TheSwamp
CAD Forums => CAD General => Topic started by: Kerry on April 07, 2008, 10:46:12 PM
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I've noticed a lot of vent type posts here and elsewhere about AutoDesk not fixing bugs from previous versions when they release a new version.
I'm proposing a
Demonstrable Bugs and Deficiencies ( AutoCAD ) List
keep to the facts, no vitreol or whinging.
I'll see what can be done about getting this list in front of someone at AutoDesk who may care.
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Version: AutoCAD 2008-2009
Item: Attributes
Issue:
Rotation of attributed blocks programmatically causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Rotation of attributed blocks in property window causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Note:
Rotating via the rotate command behaves as expected.
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I'll see what can be done about getting this list in front of someone at Autodesk who may care.
Ready and waiting... :lol:
Seriously, if you guys want to start a bug list, I'll happily follow along. I can make no promises/guarantees/speculations on what may or may not get fixed in a future release, but I (we) am listening.
If you have a bug to post:
1. Describe clearly, step-by-step, the commands/procedure that results in the bug.
1.a. If you can't reproduce it, or at least remember exactly what you did to cause it, please don't post it until you can complete step 1.
1.b. Include hardware details if you think it might be related. OS especially.
2. Provide screenshots if appropriate.
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Version: AutoCAD 2008-2009
Item: Attributes
Issue:
Rotation of attributed blocks programmatically causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Rotation of attributed blocks in property window causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Note:
Rotating via the rotate command behaves as expected.
Keith, can you define "erratically"? Before/after screenshots?
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Excellent commendable idea, Daron. I'll be sure to try and nail down my issues more empirically, and hopefully more reproducibly. One of the hard things is the old "hang up when selecting hatch boundary" that is so elusive, but obviously present... that it's hard to definitively nail down!
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Excellent commendable idea, Daron.
Who? ;-)
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Great idea Kerry!
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Version: AutoCAD 2008-2009
Item: Attributes
Issue:
Rotation of attributed blocks programmatically causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Rotation of attributed blocks in property window causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Note:
Rotating via the rotate command behaves as expected.
Keith, can you define "erratically"? Before/after screenshots?
Kate, this is the link (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=21859.msg265873#msg265873) where I posted all of the information I was able to gather on the issue. In that same thread is a drawing (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21859.0;attach=7302) where the issue is shown exhibited. This does not affect pre-2008 versions and preliminary tests indicate it affects 2009 as well as 2008.
If you need anything else, let me know
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Excellent commendable idea, Daron.
Who? ;-)
So it ISN'T just me, then. *phew* That's good to know!
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Nah,...it's just Josh....what more can we say. :-P
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I'm sorry Kerry!
I was reading multiple threads at once, and got my wires crossed!!
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Version: AutoCAD 2008-2009
Item: Attributes
Issue:
Rotation of attributed blocks programmatically causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Rotation of attributed blocks in property window causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Note:
Rotating via the rotate command behaves as expected.
Keith, can you define "erratically"? Before/after screenshots?
Kate, this is the link (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=21859.msg265873#msg265873) where I posted all of the information I was able to gather on the issue. In that same thread is a drawing (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21859.0;attach=7302) where the issue is shown exhibited. This does not affect pre-2008 versions and preliminary tests indicate it affects 2009 as well as 2008.
If you need anything else, let me know
and here is the link (http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22055.0) for the rotation using the properties pallet.
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I'll see what can be done about getting this list in front of someone at Autodesk who may care.
Ready and waiting... :lol:
Seriously, if you guys want to start a bug list, I'll happily follow along. I can make no promises/guarantees/speculations on what may or may not get fixed in a future release, but I (we) am listening.
If you have a bug to post:
1. Describe clearly, step-by-step, the commands/procedure that results in the bug.
1.a. If you can't reproduce it, or at least remember exactly what you did to cause it, please don't post it until you can complete step 1.
1.b. Include hardware details if you think it might be related. OS especially.
2. Provide screenshots if appropriate.
There really isn't a procedure to this one, but...
The Export AutoCAD 2008 Settings doesn't work after a couple of uses. You start the program and the Admigrator.exe program appears in the MS Windows Task Mangager, but doesn't go any further. You eventually have to use the Task Manager to shut it down. While it is trying to run, in the Task Manager it shows CPU at 50 & Memory Usage at 18,112.
I tried the full uninstall & reload, didn't help. I tried the modify suggested by Autodesk, didn't help.
Intel dual Core, 2.4hz, 2gb RAM, MS Windows XP Pro w/Service Pack 2, AutoCAD LT2008 w/Service Pack.
This has happened on several of our workstations. Too bad it isn't stable, it was great when it worked.
craigr
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This bug has continued into 2009.
Slicing a solid with 3 points works in any ucs, whereas slicing a solid using a circle when the ucs is not world doesn't work and gives the bogus message "Slicing plane does not intersect the selected solid" as shown below
Select objects to slice:
Specify start point of slicing plane or [planar
Object/Surface/Zaxis/View/XY/YZ/ZX/3points] <3points>: o
Select a circle, ellipse, arc, 2D-spline, 2D-polyline to define the slicing
plane:
Specify a point on desired side or [keep Both sides] <Both>:
Slicing plane does not intersect the selected solid.
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I also despise that when invoking slice, the default is 3points;
Select objects to slice:
Specify start point of slicing plane or [planar
Object/Surface/Zaxis/View/XY/YZ/ZX/3points] <3points>:
but in all actuality, it defaults to the 2 points function. IT LIES!
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I hate that too, yes that could do with better verbage.
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Is everyone aware of Autodesk My Feedback Portal (http://myfeedback.autodesk.com/)?
They have a forum that collects bugs and wishlists.
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Is everyone aware of Autodesk My Feedback Portal (http://myfeedback.autodesk.com/)?
They have a forum that collects bugs and wishlists.
I'll try there, too.
Not too optimistic, but I will.
Where?
All that it tells me is to go to the Discussion Groups, or be active in Beta. It's obvious that being vocal on the Beta forums does nothing.
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Is everyone aware of Autodesk My Feedback Portal (http://myfeedback.autodesk.com/)?
They have a forum that collects bugs and wishlists.
Perhaps, but some people would rather vent than actually take action to get the problem fixed.
... and the attitude is infectious.
I'm particularly interested in how many real demonstrable, reproducable bugs there are that actually carry over between versions.
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You're asking for skewed results by demanding they be reproducible and demonstrable.
There's a NUMBER of defects and bugs such as the one I mention, that cause Autocad to "hang up" at unplanned intervals. By demanding demonstrable and reproducible errors, you're forcing people to conform to standards that eschew many common, known, admitted bugs that persist since I have been using Autocad since 2000i. Hatch being the biggie. Who -HASN'T- had the "pick point" method of selecting hatch boundary cause their application to lock up? No one knows exactly how it happens, specifically, so it's a bug that will persist because it's simply elusive.
*edit*
In addition, I don't think anyone here, would rather vent than see it get fixed. It's just the fact that there's apparently NO way to GET IT FIXED.
Show me one way.
You think this list will? One can hope, but you seem to think that just being able to reproduce it will get it fixed.
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Josh,
If we can't tell someone how to reproduce a defect it makes actually finding it really difficult.
Usually these defects result from a specific tasking sequence.
an analogy ;
"Doctor, I have a pain."
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Where?
All that it tells me is to go to the Discussion Groups, or be active in Beta. It's obvious that being vocal on the Beta forums does nothing.
Go to the discussion groups.
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Who -HASN'T- had the "pick point" method of selecting hatch boundary cause their application to lock up?
Raises hand ???
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Who -HASN'T- had the "pick point" method of selecting hatch boundary cause their application to lock up?
Raises hand ???
You don't count if you don't use 2D.
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Who -HASN'T- had the "pick point" method of selecting hatch boundary cause their application to lock up?
Raises hand ???
Do you work in 3D? That seems to be a good cause for this one, as the HATCH command attempts to find boundaries among objects that are not all coplanar. I had started to get rather fond of Hatch Tools, and was dismayed to discover that they are essentially unusable in C3D because of this issue.
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Who -HASN'T- had the "pick point" method of selecting hatch boundary cause their application to lock up?
Raises hand ???
Mine is raised, also.
Now, I have had it not find a boundary, but it has never locked up on me.
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Who -HASN'T- had the "pick point" method of selecting hatch boundary cause their application to lock up?
Raises hand ???
Mine is raised, also.
Now, I have had it not find a boundary, but it has never locked up on me.
Ditto.
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You're asking for skewed results by demanding they be reproducible and demonstrable.
< .. >
Simple. "This happens <insert your value for frequency > "
"When I do < this> and <this> and <this> ; sometimes < this> happens "
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Josh,
If we can't tell someone how to reproduce a defect it makes actually finding it really difficult.
Usually these defects result from a specific tasking sequence.
an analogy ;
"Doctor, I have a pain."
Kerry,
This isn't exactly true. As I have a few emails twixt myself and an autodesk employee, whom will not admit there is a problem with XDREF's in C3D even though I can demonstrate that the function worked BEFORE the service pack and fails after. I can demonstrate that it works, and that it fails, and yet there has been no fix. Worse, I sent my data, and they refused to allow me to test it with their data.
Look at the error posted about Sheet Sets, it was designed such that a single sheet COULD belong to multiple sets; it never worked as advertised, and it won't get fixed either.
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Perhaps if someone adds a "ME TOO" post we may get an idea of how widespread the ramifications of some of these deficiencies are.
... We may even be able to determine a fix, given the correct information.
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< .. > I have a few emails twixt myself and an autodesk employee, whom will not admit there is a problem with < ... >
Perhaps it's time to go a little higher up the ladder with the problem.
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I can understand how "demonstrable and reproducable" come into play. Being a developer myself, I have had the occasion to come upon some really strange occurences that are generally referred to as bugs that I would like to *think* were not due to the steps necessary to reproduce them.
In one instance I was given specific instructions about how to reproduce a bug. I followed the steps and voila, the bug indeed was shown to exist ... the problem was that the bug was caused by a user attempting to do something the program was never designed to do. In this particular case, the user was trying to open a filetype with binary null characters where they shouldn't be. In otherwords ... the file they were trying to open would NEVER exist as it must to cause the bug. In the end, I fixed the code so it would not crash when opening a file with binary null characters, but this leads me to the point that users will come up with the most creative and unimaginable methods to break a piece of software. It is those things that the development team never considered a user would try. Those things are impossible to prevent.
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< .. > It is those things that the development team never considered a user would try. Those things are impossible to prevent.
I agree,
Thats why knowing HOW (demonstrably) the user produced the error is important ... so he can be told "that's naughty"
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From what I've seen, that phenomenon of Autocad "locking up" isn't really Autocad "locking up". It's just got itself stuck in some intense calculation loop, and it's ignoring ESC. Or it's doing something on the network that it shouldn't, and dragging its heels because of that. If left alone, it usually finishes what it's doing, eventually. But it can take long enough that the user's patience runs out first, because there's no way of knowing if it really will ever finish what it's doing, or how long it will take.
On better hardware, it's easier to let it run and wait for it to finish. Having maximum RAM and fast disk drives helps a lot.
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In this particular case, the user was trying to open a filetype with binary null characters where they shouldn't be. In otherwords ... the file they were trying to open would NEVER exist as it must to cause the bug. In the end, I fixed the code so it would not crash when opening a file with binary null characters, but this leads me to the point that users will come up with the most creative and unimaginable methods to break a piece of software. It is those things that the development team never considered a user would try. Those things are impossible to prevent.
I wouldn't consider that example something out-of-line, and would count it as a valid bug.
It is very easy for a user to accidentally click on the wrong file. I would hazard that a program should not crash simply because the user accidentally clicked on the wrong file, but should be able to detect a problem reading the file, and handle it gracefully.
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Except that the files in that particular program were generated automatically ... the program does not write null characters, in fact it explicitly filtered them out prior to writing the file.
The rough steps to recreate were:
Run the program on a set of data, with the program still open, minimize and browse to the temp file in the temp folder, open the temp file in a binary editor, change some values to null "00", save the file. Restore original application window, select the edited file name from a list of files in the listbox, click process and the program generates a runtime error.
Runtime error was due to an invalid data segment ... when importing data as strings, it is generally treated as terminated when null is found (i.e. null terminated string) .. the data segment thus was not filled as it should have been, thus an operation on the data could not be performed, and then you have the cascading effect of a failure. Incidently the temp file is deleted automatically when the program closes. So, the error was not demonstable so far as a programmatic error, it was demonstrable so far as user error.
It is akin to someone changing the header value in a DWG file to reflect an earlier(or later) version, then wondering why AutoCAD crashes when it tries to open it ... DUMMY .. DON'T EDIT THE DWG FILES WITH A BINARY EDITOR (or text for that matter)
Incidently, I think for it to be considered a bug, it must be more than demonstrable and reproducable .. I think it must also happen in the course of using the software in the manner one should reasonably expect it to operate.
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From what I've seen, that phenomenon of Autocad "locking up" isn't really Autocad "locking up". It's just got itself stuck in some intense calculation loop, and it's ignoring ESC. Or it's doing something on the network that it shouldn't, and dragging its heels because of that. If left alone, it usually finishes what it's doing, eventually.
I don't buy it because I've deliberately left a drawing open while "locked up" over the entire weekend, worked on a different computer, and came back monday to find no change in state.
That's a bug, sorry.
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Bug:
Helix Command
Doesn't actually draw a true helix.
Draw a helix and measure the points from mid, end, quadrant... to center point. Should always be 1/2 what you entered for diameter. Consistently displays a value less than it should.
In plan view, the helical turns should appear as a circle, but actually display consistently inaccurately place revolutions, usually slightly shifting to the positive X direction, though I haven't checked if that's always the direction, but every helix I've drawn has been slanted, like the Tower of Pisa, for example.
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Bug: (status as 'bug' may be debatable, but I see it as such)
When editing table cells, when you have a cell selected but not active to content editing... you cannot double-click to activate the cell. One would have to hit 'esc' to deselect the table in it's entirety, then double click the cell. This behavior seems to be undesirable given the purpose of the double click's purpose.
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Bug:
Helix Command
Doesn't actually draw a true helix.
Draw a helix and measure the points from mid, end, quadrant... to center point. Should always be 1/2 what you entered for diameter. Consistently displays a value less than it should.
In plan view, the helical turns should appear as a circle, but actually display consistently inaccurately place revolutions, usually slightly shifting to the positive X direction, though I haven't checked if that's always the direction, but every helix I've drawn has been slanted, like the Tower of Pisa, for example.
Try drawing them slower; you are inducing distortion due to torque spin of the helix. If you draw them any faster they will fly apart on you entirely.
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Bug:
Helix Command
Try drawing them slower; you are inducing distortion due to torque spin of the helix. If you draw them any faster they will fly apart on you entirely.
:-D
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Bug: (status as 'bug' may be debatable, but I see it as such)
When editing table cells, when you have a cell selected but not active to content editing... you cannot double-click to activate the cell. One would have to hit 'esc' to deselect the table in it's entirety, then double click the cell. This behavior seems to be undesirable given the purpose of the double click's purpose.
I can...what version? You can also just start typing if you want to overwrite the cell's contents.
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Bug: (status as 'bug' may be debatable, but I see it as such)
When editing table cells, when you have a cell selected but not active to content editing... you cannot double-click to activate the cell. One would have to hit 'esc' to deselect the table in it's entirety, then double click the cell. This behavior seems to be undesirable given the purpose of the double click's purpose.
I can...what version? You can also just start typing if you want to overwrite the cell's contents.
It's been happening for me since 2006 at least.
Let me make sure I'm clear:
1) Select table cell so that only one cell is active. It will have the 4 grips at midpoint of each side, and the highlighted perimeter.
2) Double click inside the cell.
3?) It returns the following for me:
Command: Specify opposite corner:
Invalid window specification.
Command: Specify opposite corner:
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Great idea, Kerry! Hopefully some of the bugs we came up do get fixed in the near future. This is a demonstrable and reproducible bug: http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22142.msg266998#msg266998. I'm really upset about this because we have a 600+ sheets project that use lots of fields in attributes. Based on the fact this bug hasn't been reported (guessing) / fixed, I'm guessing either not that many people are using SSM, or they don't set attributes' width factor to values other than 1 (Kerry found out this bug only happens when attribute width factor is not set to 1) , or they don't feel like reporting bugs to Autodesk for whatever reasons...
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Let me make sure I'm clear:
1) Select table cell so that only one cell is active. It will have the 4 grips at midpoint of each side, and the highlighted perimeter.
2) Double click inside the cell.
3?) It returns the following for me:
Command: Specify opposite corner:
Invalid window specification.
Command: Specify opposite corner:
It puts me into the cell. I'm running 2009, OOTB, and don't have any other versions I can test at the moment. Have you customized any double-click actions?
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Let me make sure I'm clear:
1) Select table cell so that only one cell is active. It will have the 4 grips at midpoint of each side, and the highlighted perimeter.
2) Double click inside the cell.
3?) It returns the following for me:
Command: Specify opposite corner:
Invalid window specification.
Command: Specify opposite corner:
It puts me into the cell. I'm running 2009, OOTB, and don't have any other versions I can test at the moment. Have you customized any double-click actions?
Man... this is weird. I'll check, but I don't ever remember customizing double-click actions for anything like this, let alone tables.
Nope, just checked the CUI... no double-click customizations or overrides. I used the migration tool from 2007-08, and then from 08-09 (though did a repair installation on 09, but doubt that would affect user customizations)
I've had the problem since 06 for sure, and since I didn't use the migration tool from 06-07, if it was a problem with any customizations, I would think the carrying-over would stop there.
I'm perplexed. I'm going to go check other users' computers here. I'm the only one on 2009, so their results would apply to 08 and I think one still on 07.
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Well dang, Kate, you got me.
The two users I described the issue to, verbally agreed with me, and I just believed 'em. They're the more CAD adept in the office so I took their word for it. I went and asked them to show me, this time, and they were not clear on my instructions, and were mistaken in what I was after.
Theirs work just as expected. Even when a cell is highlighted, it enters into the cell to bring up the blinking text cursor.
I don't get it. *scratches head*
Maybe at some point, I'll have to compare double-click actions, although right now, the only double-click action I see for "tables" is the one that opens the properties window. I don't see how to customize the actual table cell itself. Maybe I'd have to create a new one altogether, to get the function I desire.
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Using QSelect, and selecting xref, the listing of Properties is not able to show Name or other fileds below. We jumped from 2006 [no issue] to 2008, so I am not sure if 2007 was already buggy! :pissed:
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Using QSelect, and selecting xref, the listing of Properties is not able to show Name or other fileds below. We jumped from 2006 [no issue] to 2008, so I am not sure if 2007 was already buggy! :pissed:
Are you using Vanilla? I'm running MEP '08 and it works fine, and if I recall, it worked in ABS '07 and LDT '07.
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I know something that would make me very happy is if I could reliably Publish from the Sheet Set Manager. It seems like I never had a problem with this in 2006, and ever since, it's been a nightmare. It's reached the point where I dread hitting that Publish button. I've figured out lots of tricks that help, like moving the order of layout tabs around to fix the Uninitialized Layout problem, and setting PUBLISHCOLLATE to 0, etc. But it can be a real nightmare just trying to publish a sheet set.
I just now wanted to create a DWF of one of our old jobs. After fighting with it for an hour, with crash after crash containing no error messages whatsoever, I finally gave up, and plotted each page to a DWF individually. When I plot a page to DWF, it takes maybe 2 seconds. Publish spins for 30 seconds to a minute, then I hear a bunch of dings, and the background Publish thread crashes. Of course, now I have five separate DWFs, and as far as I know, there is no way to combine multiple DWFs into a single DWF. So I guess now I'll plot each DWF to a PDF, then use Adobe PDF to create a single PDF containing all five pages. That will work for what I want.
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and as far as I know, there is no way to combine multiple DWFs into a single DWF.
Sinc, I remember being able to drag & drop multiple DWFs in Autodesk Design Review.
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Really? It never occurred to me to try drag-n-drop - I kept looking for some menu command to append or import another file, or combine open files, or select a set of DWFs to combine... stuff like that. It didn't occur to me that I needed to open Explorer, browse to the directory containing the DWFs, and then drag-n-drop...
Oh well. The task at hand is done now. I'll give that a try next time.
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Using QSelect, and selecting xref, the listing of Properties is not able to show Name or other fileds below. We jumped from 2006 [no issue] to 2008, so I am not sure if 2007 was already buggy! :pissed:
Are you using Vanilla? I'm running MEP '08 and it works fine, and if I recall, it worked in ABS '07 and LDT '07.
Ciao Matt,
Oops didn't phrase it well, did I? What I meant was if you click on Name... do you get a value? 20 licences on a site office. different hardware, same issue!
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It didn't occur to me that I needed to open Explorer, browse to the directory containing the DWFs, and then drag-n-drop...
That's how it works. I just tried it again. I had been looking for menus or toolbars just like you did before I accidentally found out how it works.
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haven't checked this one recently but in 2004 if you had a block with multiple attributes... if you made some of the attributes invisible (through code) then when trying to edit the block, invisible attributes weren't available to edit adn the remainign attributes had the prompts order messed up.
This meant that you entered a value for prompt A and the value actually appeared in attribute, C, D or E or whatever.
If you are using methods like this to create BoM's it can really screw the whole thing up, but when I reported it to Adesk, they didn't consider it important
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< .. >
This meant that you entered a value for prompt A and the value actually appeared in attribute, C, D or E or whatever.
If you are using methods like this to create BoM's it can really screw the whole thing up, but when I reported it to Adesk, they didn't consider it important
Was that the actual quote ?
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When using Hidden shademode (the one that pays attention to color tables) Tangential lines are displayed, which contrasts to the idea of a Hidden shademode:
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=15776.0
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All visual styles introduced in 2007 ignore any plot styles set. Even the ones that are just linework, and involve no shading.
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< .. >
This meant that you entered a value for prompt A and the value actually appeared in attribute, C, D or E or whatever.
If you are using methods like this to create BoM's it can really screw the whole thing up, but when I reported it to Adesk, they didn't consider it important
Was that the actual quote ?
Pretty much word for word.. sort of.
They said they could reproduce it but it wasn't considered a major enough issue to consider a hotfix or bug fix
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Let me make sure I'm clear:
1) Select table cell so that only one cell is active. It will have the 4 grips at midpoint of each side, and the highlighted perimeter.
2) Double click inside the cell.
3?) It returns the following for me:
Command: Specify opposite corner:
Invalid window specification.
Command: Specify opposite corner:
It puts me into the cell. I'm running 2009, OOTB, and don't have any other versions I can test at the moment. Have you customized any double-click actions?
Ok, I'm not ready to totally put this one to rest now. Though the few other computers I tried it on within our company didn't do it.. (theirs did as you report) I was just helping a user with the firm down the hall with table formatting, and I noticed he was having the same problem as me. I asked him to let me see his mouse for a second, to verify I was seeing what I thought I saw... and lo and behold, in his 2008 install of Electrical running as plain ACAD, his double click cell-entry would not work, unless the table was totally deselected.
I know he has no customizations other than a couple toolbars for inserting blocks. He's a very basic user, and the company has little in the way of standard customizations, and what they DO have, is just toolbars and two extra menus. They don't even use the CUI, so there's no double-click funkiness going on (I checked to verify, he'd never even seen the CUI before)
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Let me make sure I'm clear:
1) Select table cell so that only one cell is active. It will have the 4 grips at midpoint of each side, and the highlighted perimeter.
2) Double click inside the cell.
3?) It returns the following for me:
Command: Specify opposite corner:
Invalid window specification.
Command: Specify opposite corner:
It puts me into the cell. I'm running 2009, OOTB, and don't have any other versions I can test at the moment. Have you customized any double-click actions?
Ok, I'm not ready to totally put this one to rest now. Though the few other computers I tried it on within our company didn't do it.. (theirs did as you report) I was just helping a user with the firm down the hall with table formatting, and I noticed he was having the same problem as me. I asked him to let me see his mouse for a second, to verify I was seeing what I thought I saw... and lo and behold, in his 2008 install of Electrical running as plain ACAD, his double click cell-entry would not work, unless the table was totally deselected.
I know he has no customizations other than a couple toolbars for inserting blocks. He's a very basic user, and the company has little in the way of standard customizations, and what they DO have, is just toolbars and two extra menus. They don't even use the CUI, so there's no double-click funkiness going on (I checked to verify, he'd never even seen the CUI before)
I just tried it on my '08 Electrical running as plain Acad, and it worked. No custom stuff, as I have never ran it like this before.
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Yea, I can't even get it to act the same on identical setups! It's seemingly random. The boss's comp with 08 behaves like mine, and he expressed similar frustration about the issue, and another owner has the exact same setup (no one but me customizes their setup aside from toggling/placing toolbars) and behaves as it should (as Kate, and you, T.Willey, described.
Simply... confusing.
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This appears to be a new bug so I'm not sure if this is the right place to post it (Kerry?)
Find and replace could be used as afind only in 2008, ie type a search, hit zoom to and close. Now you are zoomed to the text. If you try this in 2008 you will be back to where you started the search.
The command has added some good stuff but seems to have taken away the ability to find stacked fractions.
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Bryco,
I think new bugs/deficiencies would be fine ... just indicate which version it applies to ( as you have) ;-)
I started the thread with the idea of documenting the bugs that have carried over from previous versions [ in a format that could be submitted to AutoDesk]
After 5 pages the actual list seems pretty small so we may as well flesh it out.
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SMALL?
What were you hoping for?!
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I thought there would be a lot considering the whinging I was hearing.
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I thought there would be a lot considering the whinging I was hearing.
Let the record show that my only problem with 2008 and 2009 is with the attribute issue I posted. I have not found any other bugs during my day to day work.
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As a Civil-3D user, I have a hard time seeing the bugs in the core product. Compared to C3D, the problems in the core product just seem so insignificant... :-(
(...except for that plotting one... I would REALLY like to be able to just plot a sheet set, without the dread...)
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http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22395.msg269583 - msg269583
---Rotation of attributed blocks programmatically causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
Rotation of attributed blocks in property window causes the attributes' rotation to behave erratically.
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22395.msg269870 - msg269870
Slicing bug does not allow proper function of slice command.
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22395.msg269877 - msg269877
Minor error in slice command (very minor)
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22395.msg269994 - msg269994
Helix command does not actually draw a helix.
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22395.msg270617 - msg270617
Improper display of edge lines includes tangential lines.
http://www.theswamp.org/index.php?topic=22395.msg270618 - msg270618
When the newer visual styles (since 07) are used, linework does not obey plot styles.
I guess not being able to produce functional construction drawings from a model is insignificant, then?
It seems to me that your whole point of the thread was not to document the errors but rather to shove a finger in the face of the people voicing complaints as if they have nothing to complain about. If you have something productive to add, great, but simply looking at all these people's posts and scoffing at them saying that there hasn't been anything of substance posted is just plain rude.
Also, it's not like this thread is very old. Give some people time to remember the bugs. I know I, for one, tend not to think of them because I've become so accustomed to working around them, these workarounds seem as first nature, rather than a bump in the road. I'm used to having to slow to a crawl for the speed bumps, that I forget they're there, I guess.
I have been on the same 2D project for the duration of this thread, and for the most part doing redlines, and haven't touched a decent bit of the more intense 2D drawing, and no 3D modeling at all so far. I'm sure I'll stumble upon more gems to share.
You're asking for skewed results by demanding they be reproducible and demonstrable.
< .. >
Simple. "This happens <insert your value for frequency > "
"When I do < this> and <this> and <this> ; sometimes < this> happens "
If you would have paid attention to the entire post, and not taken one statement out of context only to belittle my intelligence, you would have gotten the point. The point is, that not all bugs are consistent.
Sure, some people here don't experience the hatch boundary selection, but I made a point to ask a few other CAD managers at other companies. Not one person I've talked to in person has NOT experienced Autocad hanging up when using 'pick a point' method of obtaining a hatch boundary. Everyone in my company has had the problem. Everyone in the other company in the building. Everyone in three associated mechanical, electrical, and civil firms experience it. Confirmed that it happens with an architectural firm we are dealing with. Of the surveyed answers, I and only one other company use 3D tools. Software varies from plain CAD, to ADT, to Autocad Electrical, to simple OOTB no customization vanilla, to heavily customized vanilla...
Here, Kerry, if it makes you feel better:
Autocad hangs up sporadically. When I do "pick point" method of selecting hatch boundary sometimes Autocad locks up into a non-responsive mode. This can not be consistently linked to any other behavior, geometry, commands, etc.
Was that the proper format?
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Additional bug that's carried over into 2009 from years past:
When opening block editor and issuing certain commands (haven't pinned down exactly what command it is, but it's at least narrowed down to, and confirmed by others on various boards to the block editor) the model/paper button on the lower right of the status bar disappears when you exit the block editor, requiring the user to manually add it back to being displayed.
I had hoped that one would get fixed by now, but I guess not. That one gets particularly annoying.
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Whoa there Josh. Don't forget your lunch again, OK? You seem to get testy without food. :-)
Nowhere did KB "scoff" at others, he merely pointed out that out of 5 pages of responses there were very few that met the criteria of the thread's title. I know, you've said you don't like the criteria, but as has been already said, the programmers cannot correct a bug if they cannot reproduce it. You quoted 6 items, to me that IS very few.
I know Kerry, and I know that he started this thread with full intentions of submitting the items we post to someone who MAY be able to get them resolved. The more detailed information that can be given about any one of these items can only help to solve the problem. Getting snooty with someone genuinely wanting to help does nothing. In reference to Kerry's mention of "whinging", I'm sure that was NOT in reference to those posts in this thread. It was in reference to the numerous other posts, here at the Swamp and many other ACAD related sites, that proclaim "I found a bug!" or "This isn't working right", etc.
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Then maybe I did take some of his posts the wrong way, but I'm not totally convinced he wasn't referring to theswamp. That could well be a misunderstanding. I just don't take too kindly to being called a whiner when I just want my software to work right.
Yes, so far there are 6 posts. I don't find those to be miniscule at all. The other bug posted here, that wasn't directly linkable, was in regards to not being able to plot properly using publish.
So now we have items being drawn that aren't true to form, models that don't create proper linework, textual annotation that doesn't behave properly when modified, and inability to use what was supposed to be a godsend for plotting.
That pretty much covers all the bases of creating a drawing, so forgive me if I don't see it as very minor.
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But see, he didn't say the issues posted were minor. All he said was that there weren't MANY at all.
Going back to the Hatch by pick-point. I was really curious about this so I went in search of others asking/posting about it. I searched all of the Autocad newsgroups at Autodesk, the Autodesk Knowledge base, and did a Google search. There was only one hit (http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?p=137901)that related to the issue you described. Have you submitted a bug report to Autodesk about it? Have any of the others that you know having this problem done so? It just seems to me that if this is such a big deal that there would be at least a handful of others reporting it. Please know that I am not discounting what you've reported, I'm just befuddled why it's just a few of you that have seen this problem. Have you all worked on the same drawings at one time or another? Maybe all of you are using the same lisp(s) and something in them is causing it? Possibly that humid LA air has shorted out some RAM that is only used occassionally... sorry, there are just too many "what about"'s that can be listed without some form of duplicatable behaviour.
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lol, maybe it is the air!
I've seen probably in the manner of 2-3 dozen conversations about it in my time on the adesk forums, as well as a couple agreeing people here. I'm actually surprised at the number of disagreeing sentiments, to be honest! I've never seen this many "not me...'s" yet, on the topic. Usually a bunch of "OH I HATE THAT!" type posts.
Usually not the beginning topic, so it may be hard to find, I don't know.
I have discussed it with a couple autodesk employees, sent them drawings, but obviously all I ever get is "Sorry, can't replicate the problem" which is probably what led me to be edgy on the topic... I've BEEN dealing with replies of "Sorry, can't replicate it, so I'm going to ignore you now" so to hear it again is just a blood boiler.
I mean, look at it from my side. A bug that constantly rears it's head, even on fresh, clean, undefiled installs with any customization (some of my users prefer the simpler life and fear change, and is ok since they're engineers first) and I basically the idea that Autodesk has designed the perfect bug (even if inadvertently). One that hides and only bites now and then... just often enough to irritate you, but hides enough that they can not bother fixing it, under the guise of "Unable to replicate".
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Josh,
Do you have an incident/Report number for this, or a record of the person you spoke to, and the date of the report ?
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< .. >
I mean, look at it from my side. A bug that constantly rears it's head, even on fresh, clean, undefiled installs with any customization < .. >
If this is the case, it is likely to be something unique to your setup, otherwise it would be more widely reported.
I'm not 'picking' on you, but I'll remind you that there are several bug categories .. your's appears to be a special case, unique to a set of circumstances. That kind is hard to find unless a differentiation of the circumstances if possible.
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I have had this hatch problem on ADT3.3. It happened if one or more of the boundaries was part of an XREF but not everytime. It caused such a problem that I no longer use the pick point option unless I am sure that an XREF is not involved. In fact most people in my workplace don't use the pick pont method for hatching for just that reason. I just tried to reproduce it, to no avail, but I did get some long delays while AutoCAD was analyzing everything visible. Their are differences from the last time I had it happen. My puter is much better and our network has been upgraded. MEP2008 was much faster than ADT3.3 when I picked the same points in the same files.
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... all I ever get is "Sorry, can't replicate the problem" which is probably what led me to be edgy on the topic... I've BEEN dealing with replies of "Sorry, can't replicate it, so I'm going to ignore you now" so to hear it again is just a blood boiler.
Just a question. How do you expect someone to fix a problem they can not replicate??
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< .. >
I mean, look at it from my side. A bug that constantly rears it's head, even on fresh, clean, undefiled installs with any customization < .. >
If this is the case, it is likely to be something unique to your setup, otherwise it would be more widely reported.
I'm not 'picking' on you, but I'll remind you that there are several bug categories .. your's appears to be a special case, unique to a set of circumstances. That kind is hard to find unless a differentiation of the circumstances if possible.
Dude.
Did you not see the post where I explained the vast number of users reporting their agreement to me? That pretty much negates your statement.
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... all I ever get is "Sorry, can't replicate the problem" which is probably what led me to be edgy on the topic... I've BEEN dealing with replies of "Sorry, can't replicate it, so I'm going to ignore you now" so to hear it again is just a blood boiler.
Just a question. How do you expect someone to fix a problem they can not replicate??
I didn't say I expected a magic fix. I guess I wasn't clear, but my main frustration was that they spend all of 5 minutes (I got an email back in 10 minutes) trying, then give up.
You know what I do expect? I expect to be able to use my software without losing work, time, efficiency, production. Now I understand there are exceptions. One thing I also expect is to NOT have to be the one to do THEIR JOB and be the troubleshooter for THEM. I don't get paid to work on THEIR SOFTWARE!!
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I have had this hatch problem on ADT3.3. It happened if one or more of the boundaries was part of an XREF but not everytime. It caused such a problem that I no longer use the pick point option unless I am sure that an XREF is not involved. In fact most people in my workplace don't use the pick pont method for hatching for just that reason. I just tried to reproduce it, to no avail, but I did get some long delays while AutoCAD was analyzing everything visible. Their are differences from the last time I had it happen. My puter is much better and our network has been upgraded. MEP2008 was much faster than ADT3.3 when I picked the same points in the same files.
I had seen suggestions that echo similar sentiments, but unfortunately, a couple of the people I reported the incident from stated that they don't use XREFs (hey, not my company, not my problem! ;) ) and I kept an eye out since then, and it happens on drawings, for me, where the only xref is in paperspace (when hatching in model space) and it's just the title block containing very minimal amount of geometry. So I'm not sure how much of that is the prob.
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I guess the whole process of bug reporting gets under my skin is the fact that I DONT HAVE THE TIME, nor do I get PAID to find out what THEIR problem is.
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Josh,
Do you have an incident/Report number for this, or a record of the person you spoke to, and the date of the report ?
It as just a "private" conversation taken outside the adesk forums, and no I don't remember who it was, unfortunately, nor the date. I did a quick search of my Outlook Inbox, and couldn't find the conversation. Chances are I deleted it. I keep 99% of my emails since I was hired, but it's usually only the stuff between coworkers, clients, and other similar parties.
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I have one for you:
Invoke a command that has a list of options, such as draworder. When done, hit enter to invoke it again. It will not show the items and will hang until you either select the screen or roll the mouse wheel or something. I've noticed this since the .NET was introduced. Often, and I know there's an issue with ACA2008 and draworder in general, but if I try to use the keyboard and the list wasn't up, it will crash autocad. As for hardware, etc. I've had this problem on multiple computers, so it's pretty persistent. Also, I have dynamic input enabled, but I'm sure that this is the problem.
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... all I ever get is "Sorry, can't replicate the problem" which is probably what led me to be edgy on the topic... I've BEEN dealing with replies of "Sorry, can't replicate it, so I'm going to ignore you now" so to hear it again is just a blood boiler.
Just a question. How do you expect someone to fix a problem they can not replicate??
I didn't say I expected a magic fix. I guess I wasn't clear, but my main frustration was that they spend all of 5 minutes (I got an email back in 10 minutes) trying, then give up.
How many times should a troubleshooter try the same thing (that does not replicate your problem) before he so states? You tell me its broken, I try it, it works for me, what next?
You know what I do expect? I expect to be able to use my software without losing work, time, efficiency, production.
I do so every day, and so do the several hundred designers working here
One thing I also expect is to NOT have to be the one to do THEIR JOB and be the troubleshooter for THEM. I don't get paid to work on THEIR SOFTWARE!!
Every user is a trouble shooter because every user is a trouble maker to a large degree (no slight intended). What works just fine on my hardware, my setup, my customizations, may not work at all on your hardware. I can not possibly guess at all the different hardware configurations possible, so what can I do as a troubleshooter to solve a problem I can not replicate? I troubleshoot issues for about five hundred users in this office, and another five or six hundred scattered in three other offices. I've made sure that my machine is the lowest functioning machine in the organization, that way if it works on my machine, its probably NOT a resource issue. But beyond that, there is little I can do from here to help with an issue I can not replicate on my machine.
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Demonstrable Bugs and Deficiencies List
keep to the facts, no vitreol or whinging.
I'll see what can be done about getting this list in front of someone at AutoDesk who may care.
I'm closing this thread.
I can see from posts here and at the AutoDesk Discussion Group that some people are more interested in venting than in learning how to provide an intelligently produced bug report.