. I think this would be a good solution for you save for a couple others that have been thrown out here (PDF, DWF, etc.).
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I just had an evil thought ... why not corrupt the drawing with an educational block ... but you had better be careful or you will end up corrupting your entire drawing library ....
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I just had an evil thought ... why not corrupt the drawing with an educational block ... but you had better be careful or you will end up corrupting your entire drawing library ....
:lmao: :lmao:
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I just had an evil thought ... why not corrupt the drawing with an educational block ... but you had better be careful or you will end up corrupting your entire drawing library ....
How does that actually happen? Does inserting an educating block make the drawing you inserted it into educational also?
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I just had an evil thought ... why not corrupt the drawing with an educational block ... but you had better be careful or you will end up corrupting your entire drawing library ....
How does that actually happen? Does inserting an educating block make the drawing you inserted it into educational also?
From what I've heard, it's like a virus.
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use BURST to explode your blocks, that way you keep your attributes as text
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Lee, short answer yes. It adds stuff to the database that cannot be purged out via normal means. It can be removed through a very long process of export and import, but its a huge pain. Any dwg corrupted will infect any dwg its inserted into. very nasty
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use BURST to explode your blocks, that way you keep your attributes as text
And for keeping invisible attribs invisible, I'll just plug my program (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=33454.0) :lol:
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Lee, short answer yes. It adds stuff to the database that cannot be purged out via normal means. It can be removed through a very long process of export and import, but its a huge pain. Any dwg corrupted will infect any dwg its inserted into. very nasty
Ahh, gotcha - so if you have an educational drawing, opening/viewing is fine, but problems stem from inserting it into other drawings right?
I'm only checking all this cause I'm using an Educational Version of course... not that I have any drawings to post anyway..
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use BURST to explode your blocks, that way you keep your attributes as text
And for keeping invisible attribs invisible, I'll just plug my program (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=33454.0) :lol:
:roll: :lmao:
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Yes the lock can be undone...
This is want we do, explode the drawing and lock it using:
=====================================================================
New Free Functions/Tools
=====================================================================
Drawing Modification Deterrent
This free tool creates an anonymous minsert of a selection set of
geometry. This is a strong deterrent to prevent changes (by
others) to the drawing because it can’t be exploded or refedited.
Be careful to use only on a *copy* of your drawing you intend to
to send to others!
DETER.VLX in the Free Stuff section of http://www.dotsoft.com.
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I'm only checking all this cause I'm using an Educational Version of course... not that I have any drawings to post anyway..
When you print your dwgs, do you get the water mark?
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I don't really plot anything, but in the preview, yes.
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I don't really plot anything, but in the preview, yes.
So now imagine you are a multi-million dollar company with contracts all over the place and suddenly all of your plotted drawings say "Educational Version" .. that'd be a real hoot for the folks having to clean up that mess ...
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Oh, I'm not saying that I don't agree its a bad thing for drawings to get 'infected', I'm just trying to ascertain how a lot of drawings can get infected from only one...
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Oh, I'm not saying that I don't agree its a bad thing for drawings to get 'infected', I'm just trying to ascertain how a lot of drawings can get infected from only one...
"It's like magic!"
(http://www.diamth.com/duelling/lessons/lockhart.jpg)
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...MINSERT it into a new drawing with the following criteria: 1 Row, 2 Columns, set the Distance between Columns to Zero. (had to look that up since it's been a while since I've done it).
The client won't be able to explode the block, therefore making modifications to it (virtually) impossible...
Not quite. All you have to do is erase the MINSERT and insert a single copy of the block, then explode it.
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Oh, I'm not saying that I don't agree its a bad thing for drawings to get 'infected', I'm just trying to ascertain how a lot of drawings can get infected from only one...
Ok, lets look at this from a typical user's standpoint ....
user gets drawing,see a neat bit of geometry they would love to use in their other drawings, they create a wblock of that geometry or export the block, or copy/paste something into another drawing. That drawing is subsequently infected.
Lets imagine for a minute that you have an xref of an infected drawing ... now the referencing drawing will become infected once the reference is loaded ... making each subsequent drawing referencing an infected item .. well .. infected ...
With the liklihood of a user copying something that they don't want to redraw, the infections have been known to extend to a huge drawing database very quickly .. akin to a virus.
This is one of the reasons many people don't like to utilize drawings found on the internet ... of course the user may receive a warning that the drawing was created by an educational version ..
It is quite incidious if you ask me
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...MINSERT it into a new drawing with the following criteria: 1 Row, 2 Columns, set the Distance between Columns to Zero. (had to look that up since it's been a while since I've done it).
The client won't be able to explode the block, therefore making modifications to it (virtually) impossible...
No quite. All you have to do is erase the MINSERT and insert a single copy of the block, then explode it.
Not if it is an anonymous block ... granted I have not looked at Plankton's code ...
Another trick I have seen is to cut/paste the drawing contents to a strange UCS setting, change the view to worldview, cut/paste to worldview, mirror the contents, create a block, scale to a weird factor, explode, create an anonymous block, scale down to the correct scale factor (reverse the previous weird scale factor), mirror the block so it has a negative scale factor but correct view, then minsert the anonymous block into WCS through the use of code.
This does several things ...
it is minserted, thus cannot be exploded
it is anonymous, thus cannot be inserted
If by chance the user does manage to insert the anonymous block, it will be a negative scale, this has been known to randomly lock up AutoCAD, thus requiring a [CTRL]+[ALT]+[DEL] to kill the app.
If the user knows this and/or AutoCAD doesn't lock up, the user will have to rescale the anonymous block to the proper scale and then explode, then unscale, then get the correct view and work backward through the process to get a usable drawing, by then they are frustrated or have some weird geometry with strange extrusion directions for the objects ... not editable in any meaningful fashion anyway ...
of course there is the additional prospect of making the anonymous block nameless thus not even insertable/editable with code ... there is a trick to it and I don't have time to explain it, but I have seen these drawings in the past.
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...MINSERT it into a new drawing with the following criteria: 1 Row, 2 Columns, set the Distance between Columns to Zero. (had to look that up since it's been a while since I've done it).
The client won't be able to explode the block, therefore making modifications to it (virtually) impossible...
No quite. All you have to do is erase the MINSERT and insert a single copy of the block, then explode it.
Not if it is an anonymous block ... granted I have not looked at Plankton's code ...
Another trick I have seen is to cut/paste the drawing contents to a strange UCS setting, change the view to worldview, cut/paste to worldview, mirror the contents, create a block, scale to a weird factor, explode, create an anonymous block, scale down to the correct scale factor (reverse the previous weird scale factor), mirror the block so it has a negative scale factor but correct view, then minsert the anonymous block into WCS through the use of code.
This does several things ...
it is minserted, thus cannot be exploded
it is anonymous, thus cannot be inserted
If by chance the user does manage to insert the anonymous block, it will be a negative scale, this has been known to randomly lock up AutoCAD, thus requiring a [CTRL]+[ALT]+[DEL] to kill the app.
If the user knows this and/or AutoCAD doesn't lock up, the user will have to rescale the anonymous block to the proper scale and then explode, then unscale, then get the correct view and work backward through the process to get a usable drawing, by then they are frustrated or have some weird geometry with strange extrusion directions for the objects ... not editable in any meaningful fashion anyway ...
of course there is the additional prospect of making the anonymous block nameless thus not even insertable/editable with code ... there is a trick to it and I don't have time to explain it, but I have seen these drawings in the past.
;;;---------------------ToStatic.lsp--------------------------------
;;; Purpose: Converts anonymous block to named static block
;;; Version:1.0
;;; Date: 2 June 2010
;;; Author: Herman Mayfarth
;;; Copyright © 20xx by Herman Mayfarth. All rights reserved.
;;; Provided "as is" and without warranty, express or implied.
;;; Use at your own risk.
;;;-----------------------------------------------------------------
(defun C:Static ( / obj)
(setq obj (vlax-ename->vla-object (car (entsel "\nPick a block reference:"))))
(vlax-invoke obj 'ConvertToStaticBlock
(substr (vlax-get-property obj 'Name) 2))
(princ)
);C:Static
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yes, I am well aware of the ease of undoing these things ... but most people will not have that expertise
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yes, I am well aware of the ease of undoing these things ... but most people will not have that expertise
Hell, I explain the same thing 50 times and they still come and ask how to do it. :realmad:
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If you've got the time... I bet (educational... no idea if actually possible) you could:
create and executable that has the dxf code stored in it, and when ran creates the simple geometry (explode a bunch before getting the dxf info), and creates reactors and such that basically disable copy/save/etc...
could allow the client to open the drawing goof with it some then close.
if you're concerned beyond exploding the heck out of your drawing, I wouldn't be sending pdfs or paper copies that can be scanned then translated into cad if I were you.
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First of all, wow what a response.
I had not thought so many people would have an opinion...
Maybe my idea is so rediculous.
Now, as for the contracts:
None of our contracts describe that I need to give away my *.dwgs. I need to provide drawings on paper and / or digital (*.pdf).
I have been thinking what my problem is, and it is mostly the dynamic blocks. For they can be extracted for own use (and I know they are). Some of my blocks were very time consuming creating them.
So in the end, and after reading this whole post, and TBH "after my temper has dropped a little"... I believe some of you are right.
First I should enter terms in the contracts that I don not send *.dwgs. And in case if I send them use the term that my blocks remain my property and may not be used for other purposes. To be shure enough I will disable all dynamic blocks (convert to normal block). Also the blocks will be bursted.
THere has never been the case that the drawing I send is coming back to work on further. I allways keep the original.
Maybe this is all I can do, in a way to keep the clients satisfied and my blocks stay with me.
Tnx again.
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Ok, lets look at this from a typical user's standpoint ....
Thanks Keith - I can see now how someone who just dismisses the Educational Alert could quite easily infect many drawings...
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...MINSERT it into a new drawing with the following criteria: 1 Row, 2 Columns, set the Distance between Columns to Zero. (had to look that up since it's been a while since I've done it).
The client won't be able to explode the block, therefore making modifications to it (virtually) impossible...
No quite. All you have to do is erase the MINSERT and insert a single copy of the block, then explode it.
Emphasis on the VIRTUALLY. I guess the typical Cad Jockey has developed skills over the years that would nullify that approach unless an anonymous block were used. This used to work for me, but haven't had to use it since the invention of the plot to pdf, and the toaster.
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First of all, wow what a response.
I had not thought so many people would have an opinion...
Maybe my idea is so rediculous.
Now, as for the contracts:
None of our contracts describe that I need to give away my *.dwgs. I need to provide drawings on paper and / or digital (*.pdf).
I have been thinking what my problem is, and it is mostly the dynamic blocks. For they can be extracted for own use (and I know they are). Some of my blocks were very time consuming creating them.
So in the end, and after reading this whole post, and TBH "after my temper has dropped a little"... I believe some of you are right.
First I should enter terms in the contracts that I don not send *.dwgs. And in case if I send them use the term that my blocks remain my property and may not be used for other purposes. To be shure enough I will disable all dynamic blocks (convert to normal block). Also the blocks will be bursted.
THere has never been the case that the drawing I send is coming back to work on further. I allways keep the original.
Maybe this is all I can do, in a way to keep the clients satisfied and my blocks stay with me.
Tnx again.
That seems to be one shortcoming of dynamic blocks.
From a customer relations P.O.V., may I suggest you phrase your standards in positive terms, something like, "Standard deliverables include <your deliverables>" rather than explicitly stating what you are *not* willing to provide.
Two reasons:
1. Positive statement of what you *will* provide always sounds better than a negative statement of what you will *not* provide (or, will provide for an additional fee).
2. Why lead the customer to the water tank, only to turn him away? In most cases he probably hasn't even thought about it. All he wants is his electronic drawings, for which he has paid. Format is irrelevant, as long as he can plot them to paper and use them to manufacture something of value (*his* deliverables). Why lead him to believe he is getting short-changed?
For the pitiful few (and they are pitiful) whom you somehow suspect are looking for a free ride on your coattails, a promise to deliver a *dwg file certainly does not imply a promise to deliver a *dwg file containing specific entities. What they get could very well be a "pile of lawn clippings," to borrow a phrase from K.C. Jones (who programmed DIMENSION entities for Autodesk long ago). Your post implies you have already thought this out, so I'll not belabor the point, except to add the following:
Your "dilemma" has implications beyond standard AutoCAD entities. Suppose, for example, you are using custom entities in your dwgs, either of your own design, or created by software which you have licensed, presumably for a (hefty) fee.
Is you customer entitled to whatever benefits are inherent in using those entities? Clearly not, as they have not paid for the privilege, while you have done so. Your cost is probably much higher if you programmed the entities yourself, because you can only recover the development cost by long usage.
Dynamic blocks strike me as being an application of the exact same principle.
So, yeah, explode the d**n things, if Richard Cranium demands a copy of your dwg.
Did he pay your electric bill last month (the bill that is so high because you stayed up late many evenings building ultra-cool dynamic blocks to make your life easier)?
That's what I thought.
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Thanks for the reply HermanM,
From a customer relations P.O.V., may I suggest you phrase your standards in positive terms, something like, "Standard deliverables include <your deliverables>" rather than explicitly stating what you are *not* willing to provide.
Well of course I need to put it like that, we are happy with each customer we have! Again, this is of personal reason; I do not want certain people to use my stuff.
Two reasons:
1. Positive statement of what you *will* provide always sounds better than a negative statement of what you will *not* provide (or, will provide for an additional fee).
2. Why lead the customer to the water tank, only to turn him away? In most cases he probably hasn't even thought about it. All he wants is his electronic drawings, for which he has paid. Format is irrelevant, as long as he can plot them to paper and use them to manufacture something of value (*his* deliverables). Why lead him to believe he is getting short-changed?
1. Yes true, 2. ALso true, but thanks for the explain.
You are right, because most customers don't even ask for *.dwg.
They are indeed satisfieds with *.pdf and actual paper drawings.
For the pitiful few (and they are pitiful) whom you somehow suspect are looking for a free ride on your coattails, a promise to deliver a *dwg file certainly does not imply a promise to deliver a *dwg file containing specific entities. What they get could very well be a "pile of lawn clippings," to borrow a phrase from K.C. Jones (who programmed DIMENSION entities for Autodesk long ago). Your post implies you have already thought this out, so I'll not belabor the point, except to add the following:
Your "dilemma" has implications beyond standard AutoCAD entities. Suppose, for example, you are using custom entities in your dwgs, either of your own design, or created by software which you have licensed, presumably for a (hefty) fee.
Is you customer entitled to whatever benefits are inherent in using those entities? Clearly not, as they have not paid for the privilege, while you have done so. Your cost is probably much higher if you programmed the entities yourself, because you can only recover the development cost by long usage.
Dynamic blocks strike me as being an application of the exact same principle.
So, yeah, explode the d**n things, if Richard Cranium demands a copy of your dwg.
Did he pay your electric bill last month (the bill that is so high because you stayed up late many evenings building ultra-cool dynamic blocks to make your life easier)?
That's what I thought.
No he did not!
I can understand most of this, and agree totally with you. This is the way I will approach it: keep it to *.pdf. If I need to send a copy of my *.dwg I will explode / burst and stuff like that. For this I will make a little routine.
WHat I did not understand: who the heck is Richard Cranium?
Wel: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=richard%20cranium
I had a good laugh about that one, I will remember him now.
Thanks again for the reply.
As for me, I think this thread is "done now" unless one of you have tips / ways to help me with the routine I want to make.
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I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but how about Express --> Text--> Explode Text? But I think it's a "cut of your nose to spite your face" function.
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use BURST to explode your blocks, that way you keep your attributes as text
And for keeping invisible attribs invisible, I'll just plug my program (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=33454.0) :lol:
Check this out...
Today was the big day: I had to send it to the guy...
In *.dwg as requested. Well I thought let's burst the blocks, at least.
That did work but the invisible attributes of a block got visible.
Oops.... after some searching I found Lee Macs code to delete the invisible attributes.
(defun c:DIA nil (c:DeleteInvisibleAttributes))
(defun c:DeleteInvisibleAttributes ( / ss ) (vl-load-com)
;; Example by Lee Mac 2010 - www.lee-mac.com
(if (ssget '((0 . "INSERT") (66 . 1)))
(progn
(vlax-for obj
(setq ss
(vla-get-ActiveSelectionSet
(vla-get-ActiveDocument (vlax-get-acad-object))
)
)
(mapcar
(function
(lambda ( attrib )
(if (eq :vlax-true (vla-get-Invisible attrib))
(vla-delete attrib)
)
)
)
(vlax-invoke obj 'GetAttributes)
)
)
(vla-delete ss)
)
)
(princ)
)
This is exactly how I wanted it, the blocks can be viewed but not used in the way I use it.
Funny thing is that the whole thing was presented to me by Lee Mac earlier but I did not get the clue. See link above...
Anyway: thanks Lee for helping me destroying a wonderful drawing hehe... :whistle:
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Happy to help :evil: